CHICAGO | The 78 Site

[aaron38]

Originally Posted by sentinel

That stadium design is so underwhelming, like a converted former factory that’s been on the site for 95 years. That’s not a compliment. Other cities in North America build sleek, contemporary, unique looking statement stadia. Designers in Chicago still adhere to a dated permutation of Miesian copy of a copy of a copy…there is no delight in this structure; it is dour, foreboding and unwelcoming.

I've rapidly soured on the concept of "unique". What's unwelcoming about this stadium? It's a rectangular building around a rectangular field. At least it looks like it was designed by an adult.

Would you rather have Audi Field (2018) that looks like an 8 year old built it out of Legos?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_F...Looking_SW.jpg

How about Shell Energy Stadium (2012), designed by someone who watched The Running Man a few too many times?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shell_...c_Entrance.jpg

I looked for sleek contemporary soccer stadiums, didn't find any.

[southoftheloop]

The design is satisfying and very much "Chicago"—but wish it did a bit more to capitalize on the prime-time site by opening up to either the river or the skyline view

[swipyfox]

Not a fan of how auto centric this development is

[OhioGuy]

Originally Posted by southoftheloop

The design is satisfying and very much "Chicago"—but wish it did a bit more to capitalize on the prime-time site by opening up to either the river or the skyline view

Yeah, this is my main criticism. I wish it took advantage of its location by providing more of a skyline view. I would assume the closed in box helps with creating a louder stadium environment compared to one that’s more open where the sound can more easily escape, but I’d still like to see more of the city from inside the stadium. Overall the design is fine - not groundbreaking but not bad. Like others noted, this will probably age better than some flashy modernist stadium that looks unique now but dated in 10-15 years.

[2PRUROCKS!]

I like the overall site design especially along the river. The connection to the east by the Metra tracks could be better but I understand the immense cost and challenge.

The stadium design isn't awful but this is an opportunity to do better. I think this fake warehouse/industrial aesthetic is the 2020's version of late 1990 to early 2000's POMO. I think this will be a lot like the United Center, bland and forgettable architecture that functions well.

I wish the design did more to relate to it's surroundings and take advantage of it's unique location by the river and skyline views with architecture that looked to to future instead of the past.

Here are some example of what I think are more promising designs:

https://www.gensler.com/projects/nor...concept-design

https://www.constructionspecifier.co...o-mls-stadium/

https://www.hok.com/news/2019-04/mls...tadium-design/

[nomarandlee]

Originally Posted by 2PRUROCKS!

I like the overall site design especially along the river. The connection to the east by the Metra tracks could be better but I understand the immense cost and challenge.

The stadium design isn't awful but this is an opportunity to do better. I think this fake warehouse/industrial aesthetic is the 2020's version of late 1990 to early 2000's POMO. I think this will be a lot like the United Center, bland and forgettable architecture that functions well.

I wish the design did more to relate to it's surroundings and take advantage of it's unique location by the river and skyline views with architecture that looked to to future instead of the past.

Here are some example of what I think are more promising designs:

https://www.gensler.com/projects/nor...concept-design

https://www.constructionspecifier.co...o-mls-stadium/

https://www.hok.com/news/2019-04/mls...tadium-design/

Agree with that overall assessment. I especially like the HOK (third) design concept in St. Louis that you listed.

[sentinel]

Originally Posted by 2PRUROCKS!

I like the overall site design especially along the river. The connection to the east by the Metra tracks could be better but I understand the immense cost and challenge.

The stadium design isn't awful but this is an opportunity to do better. I think this fake warehouse/industrial aesthetic is the 2020's version of late 1990 to early 2000's POMO. I think this will be a lot like the United Center, bland and forgettable architecture that functions well.

I wish the design did more to relate to it's surroundings and take advantage of it's unique location by the river and skyline views with architecture that looked to to future instead of the past.

Here are some example of what I think are more promising designs:

https://www.gensler.com/projects/nor...concept-design

https://www.constructionspecifier.co...o-mls-stadium/

https://www.hok.com/news/2019-04/mls...tadium-design/

See, all three of these examples are superior to what the Fire is proposing.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by sentinel

See, all three of these examples are superior to what the Fire is proposing.

I fully disagree.

I'd much rather have "the firehouse" as currently proposed than any of those three.

But I'm HEAVILY biased. McCormick Lakeside is one of my favorite buildings. Any structure with a deeply cantilevered black truss roof is gonna steal my heart.

[sentinel]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

I fully disagree.

I'd much rather have "the firehouse" as currently proposed than any of those three.

But I'm HEAVILY biased. McCormick Lakeside is one of my favorite buildings. Any structure with a deeply cantilevered black truss roof is gonna steal my heart.

Why should it resemble an existing structure? Especially when there’s no relationship, other than “a Chicago building resembling another Chicago building?”

[OrdoSeclorum]

Originally Posted by sentinel

See, all three of these examples are superior to what the Fire is proposing.

I agree that those three proposals look better.... from a helicopter!

The First stadium you can walk up right next to it. North Carolinas looks pretty nice to drive around. And the one in Ohio certainly looks interesting. But why? Is the goal to make is interesting? That big curved facade isn't the building. It's something that's been hung on to the building. It looks like you need to climb like 80 steps to get into it. And I like the look of the St Louis one better. But it also looks like you need to climb up into it and then you can walk around it on an elevated plaza before you can enter.

If your goal is to keep people inside buying hot dogs until they have to trek to a parking garage, those three all seem pretty good. If you want to anchor an area, then I'll take the Fire's.

[cloudbod]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

McCormick Lakeside is one of my favorite buildings. Any structure with a deeply cantilevered black truss roof is gonna steal my heart.

Yup, that's where I'm at with this too. I imagine everything about this plan will change and evolve (hopefully with a greater transit component, better connections, more open skyline view, etc) but I hope the aesthetic of the stadium doesn't change. Black trusses are Chicago-design incarnate-- powerful, economical, industrial, efficient, and intriguingly detailed.

Futuristic designs are often dependent on being kept really clean, shiny and white, which'll be really difficult at this site due to all the diesel rail and road particulate. But this design will only look better as it accumulates grime

[r18tdi]

Animation posted to Gensler's Instagram

[VKChaz]

Originally Posted by Randomguy34

An on-site CTA or Metra stop can always be built later, so I'm not stressed. Plus the green space on the southern end of the site leaves open the possibility of realigning the St. Charles Airline ROW. Stadium design is meh unfortunately. The highrises look great, plus I love how clustered they are!

My only major complaint is the site access. There are limited ways to enter and exit, so any potential bus routes can only use Wells St. It'll be impossible to connect the rest of the site to Clark without bury the Metra tracks, which of course will cost $$$. Even burying the tracks will only do so much cause Dearborn Homes prevents east-west access. Worried that on non-games days, the area will feel like Lakeshore East.

LSE feels like a good comparison. Though even it is adjacent to office workers for some weekday traffic. The green space might get some use by people in the immediate area, but I expect this to feel like an island most of the time. An activated Clark Street would have generated pedestrian traffic and drawn in people. Not moving the tracks is a big miss.
The city could use more event/festival space, even for small private ones. I believe the Tribune site, for example, had hosted events in recent years. The combination stadium and green space might prove useful as a venue.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by sentinel

Why should it resemble an existing structure?

I never said anything about "should".

I was just expressing my opinion that I love the design of "the firehouse", and some of my reasoning behind it.

If you have a different opinion, that's ok.

Originally Posted by r18tdi

Animation posted to Gensler's Instagram

NICE!

now I love it even more!

[JK47]

Originally Posted by sentinel

See, all three of these examples are superior to what the Fire is proposing.

No, they objectively aren't. For one, those are charitable renderings. The St. Louis one is significantly snazzier than what they actually built. Which looks fine, but it's basically exposed metal, a cantilevered roof, and concrete. Nothing to really WOW the observer. The St. Louis stadium is fine, solid, but not a statement piece and certainly not superior to the proposed Fire stadium.

[Chi-Sky21]

Quit your woah is me on the design. It is not bad at all. Maybe a bit shortsighted on capacity, but if this is the catalyst for this entire area to develop and it looks like that then so what.

[aaron38]

Originally Posted by sentinel

See, all three of these examples are superior to what the Fire is proposing.

https://www.gensler.com/projects/nor...concept-design
Not a building, it's a Cirq du Soleil show

https://www.constructionspecifier.co...o-mls-stadium/
Not a building, it's a birds nest on top of a podium

https://www.hok.com/news/2019-04/mls...tadium-design/
Not a building, it's a circus tent.

I'm not a fan of soccer, but why would I want it to look like the Fire play in a tent?

[sentinel]

I stand by my opinion, and no amount of bullying will change it.

[ardecila]

Yeah that St Louis stadium is *excellent*. Part of it is context - it sits in a warehouse district of gorgeous old brick buildings, so they went clean and white to draw a contrast. They made the stadium permeable, with gates and peekaboo views to the pitch on all four sides. Even the loading dock was cleverly concealed underground, with an access ramp on the neighboring block so there really is no "bad side" or "back side". It's not Renzo Piano or BIG, but it's extremely thoughtful and elegant in its context.

For Chicago, I don't know why a self-proclaimed "capital of architecture" is going so conservative and making this look like a boring West Loop midrise. I respect Gensler's work, so I assume this direction comes from the client, maybe even Joe himself. A stadium should be a civic centerpiece and should have bold, dynamic architecture - it should not look like a generic infill building.

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

But I'm HEAVILY biased. McCormick Lakeside is one of my favorite buildings. Any structure with a deeply cantilevered black truss roof is gonna steal my heart.

Funny you bring that up - a stadium in the style of Lakeside Center would be badass. But that's not really what we're getting. Murphy/Jahn didn't load up their beautiful convention center with red brick to pretend it's 100 years old. When they did use brick, it was a beautiful black to complement the steelwork and kept extremely minimalist.

[Sprinklemoore]

Originally Posted by sentinel

I stand by my opinion, and no amount of bullying will change it.

I agree. Even the design inspiration being a “warehouse” is weak sauce. Chicago has many gorgeous warehouses spanning every style from NeoGothic to the Egyptian Revival of the Reebie Bros fire storage. It’s just an excuse to do the bare minimum with brick and large window bays. Doesn’t look good from the river or up close. 🤷♂️