Cogswell Interchange

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by MonctonDowntown

In regards to Keith P's post above about the trees, I don't believe the new trees planted will be later removed by development. Look at the webcam in the link below. The trees are located in the grassy areas that are not going to be developed and curb side where developments will be going.

https://www.halifax.ca/about-halifax/reg...ojects/cogswell-district-redevelopment-6

Perhaps not. But think about pretty much any high-rise construction site you've ever seen - the usual thing is to surround it with opaque fencing from lot line to lot line and sidewalk to sidewalk and dig everything up. I have to wonder if even these new sidewalks will escape removal once things get going, depending on the design.

Since I have avoided the area entirely ever since all this began I am in the dark about most of it, but a lot of it still looks like a mess. The aerial picture above shows a dirt path in front of Spice condos at the corner of Cornwallis Nora Bernard extending all the way south past the Trade Mart before colliding with Scotia Square. Surely that cannot be the long-term plan? How is the division of southbound traffic between Hollis and Barrington handled?

[IanWatson]

There's still tons of word going on and things are a mess in some locations (I've held off riding my bike to work so I don't have to navigate the lane closures) but it's all coming together very quickly.

I doubt any of the trees will need to be removed in the future. As noted, the only permanent grass areas is the triangle under the pedestrian walkway. And for the record, I don't mind that it's grass versus something like granite pavers. It's nice to have a bit of green downtown, and Granville Street is right there for anyone looking for something a little more "New Empire".

Overall I think it's turning out very, very well. The only thing that seems to be a let down is the bus lane. I'll withold final judgement until all the pieces come together, but right now it's pretty useless.

[IanWatson]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Perhaps not. But think about pretty much any high-rise construction site you've ever seen - the usual thing is to surround it with opaque fencing from lot line to lot line and sidewalk to sidewalk and dig everything up. I have to wonder if even these new sidewalks will escape removal once things get going, depending on the design.

It's still to be seen of course, but I imagine they planned for the buildings in the design.

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Since I have avoided the area entirely ever since all this began I am in the dark about most of it, but a lot of it still looks like a mess. The aerial picture above shows a dirt path in front of Spice condos at the corner of Cornwallis Nora Bernard extending all the way south past the Trade Mart before colliding with Scotia Square. Surely that cannot be the long-term plan? How is the division of southbound traffic between Hollis and Barrington handled?

The area right in front of Spice will be a park. The dirt road from the roundabout, going in front of the Trade Mart will become a proper road. This area seems to be the slowest moving phase. Everything else is probably only a couple of weeks away from completion.

[someone123]

I'm really curious about what will happen with the Scotia Square lots fronting onto Barrington and parcel "A" next to Granville Mall.

If they're developed well they could radically improve the feel of that whole area. Redeveloping all of Scotia Square would be enormously costly but that land in front provides an opportunity for something pretty good that's likely a lot less disruptive.

I also wonder if anything could be done about the Duke St corner. There have been some renderings there but nothing was built. Ideally the corner itself would be an entrance to the complex.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by mleblanc

I'm hoping people will disregard it less when Nora Bernard St. is actually open. Although props to the bus driver yesterday who held his horn for three solid minutes when he was sitting in car traffic in the bus lane. Yes, it sucks sitting in traffic, but the whole point is to improve transit flow. As a driver I believe the 40+ people in the bus should move faster than us.

This sounds like a good location for a few traffic cops with a healthy supply of ticket books…

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by someone123

I thought this was an interesting photo of the new road network:


Source

I'm a bit surprised by the roundabout on what seems like an intersection of a major artery with comparatively minor side streets.

Yes, I agree that this is not a good application for a roundabout. It almost seems as though it was added de rigeur, just because it’s the current trendy thing to do.

[OliverD]

The intersection of a busy street with a minor side street is actually a really good use case for a roundabout.

Putting a stop sign on the side street only results in long wait times for traffic from there. Putting in a full signalized intersection causes a lot more disruption to the traffic on the busy street. A roundabout keeps the arterial traffic flowing while giving more opportunities for traffic from the side streets to enter the intersection.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by OliverD

The intersection of a busy street with a minor side street is actually a really good use case for a roundabout.

Putting a stop sign on the side street only results in long wait times for traffic from there. Putting in a full signalized intersection causes a lot more disruption to the traffic on the busy street. A roundabout keeps the arterial traffic flowing while giving more opportunities for traffic from the side streets to enter the intersection.

Actually in heavy traffic situations, entering the roundabout from a side street functions the same as a stop sign. The car from the side street will have difficulty finding a gap to get into the flow, resulting in aggressive moves and the potential for collisions.

However, for the busy route, the roundabout introduces an impediment to traffic flow and causes difficulties for large trucks (like container truck traffic) and cars next to them to maneuver.

A signalized intersection with sensors on the side streets to allow an opportunity for those cars to get out is probably the best compromise, IMHO.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Actually in heavy traffic situations, entering the roundabout from a side street functions the same as a stop sign. The car from the side street will have difficulty finding a gap to get into the flow, resulting in aggressive moves and the potential for collisions.

However, for the busy route, the roundabout introduces an impediment to traffic flow and causes difficulties for large trucks (like container truck traffic) and cars next to them to maneuver.

A signalized intersection with sensors on the side streets to allow an opportunity for those cars to get out is probably the best compromise, IMHO.

The side street is not the same as a stop sign, because the entrances to the roundabout on the arterial are curved relatively sharply which slows traffic, creating opportunities for the side street traffic to enter the roundabout. Trucks slow down even more, further creating those opportunities.

[IanWatson]

My anecdotal observation is that the roundabout has been good for trucks. The apron design seems to be very good, so they have no problem making the turn.

For the time being the roundabout has been good in general. I'd definitely be grumpy sitting at a light there right now. That being said, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out Nora Bernard comes online. As Mark says, roundabouts can be a pain if you're trying to enter from a secondary street during high traffic.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Glad to hear that things have worked out for trucks. Kudos to the engineers for coming up with a good design.

[Jstaleness]

I'm going to just try and explain my personal experience with this new Cogswell. I also know it's not completed as Nora Bernard has yet to be opened (behind schedule now) as well as there are likely light cycle adjustments. Hopefully there are cycle adjustments as what's in place now isn't working. This will be from my perspective of using it in a car, as I've only been a pedestrian in this new area twice this year.

Personally, I believe Halifax has implemented a roadway that we would have expected in a city that already had working public transit, dedicated cycle/pedestrian path systems.
It's disappointing to be on a road that is single lane in and out of the biggest downtown core east of Quebec City. I'm not pro or exclusive car usage, however, Halifax is not in a position to pinch roadways and expect drivers to suddenly start taking busses or biking when as stated, proper and effective options don't yet exist. It will likely be an additional 10-15 years before we see complete BRT, Bedford Ferry, and fingers crossed, light rail again. Until then for many, the car remains their only option. I am getting aggravated at daily back up at Cogswell/Brunswick, and Barrington and Cogswell. The light cycles don't work together, there just isn't enough room to capture the spillage from 4-5:30pm and move us out. I love bus lanes, but being forced in and out of them southbound is dangerous and I am surprised more side swipe accidents haven't occurred. Perhaps when Nora Benard is open this will help some, but as others have stated, how easy will it be to enter the roundabout? To think optimistically, I do hope this is just a combination of the work not being completed, unfortunate closures of Bell Rd lanes near Robie at the same time pushing more people to use Barrington as their North route. Finally using the image above, I for one was really hoping and excited to see a grid of streets in the new area. Seeing that snake road with one mostly functioning roundabout is disappointing. That damn sewage treatment plant royally screwed any option to complete north/south streets. Is it just me not seeing the bigger picture, or has there also been no ROW left to implement light rail in the area?

[OldDartmouthMark]

Good points. I have only driven that stretch once during afternoon rush hour, coming down Cogswell and heading north to Barrington. The congestion was terrible until after the roundabout, and I almost witnessed a potential fatality when a woman in her SUV was attempting to turn left out of Abermarle and didn’t notice the bus zipping down the hill in the bus-only lane. Thanking the stars above that they were able to barely avoid a collision as it would have been messy.

All other times I’ve driven it have been in the evening when traffic is light, so it seems to function alright in those circumstances.

To me it is also disappointing that it turned out the way it did, and that more of the original street grid wasn’t revived. I guess we’ll see after completion, but it definitely feels, as usual in Halifax, that they didn’t think through the details or didn’t aim high enough. Perhaps it will be looked at in the future as a sign of the times, forcing ideals through while ignoring the practicalities of the actual situation.

And FWIW, I don’t think anyone should feel like they have to apologize for driving a car when they post here. This forum is at its best when everybody has a voice.

[Summerville]

I agree with some of the points raised and I am not an engineer of any sort but I think some of the points raised are made in a vacuum assuming that there were no constraints involved.

I travel through the cogswell interchange twice a day although by bike. I was involved in the planning very early and know some people that were involved in the planning. The Cogswell redesign was a nightmare.

A few of the constraints that couldn’t be changed.

The sewage treatment plant was designed and built decades before any consideration of redesigning Cogswell. There is also a tunnel that was bored north to south under the downtown leading to the treatment station.

The Halifax Water easement/trunk dictated what could be built and where…maybe even to the point that we would be able to have underground transit

The grade of the hill that is Cogswell was a pain to deal with.

The city had been to validate the expense of the project with the potential cost recovery of selling and developing the lots created. You may recall that this argument was a linchpin in an otherwise stingy city that doesn’t like the cost of large construction projects.

I agree that the lights are bad. I almost wonder whether any lights should have been added to Upper Water Street. They really stop traffic.

I think it all comes down to reducing the barriers to the flow of traffic (ie. bridge tolls…still not sure if that will work) but you have one or two lanes of traffic running through the new Cogswell into one or two lanes going into the existing downtown. Adding more lanes in Cogswell would still be a bottle neck as soon as you reached the downtown.

But traffic seems to flow out of downtown through cogswell quite well. Getting through cogswell to get to the downtown is problematic and the existing streets in downtown are otherwise empty during morning rush hour.

Maybe it's just the lights and transit lanes built in a wasteland where there isn’t an actual transit system.

Like the bike lanes BS last week, the real issue is that this city has completely screwed up transit…..really bad

[IanWatson]

I think one of the biggest problems--at least for morning traffic--is the entrance to Purdy's Wharf parcade. There isn't enough stacking room on Purdy's Lane, so very often you end up with multiple light cycles where no cars are able to turn left off Upper Water at Purdy's Lane. This blocks any movement on Upper Water inbound, which is enough to back all the way up to the left turn at Barrington and Upper Water.

They did move the Purdy's entrance off of Upper Water and that has been an improvement - esepcially for my feelings of safety as a cyclist. There was always a worry that the cars waiting to turn into the parcade were busy looking for gaps in the traffic and wouldn't be looking for a fast-moving bike coming up on the multiuse trail. However, the change hasn't been enough to avoid traffic issues.

I almost wish there was no left turn permitted onto the north leg of Purdy's Lane, and instead there was a left turn light on the south leg. Then cars entering the garage would have plenty of stacking space on the U shape of Purdy's Lane.

EDIT: The more I look at it, the more I think Purdy's Lane should be made one-way. Entrance at the bottom of Reconcilliation Way, exit at the bottom of Cogswell, and close the leg that's in the middle.

[eastcoastal]

Originally Posted by Jstaleness

I'm going to just try and explain my personal experience with this new Cogswell. I also know it's not completed as Nora Bernard has yet to be opened (behind schedule now) as well as there are likely light cycle adjustments. Hopefully there are cycle adjustments as what's in place now isn't working. This will be from my perspective of using it in a car, as I've only been a pedestrian in this new area twice this year.

Personally, I believe Halifax has implemented a roadway that we would have expected in a city that already had working public transit, dedicated cycle/pedestrian path systems.
It's disappointing to be on a road that is single lane in and out of the biggest downtown core east of Quebec City. I'm not pro or exclusive car usage, however, Halifax is not in a position to pinch roadways and expect drivers to suddenly start taking busses or biking when as stated, proper and effective options don't yet exist. It will likely be an additional 10-15 years before we see complete BRT, Bedford Ferry, and fingers crossed, light rail again. Until then for many, the car remains their only option. I am getting aggravated at daily back up at Cogswell/Brunswick, and Barrington and Cogswell. The light cycles don't work together, there just isn't enough room to capture the spillage from 4-5:30pm and move us out. I love bus lanes, but being forced in and out of them southbound is dangerous and I am surprised more side swipe accidents haven't occurred. Perhaps when Nora Benard is open this will help some, but as others have stated, how easy will it be to enter the roundabout? To think optimistically, I do hope this is just a combination of the work not being completed, unfortunate closures of Bell Rd lanes near Robie at the same time pushing more people to use Barrington as their North route. Finally using the image above, I for one was really hoping and excited to see a grid of streets in the new area. Seeing that snake road with one mostly functioning roundabout is disappointing. That damn sewage treatment plant royally screwed any option to complete north/south streets. Is it just me not seeing the bigger picture, or has there also been no ROW left to implement light rail in the area?

I live in the north end and frequently see afternoon traffic at a standstill on Gottingen and Agricola - held up by access to the bridge, not Cogswell. Cogswell may very well be causing some pinch points, but I suspect that even if it is, the other pinch points wouldn't let traffic flow anyway.

I think the only way it's going to improve for users of Cogswell and other infrastructure is as you've noted: fast ferry, brt, and lrt... none of which is going to happen fast enough to provide measurable relief any time soon.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by eastcoastal

I think the only way it's going to improve for users of Cogswell and other infrastructure is as you've noted: fast ferry, brt, and lrt... none of which is going to happen fast enough to provide measurable relief any time soon.

These things likely won't make traffic lighter, they'll provide some helpful alternatives and increase the total throughput. If traffic did become very light going into downtown this would tend to rebalance with increased demand (as the "price" in time would be lower). At the end of the day I don't think downtown Halifax can be an area where most people drive in and park. It has the same density as districts of major cities where most people take transit. The Halifax metro area is lower density but growing parts of the inner city have Amsterdam or Paris level density.

Some Halifax/NS views that I wish would change a bit are the idea that LRT is some far-off thing and that the city needs to pick one transport option as a "solution". LRT planning should have begun a while ago to guide zoning, land acquisition, etc. It takes a decade or more and can/should evolve from existing infrastructure like bus lanes. Lots of different modes of transport are best to spread traffic out and give people more options (like ferry + bus + AT + future LRT). The media used to cover potentially a few trains a day along the CN line like it was some grand transportation overhaul for the region.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by someone123

These things likely won't make traffic lighter, they'll provide some helpful alternatives and increase the total throughput. If traffic did become very light going into downtown this would tend to rebalance with increased demand (as the "price" in time would be lower). At the end of the day I don't think downtown Halifax can be an area where most people drive in and park. It has the same density as districts of major cities where most people take transit. The Halifax metro area is lower density but growing parts of the inner city have Amsterdam or Paris level density.

Exactly. These are things that a lot of people seem to forget. The most important being that traffic isn't really that big of a problem as long as people have an option to avoid it. Yes it creates pollution, slows down emergency vehicles and deliveries but that's a smaller percentage of overall urban movement.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by someone123

These things likely won't make traffic lighter, they'll provide some helpful alternatives and increase the total throughput. If traffic did become very light going into downtown this would tend to rebalance with increased demand (as the "price" in time would be lower). At the end of the day I don't think downtown Halifax can be an area where most people drive in and park. It has the same density as districts of major cities where most people take transit. The Halifax metro area is lower density but growing parts of the inner city have Amsterdam or Paris level density.

Some Halifax/NS views that I wish would change a bit are the idea that LRT is some far-off thing and that the city needs to pick one transport option as a "solution". LRT planning should have begun a while ago to guide zoning, land acquisition, etc. It takes a decade or more and can/should evolve from existing infrastructure like bus lanes. Lots of different modes of transport are best to spread traffic out and give people more options (like ferry + bus + AT + future LRT). The media used to cover potentially a few trains a day along the CN line like it was some grand transportation overhaul for the region.

Again, we need only look at the map that OldDartmouthMark created to see the opportunity missed. Look at that rail line from the mid-1960s that terminated adjacent to the Casino site. Imagine the Casino went away and that site (or another even deeper into the DT core after a short line extension) was used instead for a transit terminal. It would have been so obvious. But those lines along the harborfront no longer exist. Perhaps it should be a govt priority to recreate them in some form to move people and not cargo.

[DartmouthSteve]

Totally agree.

Bergen, Norway has a metro population of 470,000. Smaller than Halifax. Their first LRT line was completed in 2010.

Again, I'm not sure where the argument that Halifax isn't large enough for light rail comes from. Subway, no. Maybe never. But LRT would go a long way in alleviating congestion.

I'm not saying anything new here, just wanted to add my voice to the choir.

Here's a YouTube link on the Bergen LRT.

https://youtu.be/Bs-T7bv6qTk?si=T0YZgF2nfzV7byW5