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  #2861  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2025, 9:54 PM
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Djeffery Djeffery is online now
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YXU London on their annual report showed passenger count at 314,441, down about 5% from the year before. No doubt mostly as a result of the loss of Swoop and Flair cutbacks.
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  #2862  
Old Posted Jun 3, 2025, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
According to this article, YKF handled 523,210 pax in 2024 = +17.9%. HOWEVER, that also includes AC bus pax from 01MAY-31DEC24. There's six AC Landline coach roundtrips daily and the coaches seat 36 pax. Assuming a 50% LF on the buses, it means the number of non-flying pax at YKF in 2024 was in the 46,224 range, meaning the actual number of flying pax handled was more like 476,986 (or less).

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/kitch...inue-1.7547888
See here

If the seat map is correct and everyday is like that, then you're way overestimating the ridership of the bus service. Instead of 50% LF, it's more like 15-25% for YKF, and even lower for YHM...
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  #2863  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2025, 9:13 AM
zahav zahav is offline
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I took my best shot at updating WS summer schedule to include WG. It was an extremely tedious and imprecise task, and I am putting this disclaimer as obvious as possible: these figures were based on doing dummy searches on Sunwing's website and are in no way verified. Using the WG website was the only way, WS may have absorbed them officially, but the flights are not merged into WS's booking engine or any other sites like Google Flights, which is where I do most of my flight schedule searches. The WG website is still up and running, and is where you book flights and packages still. The only way you would known they are part of WS is when you choose your package destination/dates, and you get to the screen where you chose your hotel etc, and under Flight Details it shows a WS flight #. So I had to manually check destinations from each of the WS secondary cities (these are the cities I always post about for comparison, YYC is so far in its own league it doesn't belong in the discussion). And my reference week was July 14-20, that's all. So any future changes etc. are not factored in here. A few notable findings:

-YYZ (+43) and YUL (+39) saw the largest increase in WS flights due to absorbing WG, which makes total sense as they had the most WG flights as well, so these migrated over. I never did a WG flight schedule breakdown before so I can't say how much capacity WS is keeping, but they definitely added significant flight frequencies from both YYZ and YUL to sun destinations. Another indicator that the new flights are just a migration of WG and not rebuilding hub connections is that neither airport showed noticeable growth in domestic flights. So these WS adds are just O&D for sun travel, basically what WG was
-Other than YYZ and YUL, other airports had little or no any change due to the WG integration. YVR, YWG, YHZ didn't appear to gain even one former WG flight. YVR does have Sunwing offerings through the summer, but all flights appear to be existing WS flight numbers already in the scheds, no new adds. YWG and YHZ don't have any summer offerings on the WG page or from WS. YEG looks like it gained one flight frequency to CUN, and that's it. Again, more or less consistent with WG being relatively smaller outside of YYZ/YUL especially in summer. Winter will likely be more impactful, I'll do a comparison of that when I have the energy.
-YVR maintains its position as 2nd largest WS base in terms of total flights, seat count, and Encore frequency. They are also 2nd largest in flights and seats in the domestic and transborder sectors
-YYZ jumps ahead of YEG in total flight count with this boost from WG. YEG had been ahead previously and last year, but always very close. YYZ was always ahead in seat count even when behind in total flights (YYZ was mainline only, so had more seats than YEG which has Encore). YYZ also leads in # of destinations (42) and international flight frequency
-YEG now a clearer 4th place overall, previously being neck and neck with YYZ when it came to flights. This is not a reflection of YEG declining or being ignored by WS obviously, simply the WG integration benefiting YYZ and doing nothing for YEG, it was a blg enough add to push YYZ in front. If that didn't happen, I'd be shocked. Honestly I expected a bigger gain for YYZ than what I'm seeing, but I have no idea how big WG was before, but I think WS is letting some of the capacity get absorbed by their existing sun service that was already part of their schedule

Here is a breakdown of the stats for the reference week, including any WG adds:

YVR
Total Flights: 516 (368 mainline, 148 Encore)
Total Seats: 69,302
Destinations: 34

YYZ
Total Flights: 393 (all mainline)
Total Seats: 61,682
Destinations: 42

YEG
Total Flights: 372 (288 mainline, 84 Encore)
Total Seats: 51,754
Destinations: 32

YWG
Total Flights: 190 (157 mainline, 33 Encore)
Total Seats: 27,215
Destinations: 15

YHZ
Total Flights: 99 (all mainline)
Total Seats: 15,538
Destinations: 14

YUL
Total Flights: 66 (all mainline)
Total Seats: 7,280
Destinations: 14

YVR clearly holding onto the #2 position, biggest hub outside YYC. Even the transborder offerings appear to have held on fairly well, all things considered. I certainly didn't expect to see weekly frequencies like 12x LAS, 10x LAX, 7x HNL, 7x BOS, or 15x ATL still on the scheds. The losses were not nearly as severe as I feared, I hope it lasts, but fear the worst. Domestic still strong, and sun destinations steady but with a small volume.

One of my biggest takeaways is YYZ's performance overall. Even with the effect of WG's integration, WS is still way behind compared to years past. They're not even close to recovering the losses from when WS demolished their YYZ base and basically only kept it's sun routes. YYZ even surpassed YYC in many metrics before, now they are worlds apart. I even thought YYZ might jump past YVR for 2nd place, but at least this summer it isn't the case at all. Winter might be different, but for the summer reference week, the gap is still big.

WS at YUL proportionally gained the most from WG's integration, by a huge margin. They went from only serving 3 domestic destinations this summer to serving 11 international destinations plus the 3 domestic. Gaining WG gave WS some face at YUL, where they otherwise were so minor it was shocking. But while it was a big gain proportionally, WS's integrated stats at YUL still show it noticeably behind even YHZ, even with a new roster of sun flights. But at least it has more heft now, time will tell if people embrace WS or migrate elsewhere.

YHZ has definitely bounced back with the new international servicw, but it is still significantly behind YWG for seats and flights. YWG's domestic offerings still outweigh the new transatlantic flights at YHZ, but Brandon and Thunder Bay just aren't as glamorous at Paris or Rome, but they add more pax
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  #2864  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2025, 1:05 PM
Dominion301 Dominion301 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nname View Post
See here

If the seat map is correct and everyday is like that, then you're way overestimating the ridership of the bus service. Instead of 50% LF, it's more like 15-25% for YKF, and even lower for YHM...
50% is probably fairly accurate. The seat map for the bus wouldn’t be much of an indicator as who would pay to reserve their seat on a bus? 18 occupied seats per arrival/departure seems reasonable.
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  #2865  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2025, 7:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Dominion301 View Post
50% is probably fairly accurate. The seat map for the bus wouldn’t be much of an indicator as who would pay to reserve their seat on a bus? 18 occupied seats per arrival/departure seems reasonable.
Well, the data was collected a couple of hours before departure, right before check in is closed.

The vast majority of people check in and select seats within a couple of hours after it opens, so chances are there won't be much difference from the actual load, save for maybe same day standby.

Just a note, a couple of days ago I checked in exactly 23 hours before departure (1 hour after it opened), and I got a seq number in the 150s for a 789...
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  #2866  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2025, 8:24 PM
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hollywoodcory hollywoodcory is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zahav View Post
I took my best shot at updating WS summer schedule to include WG. It was an extremely tedious and imprecise task, and I am putting this disclaimer as obvious as possible: these figures were based on doing dummy searches on Sunwing's website and are in no way verified. Using the WG website was the only way, WS may have absorbed them officially, but the flights are not merged into WS's booking engine or any other sites like Google Flights, which is where I do most of my flight schedule searches.
There's a few routes that WS flies solely for Sunwing Vacation packages and you can't book air-only portions and don't show up in the reservation system.

This includes ALL of YUL-Sun destinations and a handful of YYZ. There's a few YYC/YEG/YVR flights scheduled in the winter like that too.

I suspect eventually they'll only block a portion of the flights for Sunwing Packages and open the remainder of seats for air-only itineraries.

-----

On another note, WS keeps extending YYC-FCO further and further into winter, now showing until the end of November.
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  #2867  
Old Posted Jun 4, 2025, 10:33 PM
Ace Cdn Ace Cdn is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nname View Post
Well, the data was collected a couple of hours before departure, right before check in is closed.

The vast majority of people check in and select seats within a couple of hours after it opens, so chances are there won't be much difference from the actual load, save for maybe same day standby.

Just a note, a couple of days ago I checked in exactly 23 hours before departure (1 hour after it opened), and I got a seq number in the 150s for a 789...
Sequence number 150 would include anyone connecting to that flight that may have checked in earlier as their first flight would be eligible for checkin before your flight.
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  #2868  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2025, 3:42 AM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is online now
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Air Canada Cargo will start dedicated freighter flights to/from YUL on June 12.

ATL, ORD, DFW and NLU are on the schedules.

https://www.aircanada.com/cargo/ship...row-body,truck
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  #2869  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2025, 6:10 AM
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According to Aeroroute, AC reduce YYZ-ICN from daily to 5x weekly in W25.

Also, India routes were reverted to W23 setup for W25:

YYZ-BOM suspended
YYZ-LHR-BOM reinstated, daily 788
YYC-LHR-DEL shortened to YYC-LHR

This change is likely where about half of the S America capacity increase coming from. But where does the 4x weekly 77L moving to? Perhaps they can use it to fly YVR-DEL non-stop

And it seems like the change is already loaded onto the cargo schedule, even though it just updated a few hours ago. Maybe I should just parse the cargo schedule instead of taking hours to fetch the passenger schedule, which is now always updates up to a week late...

Last edited by nname; Jun 5, 2025 at 6:21 AM.
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  #2870  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2025, 11:47 AM
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Shediac mural honours Transatlantic air service of 1930s
Historical society hopes to build a Boeing 314 seaplane replica as a museum and tourist attraction in Shediac
Author of the article:Alan Cochrane
Published Jun 04, 2025 • Last updated 15 hours ago • 2 minute read
https://tj.news/moncton-miramichi/sh...rvice-of-1930s (paywall)


A mural depicting passengers walking off a Boeing 314 seaplane will be unveiled in Shediac Sunday. The mural recalls the day in 1939 when the Pan-Am Transatlantic air service made its first stop at the Pointe-du-Chene Wharf, en route from New York to Southampton, England. SUBMITTED


Photo shows passengers disembarking from a Boeing 314 seaplane around 1939. These planes stopped in Shediac as they travelled between New York and Southampton, England. SUBMITTED


I think the plan to build a replica flyong boat in Shediac as a tourist attraction is a bit of a pipe dream, but, this is an interesting historical tidbit of a time when trans-Atlantic passenger service was novel and the idea of flight was still romantic.

For those who don't know, Shediac is an exurban seaside town on the Northumberland Strait about 15 minutes from Moncton.
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  #2871  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2025, 1:38 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nname View Post
According to Aeroroute, AC reduce YYZ-ICN from daily to 5x weekly in W25.

Also, India routes were reverted to W23 setup for W25:

YYZ-BOM suspended
YYZ-LHR-BOM reinstated, daily 788
YYC-LHR-DEL shortened to YYC-LHR

This change is likely where about half of the S America capacity increase coming from. But where does the 4x weekly 77L moving to? Perhaps they can use it to fly YVR-DEL non-stop

And it seems like the change is already loaded onto the cargo schedule, even though it just updated a few hours ago. Maybe I should just parse the cargo schedule instead of taking hours to fetch the passenger schedule, which is now always updates up to a week late...
Clearly YYZ-BOM, non stop, didn't work out. Initial plan was to operate the flight the entire W24 season. They cut that short, with the last flight to BOM being on Feb 26. It didn't help that the westbound flights had to stop in FRA due to airspace constraints.
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  #2872  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2025, 4:15 PM
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One of the potential new winter destinations for YYC was not at all on my radar. Won’t say much until it gets announced though. The others I kinda figured.

YYC will also see 5 new routes starting over the next week, including AA to LGA, WS to RDU, YQY, YSB and PD to YHM.
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  #2873  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2025, 8:45 PM
thenoflyzone thenoflyzone is online now
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Originally Posted by hollywoodcory View Post
One of the potential new winter destinations for YYC was not at all on my radar. Won’t say much until it gets announced though. The others I kinda figured.

YYC will also see 5 new routes starting over the next week, including AA to LGA, WS to RDU, YQY, YSB and PD to YHM.
YYC-South America perhaps?

They did get approval to fly to Colombia. Figured it was ADZ or CTG out of YYZ/YUL, but it might be a YYC route. Not my first choice, but WS needs to send their dreamliners somewhere in winter.
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  #2874  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2025, 2:29 AM
IcyRock IcyRock is offline
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Looks like AC will be launching service to Accra. Judging by their application to do so could be sooner than later.
https://otc-cta.gc.ca/eng/ruling/a-2025-98
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  #2875  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2025, 6:51 AM
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hollywoodcory hollywoodcory is offline
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Originally Posted by thenoflyzone View Post
YYC-South America perhaps?

They did get approval to fly to Colombia. Figured it was ADZ or CTG out of YYZ/YUL, but it might be a YYC route. Not my first choice, but WS needs to send their dreamliners somewhere in winter.
Yeah it’s in that vicinity. I’ve been told the plans are not final so could change.
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  #2876  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2025, 2:01 PM
jc_yyc_ca jc_yyc_ca is offline
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Originally Posted by hollywoodcory View Post
Yeah it’s in that vicinity. I’ve been told the plans are not final so could change.
I had heard from someone there was talk of YYC to PTY (Panama City) If that sounds right, you don't have to say anything, just nod
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  #2877  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2025, 4:13 PM
kwoldtimer kwoldtimer is offline
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Originally Posted by jc_yyc_ca View Post
I had heard from someone there was talk of YYC to PTY (Panama City) If that sounds right, you don't have to say anything, just nod
That would be the only destination "in the vicinity" of Colombia that would make sense. From PTY you can fly virtually anywhere in LatAm and the Caribbean.
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  #2878  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2025, 4:45 PM
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Cowtown_Tim Cowtown_Tim is offline
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Originally Posted by jc_yyc_ca View Post
I had heard from someone there was talk of YYC to PTY (Panama City) If that sounds right, you don't have to say anything, just nod
That's very interesting, I've heard the same rumour.
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  #2879  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2025, 7:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jc_yyc_ca View Post
I had heard from someone there was talk of YYC to PTY (Panama City) If that sounds right, you don't have to say anything, just nod
That is amongst the rumours is all I will say.
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  #2880  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2025, 10:54 PM
YYCguys YYCguys is offline
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YYC to LIR and back are really long flights (around 7 hours!). Perhaps too long for me on a 737. YYC to PTY and back would be even longer! Can a 737 go much further?
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