The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[sailor734]

They posted the views going east as well. Interesting to see the westside portions of the throughway under construction and Fairville Boulevard (AKA "The Golden Mile") as a narrow 2 lane road with gravel shoulders

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pBh04ffbRY

[sailor734]

The first few minutes of this shows the massive changes that have taken place in the port and the SJ waterfront since the middle of the 20th century. There is even a shot of the Loyalist ferry just for you Envision Saint John!

Lots on Fredericton too (Sorry Moncton, you guys weren't of enough interest to make the cut )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxcajmr9Bek

[MonctonRad]

Oh, these films of Moncton exist too. In fact, they cover the entire province. They were made by the Ministry of Transportation at the time in order to plan road maintenance.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Oh, these films of Moncton exist too. In fact, they cover the entire province. They were made by the Ministry of Transportation at the time in order to plan road maintenance.

Oh, I know. Coming from the former champ I was just trying to get a dig in at NB's new "Premier City"

[bingun]

I didn't watch it for my own sanity, but it seems like the Lorneville rezoning meeting ended last night in about 2 hours. From listening to the last few minutes, it seems they finished up with all the 'against' speakers, which is a surprise. They adjourned the meeting with the intention of having a fresh meeting for the 'for' speakers.

I am interested to see who is planning to speak at that meeting. In my opinion, these need to be strong speakers with clear presentations to support. The 'intro' presentations given by city staff at the first meeting were not great, and most of them sounded terrified in front of the larger audience.

Edit

CBC coverage of last night - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-bruns...lic-hearing-saint-john-council-1.7551707

We have our answer to what the 'Green Manufacturing' Project is.

Councillor accused of bias

Wilkins and others also aimed criticism at Coun. Brent Harris over a blog post published on the councillor's website on May 15 that community members perceived as support for the project.
Wilkins accused Harris of "leaking" information about what will come in the park should the rezoning application move forward.
In his post, Harris talked about the expansion's "transformational" opportunities and balancing them with Lorneville concerns. Harris wrote of the positives of the expansion but said he would continue to listen.
In an earlier version — captured and saved by Wilkins — Harris said the city had received two letters of intent, one for a data centre and the other for a hydrogen ammonia processing facility.
Lack of information about potential developments is a key reason community members are wary of the expansion. Harris later changed the wording of his original post to "advanced manufacturing processing facility," and said his original post was a mistake.
But Wilkins was suspicious.
"Why is he privy to that, or why is he allowed to leak that information that puts that out into the public, when the community spent 11 months trying to understand what actually would be coming and how we can ask questions and figure that out," Wilkins asked.

https://tj.news/saint-john-south/industrial-park-public-hearing-adjourned-for-a-third-time

Harris told Brunswick News that in the post, he had incorrectly identified the hydrogen plant as a possible proponent, confusing it for one of the possible uses listed in MacKinnon’s report, and that he had fixed the error when notified. He said the blog post was meant to offer “transparency” in laying out his thought process following the first meeting of the public hearing.

“The whole point of posting that blog was really to try to reflect where things are at for me personally,” Harris said. He said there’s been “a lot of tension” and in the post said he was balancing the concerns raised by residents against the support during the federal election for the promotion of “shovel ready projects” as Canada seeks to reshape its economy.

[bingun]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

We have a group called Saint John Cycling that is supposed to care about protected lanes, trails, and making Saint John a more bike friendly city; however, their group is mainly composed of people from outside the city that only care about mountain biking in Rockwood park. If enough Saint Johners actually ponied up the $40 membership fee to join, they could actually steer the group back towards its mission statement, without having to go through all the pains of starting a new, competing group that's more focussed on cycling as a form of transportation, than cycling as a form of leisure.

Don't get me wrong, Rockwood Park is well known to be one of the best places to mountain bike on the entire eastern seaboard of North America, but mountain trails at Rockwood Park seems to be the only interest our local cycling advocacy group puts any time, effort, and financial resources into.

You've posted a few times about Saint John Cycling, and I don't really understand the hate. I know the President of the group, and he's a great guy. I believe he lives on the west side, not out in the valley.

Yes, a lot of the group's focus is on mountain biking, but given the lack of cycling infrastructure in the city and our landscape, this isn't surprising.

Rockwood Park receives a lot of attention, but the group also invest a significant amount of energy into Shady Grove, which is located within Quispamsis. One of the reasons that Rockwood Park and Shady Grove get a lot of attention is that they're actionable. With a small amount of funds and local volunteers, they can build out or enhance the existing trail network to the benefit of all.

When I think about what could make Saint John a great city and appealing to those here or considering moving here, outdoor recreation is a huge part of that. With moderate support and a consistent community, Saint John could be an excellent location for those with interests in running, cycling, rock climbing, and water sports, offering a unique way to stand out against other cities in the Maritimes.

Advancing road cycling infrastructure is a lot more difficult; it is not like they can build their own bike lanes. I agree they could advocate more, and I believe they will in the future, but it's also a more challenging game. Virtually no one in the city is going to complain about their trail enhancements, but as we see in this thread, pushing for bike lanes and other infrastructure is controversial and often political.

[ell]

Originally Posted by bingun

You've posted a few times about Saint John Cycling, and I don't really understand the hate. I know the President of the group, and he's a great guy. I believe he lives on the west side, not out in the valley.

Yes, a lot of the group's focus is on mountain biking, but given the lack of cycling infrastructure in the city and our landscape, this isn't surprising.

Rockwood Park receives a lot of attention, but the group also invest a significant amount of energy into Shady Grove, which is located within Quispamsis. One of the reasons that Rockwood Park and Shady Grove get a lot of attention is that they're actionable. With a small amount of funds and local volunteers, they can build out or enhance the existing trail network to the benefit of all.

When I think about what could make Saint John a great city and appealing to those here or considering moving here, outdoor recreation is a huge part of that. With moderate support and a consistent community, Saint John could be an excellent location for those with interests in running, cycling, rock climbing, and water sports, offering a unique way to stand out against other cities in the Maritimes.

Advancing road cycling infrastructure is a lot more difficult; it is not like they can build their own bike lanes. I agree they could advocate more, and I believe they will in the future, but it's also a more challenging game. Virtually no one in the city is going to complain about their trail enhancements, but as we see in this thread, pushing for bike lanes and other infrastructure is controversial and often political.

To add to this: Saint John Cycling Club was founded by Johnners who were mostly interested in mountain biking. At that time, Rockwood Park was where almost all the trails were. While mountain biking in Rockwood has always been a focus of the group, the club wanted to do more than trail building, from day one.

Road cycling, advocacy, and other priorities were all added, intentionally, as the club grew. The club even advocated provincially for updated rules of the road that would be safer for all users. This included the 1m law, which was eventually implemented (without any of the other improvements), after Ellen Watters was killed by a driver while cycling.

The club does a lot today but as others have pointed out, most of the improvements to Saint John roads are initiated by city staff/council because it’s best practice, not by cycling advocates.

Just a little background context 🙂

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

ff

I'll just reply to you both. Here's straight from Saint John Cycling's website:




First off, I don't hate Saint John Cycling. I think they do really good work and are a big reason why Rockwood Park is one of the best places to mountain bike in Atlantic Canada. However, I just feel like they don't even try to live up to their group's full mission statement. Also, despite their President and other board members living on the West Side, their membership is mostly composed of people living outside the city. This demographic reality very much influences the group's focus away from city cycling issues.

Just look on their social media accounts, it's almost all posts about about mountain biking in Rockwood park, other mountain bike trails in Quispamsis, and some recreational road rides. On the "where to ride" section of their website, they don't even have the Harbour Passage listed. There's far more places "to ride" than the three locations they have listed, and just further enforces how mountain bike centric the group is. I don't think they have a single post on their social media accounts about advocating or lobbying for better bike paths, bike lanes, and raising awareness about cycling in Saint John.

The advocacy section of their website says, "Saint John Cycling advocates for policies and infrastructure that makes cycling safe and accessible for all ages and abilities", but that's it, nothing else concrete. I commend the group for pushing for "Ellen's Law" to be passed, back in 2017, but it seems they have done very little since then in terms of advocacy.

When an 85 year old man, and avid Saint John cyclist died in 2023, the group didn't make a single permanent post about what had happened, and simply had a 24 hour story with a link to this article. Here's the section of that article where the President of Saint John Cycling made a comment:

Martin Palkovic, president of nonprofit Saint John Cycling, believes telling the public about fatal collisions whenever possible makes cyclists and motorists more aware of the risks.

"People that bike regularly will usually tell you they don't feel safe biking around Saint John," he said.

Knowing that someone has recently died on a bicycle at a given location "would definitely help you to take a safety mindset, and be careful when you're travelling through those areas."

I wasn't really impressed with this response, or the lack of response from Saint John Cycling on their socials regarding this tragic cycling accident. It will help us be more careful when we know someone died at a certain location? I guess, but I think it would be even more helpful to advocate for safer roads and acceptance of cyclists on the roads. Really though, if he truly believes that telling the public about fatal collisions and where they happened whenever possible makes cyclists and motorists more aware of the risks... why didn't his group didn't make a single permanent post, on their socials with thousands of followers, about this tragedy? Didn't want to kill the positive vibes? Probably...

Much the same can be said about their lack of response when another gentleman was killed riding his bike Uptown, back in 2021. The group seems scared of wading into the negative sides of biking in Saint John... like the lack of bike trails to get around the city, the lack of bike lanes, the abundance of dangerous drivers, or the rampant bike theft... even though their group's mission statement says they should care about all these things.


Imo, it was contradictory for the President of Saint John Cycling to say what he said to the press about this tragic accident, and not follow it up with his group making some relevant posts about what happened, to raise awareness and try and make cycling on the streets of Saint John safer. Go look through their social media accounts and website if you don't believe me, there's no mention of these recent cycling deaths in Saint John... and no calls for change.

Again, though, I don't hate their group... I'm just disappointed that they have such an overwhelming focus on mountain biking, when their mission statement and own group description suggests they are about a lot more than just mountain biking and recreational road riding. Yet, when you look at their website and socials, its abundantly clear they don't care much at all about advocacy. Also, I've heard their current advocacy lead has wanted to leave the role for quite a while now, but that he doesn't want to leave the position until they actually find someone who wants to do the role. I don't think it's exactly a mystery why they haven't been able to find someone to replace him...

Sure, I could spend the $40, join the group, and try and "be the change I want to see" ... but unless a bunch of other new people also sign up, who also care about advocating for and lobbying the city and province to invest in better cycling infrastructure, I think it would be mostly a waste of time and effort to join a group mostly composed of KVers who want to keep the group's efforts and resources mostly focussed on building new and increasingly dangerous ways to ride their mountain bikes.

I'm all for improving recreational infrastructure in Saint John, and agree it's something we need to work on to make the city a more attractive to prospective residents. Rockwood Park's mountain bike trails are a tremendous asset for the city, but I'd argue they're mostly a draw for people to moving to the suburbs, which are mostly outside the city limits.

Speaking of opportunities to improve recreation, I think the lack of outdoor hockey rinks in Saint John is abysmal, and is one of the most frustrating aspects of living here in the winter for me. Saint John Residents shouldn't have to drive to the Rothesay Common and deal with their excessively restrictive schedule for when you can and can't play shinny. The city of Saint John has no excuse for not doing better on outdoor rinks, not even the mild climate. The fact that we have a $500,000 outdoor hockey rink locked up for the entirety of the winter is just beyond ridiculous. I've been told by someone who works at the city that the biggest reason we don't have city built outdoor hockey rinks, is a lack of insurance. Yet, the city seems to have no insurance issue when it comes to double diamond mountain bike trails in Rockwood Park

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

The first few minutes of this shows the massive changes that have taken place in the port and the SJ waterfront since the middle of the 20th century. There is even a shot of the Loyalist ferry just for you Envision Saint John!

• Video Link

Seen this one before, but thanks for sharing!

There's the money shot.



Proof a ferry could still be a viable option, despite the nautical challenges of the tides and strong currents of Saint John Harbour. Also proof tall structures on the waterfront won't "ruin" the skyline haha

The same route may no longer be viable, but other routes for a ferry could work. Even if we just got a water taxi, it would be really nice to have an option to cross the harbour on the water.

I still think a pedestrian/cyclist bridge, or even a tunnel could end up costing less than a ferry in the long run... there's been a lot of relatively recent advancements in tunnelling technology.

But a ferry would look certainly look the most attractive on a postcard/ tourism ad.

[ell]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I'll just reply to you both. Here's straight from Saint John Cycling's website:




First off, I don't hate Saint John Cycling. I think they do really good work and are a big reason why Rockwood Park is one of the best places to mountain bike in Atlantic Canada. However, I just feel like they don't even try to live up to their group's full mission statement. Also, despite their President and other board members living on the West Side, their membership is mostly composed of people living outside the city. This demographic reality very much influences the group's focus away from city cycling issues.

Just look on their social media accounts, it's almost all posts about about mountain biking in Rockwood park, other mountain bike trails in Quispamsis, and some recreational road rides. On the "where to ride" section of their website, they don't even have the Harbour Passage listed. There's far more places "to ride" than the three locations they have listed, and just further enforces how mountain bike centric the group is. I don't think they have a single post on their social media accounts about advocating or lobbying for better bike paths, bike lanes, and raising awareness about cycling in Saint John.

The advocacy section of their website says, "Saint John Cycling advocates for policies and infrastructure that makes cycling safe and accessible for all ages and abilities", but that's it, nothing else concrete. I commend the group for pushing for "Ellen's Law" to be passed, back in 2017, but it seems they have done very little since then in terms of advocacy.

When an 85 year old man, and avid Saint John cyclist died in 2023, the group didn't make a single permanent post about what had happened, and simply had a 24 hour story with a link to this article. Here's the section of that article where the President of Saint John Cycling made a comment:



I wasn't really impressed with this response, or the lack of response from Saint John Cycling on their socials regarding this tragic cycling accident. It will help us be more careful when know someone died at a certain location? I guess, but I think it would be even more helpful to advocate for safer roads and acceptance of cyclists on the roads. Really though, if he truly believes that telling the public about fatal collisions and where they happened whenever possible makes cyclists and motorists more aware of the risks... why didn't his group didn't make a single permanent post, on their socials with thousands of followers, about this tragedy? Didn't want to kill the positive vibes? Probably...


Imo, it was contradictory for the President of Saint John Cycling to say what he said to the press about this tragic accident, and not follow it up with his group making some relevant posts about what happened, to raise awareness and try and make cycling on the streets of Saint John safer.

Again, though, I don't hate their group... I'm just disappointed that they have such an overwhelming focus on mountain biking, when their mission statement and own group description suggests they are about a lot more than just mountain biking and recreational road riding. Yet, when you look at their website and socials, its abundantly clear they don't care much at all about advocacy. Also, I've heard their current advocacy lead has wanted to leave the role for quite a while now, but that he doesn't want to leave the position until they actually find someone who wants to do the role. I don't think it's exactly a mystery why they haven't been able to find someone to replace him...

Sure, I could spend the $40, join the group, and try and "be the change I want to see" ... but unless a bunch of other new people also sign up, who also care about advocating for and lobbying the city and province to invest in better cycling infrastructure, I think it would be mostly a waste of time and effort to join a group mostly composed of KVers who want to keep the group's efforts and resources mostly focussed on building new and increasingly dangerous ways to ride their mountain bikes.

I'm all for improving recreational infrastructure in Saint John, and agree it's something we need to work on to make the city a more attractive to prospective residents. Rockwood Park's mountain bike trails are a tremendous asset for the city, but I'd argue they're mostly a draw for people to moving to the suburbs, which are mostly outside the city limits.

Speaking of opportunities to improve recreation, I think the lack of outdoor hockey rinks in Saint John is abysmal, and is one of the most frustrating aspects of living here in the winter for me. Saint John Residents shouldn't have to drive to the Rothesay Common and deal with their excessively restrictive schedule for when you can and can't play shinny. The city of Saint John has no excuse for not doing better on outdoor rinks, not even the mild climate. The fact that we have a $500,000 outdoor hockey rink locked up for the entirety of the winter is just beyond ridiculous. I've been told by someone who works at the city that the biggest reason we don't have city built outdoor hockey rinks, is a lack of insurance. Yet, the city seems to have no insurance issue when it comes to double diamond mountain bike trails in Rockwood Park

The first sentence in the screenshot you shared aligns well with the context I provided: "Saint John Cycling is a volunteer based nonprofit organization focused on recreational biking in the Saint John region."

I agree that the club could do more beyond recreational cycling, if they made that a bigger priority. I don't agree that the club's advocacy is being constrained by members who live outside the city limits. Small nonprofits are run by the members who hold executive positions. As you point out, most/all of these members live in the city.

If you were to join the club, I'm confident that you would discover that it does much more than you see from the outside.

Also, small nonprofits are often looking to fill executive positions.

If you were to join the club, I'm certain that you could be the change you want to see

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by ell

The first sentence in the screenshot you shared aligns well with the context I provided: "Saint John Cycling is a volunteer based nonprofit organization focused on recreational biking in the Saint John region."

I agree that the club could do more beyond recreational cycling, if they made that a bigger priority. I don't agree that the club's advocacy is being constrained by members who live outside the city limits. Small nonprofits are run by the members who hold executive positions. As you point out, most/all of these members live in the city.

If you were to join the club, I'm confident that you would discover that it does much more than you see from the outside.

Also, small nonprofits are often looking to fill executive positions.

If you were to join the club, I'm certain that you could be the change you want to see

I admire your optimism, but I'm really not so sure about that.

As for the club's advocacy not being constrained by most of the members living outside the city limits... I couldn't disagree more strongly. I think it's pretty obvious that the group has very little willingness and appetite to push the city or the province to invest in making Saint John a safer and more bike friendly city. The group has to maintain a positive relationship with the city to continue to doing basically whatever they want in Rockwood Park, and I don't think they want to risk pissing the city or the province off by advocating or lobbying hard for cycling issues, when the club relies on both the city and province as funding sources.

Considering most of the club's membership lives outside of Saint John, I don't think it's much of a stretch to say that for the large majority of those out of town members, their interest in making Saint John a more bike friendly city begins and ends with mountain biking at Rockwood Park, a place they get to and from by driving, not by riding their bikes. It certainly seems this is the case based on the group's social media posts... The posts are almost all about mountain biking, with some stuff here and there about road cycling and member rides. Go through their social media pages if you don't believe me... there's almost nothing about pushing for better bike lanes, nothing calling for a city wide network of bike trails, and next to nothing in terms of advocating for cycling to be taken more seriously as a form of active transportation across the Saint John Region.

I hate to be cynical, I really do, and I hope you and bingun are right, that the group will start to take the cycling advocacy side of things more seriously, and more passionately. It would be great if they put some more effort into raising awareness, calling for improvements, and putting concrete ideas out there for how to improve the urban cycling situation in the Saint John Region. Before I'd even consider becoming a paying member the club, I'd first like to see even an inkling of change in terms of their social media posts in terms of cycling advocacy.

I know a few members of Saint John cycling were crucial in getting a trail built on Riverview Drive on the West Side, which was certainly something positive for biking and pedestrians in this neighbourhood. However, I'm not sure I'm a big fan of the city pushing for millions more to be put into improving this trail by connecting it to the harbour passage system, when they're not actually creating a new trail, just incorporating and upgrading one that already exists and is already quit a nice trail. As a cyclist I think I might even prefer this trail to remain unpaved. Moreover, as a Westsider, I think there's two far bigger priorities for the West Side in terms of improving the cycling situation:

#1 - A quicker route between Uptown and the West Side

#2 - A new pedestrian overpass across the throughway



A pedestrian/bicycle overpass like the one above, constructed between Molson Ave and Fairville Plaza is something the West Side needs millions spent on a lot more than we need millions spent on further beautifying a trail that already exists, and trail that I must say Saint John Cycling was able to make quite good with very little resources spent.



This would make Sobey's a much closer walking distance for thousands of people, and it would also make cycling to Sobey's a much more attractive option for people on the "wrong" side of the throughway. I live on that side of the West Side, and the throughway makes it pretty hellish to get to the Fairville Plaza shopping area on a bicycle. The left turn from Bleury to Fairville Blvd is an absolute nightmare, but it's also the only legal way of getting to Sobey's on a bike from the West Side. A pedestrian/bicycle overpass would be a game changer.



The province owns all the land that would be required to build a pedestrian overpass here, thus it would largely be up to the DTI to do this. As far as I know, the city hasn't been lobbying for this to happen, and Saint John Cycling certainly hasn't either... but if SJC were actually willing to devote some of their group's substantial social media presence to advocate for ideas like this and others to be funded by the city, province, and corporations, to improve Saint John's built environment for cyclists and pedestrians, then I'd be more than happy to join their ranks as a card carrying member.

The Harbour Bridge pathway will be an engineering challenge with a much larger price tag, but it was good to see a while back that the city does at least have it in their long term plans. Would also be nice to see Saint John Cycling to push for this to happen quicker, as it could be a transformational development for cycling between Uptown and the West Side.


Anyways, I don't know if you're part of Saint John Cycling or not, but I suspect you could be. I don't want to give the impression that I'm against their club and their efforts to improve mountain biking in Saint John, because they do really good work, which is good for our city. I just find it disappointing how little their group seems to devote to other cycling issues on their social media pages. I think they could be doing far more to raise awareness for issues facing cyclists in Saint John on their socials, or actually post about some ideas on how to fundamentally improve the cycling situation across the entire region. I think it would be nice if the group that calls themselves "Saint John Cycling" did a bit more, or a lot more, by using their social media accounts with a substantial and influential following, to advocate for improvements to the cycling situation in this city, and try and change the perception and reality that Saint John is a bike-unfriendly city. Cheers.

[sailor734]

My initial skepticism about suggestions like this revolve around not having answers to two critical questions. 1. Cost?( both capital and ongoing maintenance) and 2. Number of users?

I think anytime governments look at spending public funds on infrastructure those two factors need to be front and center. Benefits and number of people served have to justify costs and government has to justify a particular project being chosen over other uses for limited funds. Most benefit to the most people.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by bingun

I didn't watch it for my own sanity, but it seems like the Lorneville rezoning meeting ended last night in about 2 hours. From listening to the last few minutes, it seems they finished up with all the 'against' speakers, which is a surprise. They adjourned the meeting with the intention of having a fresh meeting for the 'for' speakers.

I am interested to see who is planning to speak at that meeting. In my opinion, these need to be strong speakers with clear presentations to support. The 'intro' presentations given by city staff at the first meeting were not great, and most of them sounded terrified in front of the larger audience.

Edit

CBC coverage of last night - https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-bruns...lic-hearing-saint-john-council-1.7551707

We have our answer to what the 'Green Manufacturing' Project is.



https://tj.news/saint-john-south/industrial-park-public-hearing-adjourned-for-a-third-time

Hearing "ammonia" certainly raises questions in my mind. No idea if the proposed hydrogen ammonia plant creates the same potential risks but Googling "ammonia leaks" and "most deadly ammonia leaks" returns a ton of scary news stories including one from the 90's with 129 deaths and over 1,000 injuries.

If I lived in the area I wouldn't consider such a facility "not heavy industry"

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

My initial skepticism about suggestions like this revolve around not having answers to two critical questions. 1. Cost?( both capital and ongoing maintenance) and 2. Number of users?

I think anytime governments look at spending public funds on infrastructure those two factors need to be front and center. Benefits and number of people served have to justify costs and government has to justify a particular project being chosen over other uses for limited funds. Most benefit to the most people.

what about consideration for how disconnected the West Side became because of the freeway?

The benefits would be huge, as it would better connect thousands of people to walkable shopping. I think Fairville Plaza is also a prime place to build a nice, tall apartment tower, which would be walking distance from all the shopping that anyone could possibly need. There's all kinds of room left to build on at Fairville Plaza, and a pedestrian/bicycle overpass would especially make the location attractive for a residential development, as it would connect the residents to the many scenic parks and beaches of Fundy Heights.

Blaine Higgs clearly dgaf about incorporating a pedestrian/cyclist crossing into the Harbour Bridge reconstruction... no, he seemed rather to prioritize the cheaper, slowest repair job money could buy instead. Widening the deck of the Harbour bridge to allow a pathway for pedestrians and cyclists is still something well worth studying. As a West Sider, I can't think of two bigger needs for pedestrians and cyclists than a quicker passage across the harbour, and a pedestrian overpass across the throughway. Going for a bike ride around Fundy Heights is great, but riding to the side of the throughway where all the shopping is, is a huge pain in the ass.

A pedestrian overpass connected to Fairville at Molson Ave would be the most logical location to build a pedestrian overpass across the throughway on the entire West Side. I've looked the map up and down dozens of times, and I don't think there's a single better location to build a pedestrian overpass on the entire throughway, than right there. I'm sure quite a lot of cyclists would use it even if it had stairs that they had to carry their bike up, but it would especially be useful for promoting pedestrianism on the West Side. The land is all provincially owned though, so the DTI would have to be central to getting anything done there. The city doesn't exactly have anything to lose by trying to get the DTI to build a pedestrian overpass there. I'd call it a project of provincial interest for sure.

It was the province and the DTI that unleashed the throughway on West Siders and bisected the entire sector... it should be the province and the DTI that work on solutions to fix that. Even if it's 50 years too late.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Hearing "ammonia" certainly raises questions in my mind. No idea if the proposed hydrogen ammonia plant creates the same potential risks but Googling "ammonia leaks" and "most deadly ammonia leaks" returns a ton of scary news stories including one from the 90's with 129 deaths and over 1,000 injuries.

If I lived in the area I wouldn't consider such a facility "not heavy industry"

I can only assume early 1990s Senegal is on par regarding environmental and safety standards with 2020s Canada.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

I can only assume early 1990s Senegal is on par regarding environmental and safety standards with 2020s Canada.

Oh, no doubt that isn't an apples to apples comparison but it does show a worst case scenario. Still. there are lot's of news reports of leaks in North America sending workers/firefighters or area residents to hospital and in some cases causing death.

It probably isn't any more dangerous than some other existing industries in SJ. However, it does cast doubt on city staff's characterization of the type of industry to be allowed there (light, green, clean etc etc)

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Hearing "ammonia" certainly raises questions in my mind. No idea if the proposed hydrogen ammonia plant creates the same potential risks but Googling "ammonia leaks" and "most deadly ammonia leaks" returns a ton of scary news stories including one from the 90's with 129 deaths and over 1,000 injuries.

If I lived in the area I wouldn't consider such a facility "not heavy industry"

I don't know if it's anything to do with Anhydrous Ammonia, but I know that's some pretty dangerous stuff that's used for industrial scale fertilizers.

It's pretty freaking crazy Brent Harris leaked that specific detail of the proposal, when the proponent, the city, and our regional development agency were all very specific about referring to it as a green manufacturing facility. I don't exactly think it sounds like a fertilizer plant or something, but who knows what it could actually be. Councillor Harris seems to have broken privilege, or at the very least, he's said something he wasn't supposed to say publicly.

Brent Harris is truly the the biggest and loosest cannon on city council. Having seen first hand how he treated West Side residents in trying to push through his idea to turn the Belyea Arena into something one step above a homeless shelter, it was clear this guy only cares about furthering his own political ambitions, and is willing to do so through any means necessary. He was unbelievably confrontational and downright disrespectful towards West Siders as he tried to promote that terrible proposal of his... I can just imagine how he's been towards the people of Lorneville throughout this ordeal, especially if he supports the proposed expansion, and thinks he can take credit for getting this done. From what I've watched of the council meetings, he's the only member of council that has been confrontational or combative with the people speaking against the proposal throughout this entire process... and the dustup in the last meeting was the most explosive for sure... the city really needs to enable their comment section.

I shudder to think how Brent Harris would approach municipal governance should he run for mayor in the next election and somehow actually win. Mayor Reardon might not be quite as charismatic as Mayor Darling was, but she also doesn't waste countless hours arguing with people on social media, which is a good thing. Brent Harris does even more online arguing and pot stirring online than Don Darling did, especially if Harris starts arguing with you in the DMs.

This latest malfeasance with the blog leak is the least surprising thing ever for anyone that's followed Brent Harris and his time on council. I very much doubt it was an honest mistake either.

[CharlotteCountyLogan]

From my limited knowledge of city politics i don't think Brent Harris will run for mayor or if he does win. He doesn't seem popular or mayoral quality. There are other candidates who are more likely to run such as Norton and the deputy mayor.

[bingun]

Below is the 'Op-Ed' in question from Brent Harris if you'd like to read it.

https://brentharris4sj.ca/op-eds/lorneville

While much of this is fluff, I agree with this part. I believe John Williamson's involvement in this is purely a matter of political opportunism. If the conservatives had won the election, I imagine he would have taken the opposite position.

However, democracy has spoken loud and clear about these matters in our recent federal and provincial elections. The Conservative Party of Canada through it’s leader Pierre Poilievre ran on a platform of cutting municipal red tape. Pierre said on March 25, 2025 to CTV

“Poilievre was in Jonquiere, Que.., to announce that a Conservative government would create what he calls “shovel-ready zones” with pre-approved construction permits for major resource or energy projects.

“We block everything in this country,” Poilievre said. “We get in our own way. It takes 17 years to get a mine approved in Canada.”

Despite this quote, MP John Williamson wrote us a letter encouraging us to turn this down. The letter from Mr Williamson didn’t attempt to give justification for the separation between his position on this and his party leaders’ position.

[bingun]

The TJ also wrote an extensive article on 421 Woodward Avenue.

https://tj.news/saint-john-south/council...wo-six-storey-buildings-in-millidgeville

At Large Coun. Gary Sullivan thanked the developers but said he was “really struggling” with the project, because of past experiences including a four-storey building at Millidge Avenue and Daniel Avenue approved in 2020, with Sullivan as the lone vote against.

“That’s four storeys next to single storeys, (which) I think is big,” Sullivan told council. “I appreciate that you’re here talking about it and that you care, but I just can’t get past thinking, what if it that other building had six storeys.”

Ward 4 Coun. Greg Stewart echoed Sullivan’s comments, saying it was “just too much in that area,” and Lowe, addressing Mendiratta, said “we don’t want to lose you from Saint John,” but asked for the project to be redesigned to four storeys.

Mendiratta said they were disappointed, saying they “put in all of our efforts,” and don’t have a direction to go forward from the city.

“We were told we ticked everything, all the boxes,” Mendiratta said. “If such a big site cannot have a six-storey, I don’t know which site can, so that’s something for the city to think now, do they want a six-storey or not?”

He said with the new building codes, “the math will not work” on anything between three or six storeys. He said he understands residents’ concerns and believes it’s the designer’s job to address them.

“It’s like a baby, right, it was like our own baby, it was one and a half years of work,” Mendiratta said.