The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[bingun]

The city has released its 2026 budget survey today. I provided feedback encouraging development and rezoning—a good opportunity to provide similar feedback if you feel that way.

https://shapeyourcitysaintjohn.ca/shape-your-budget

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

That’s a pretty impressive title for Port Saint John. It’s no longer a question of if, but rather when the port of Saint John will surpass the port of Halifax in container traffic.

Significant further expansions and further enhancements of Port Saint John’s operations seem very much in line with the Prime Minister’s ambitious vision to restructure and expand Canada’s transatlantic trading relationships. Here’s hoping for some big news to come on that front!

[bingun]

From next Monday's council meeting.

[sailor734]

Speed cushions? ......... and bike lanes that will be empty 99% of the time. Seems like the city's goal is to tie traffic up and make it less convenient/take longer to get around the city.

[Helladog]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Speed cushions? ......... and bike lanes that will be empty 99% of the time. Seems like the city's goal is to toi traffic up and make it less convenient/take longer to get around the city.

Speed cushions punish everyone regardless of speed. They have some in Freddy, and are terrible. That's a lot of streets with plenty of traffic to put them on too; they're usually on quiet residential streets, not well travelled throughfares.

So as the potholes are filled, traffic will have something else to dodge.

[bingun]

A bike lane to the Stanley Street pedestrian overpass is an interesting choice. I really hope they are securing some external funding related to the Trans Canada Trail. I'd rather they spend the money on making that overpass less terrifying.

[darkharbour]

City Road will be amazing to have as a bike connection, can’t wait!

[sailor734]

I'd love to see the study showing what the projected daily usage will be for this additional bike lane. Are we building it for 5-10 people a day or 500-1000? Big difference when deciding if this is a sensible use of public funds or just green virtue signaling.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by Helladog

Speed cushions punish everyone regardless of speed. They have some in Freddy, and are terrible. That's a lot of streets with plenty of traffic to put them on too; they're usually on quiet residential streets, not well travelled throughfares.

So as the potholes are filled, traffic will have something else to dodge.

The ones in Fredericton are fine. They are typically on streets that are residential and are either used as short cuts or thoroughfares. Considering multiple died last year due to reckless speeding on one of those streets (pre speed cushions), I'm ok with them.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Speed cushions? ......... and bike lanes that will be empty 99% of the time. Seems like the city's goal is to tie traffic up and make it less convenient/take longer to get around the city.

Or perhaps the goal is to make things safer for everyone?

[Franco401]

Saint John has the most overbuilt car infrastructure of any city in Canada. The idea that gridlock (or any meaningful delay at all) will result from this is laughable. Countless cases have shown that when you have a four-lane street with no turning lanes like Station St/City Rd, taking away one of those travel lanes has no negative effect on congestion. City Rd has so many driveways that left turns are sketchy across two lanes, and waiting to turn left means blocking a travel lane. The slide shows a center turning lane, which will probably only extend a couple blocks to Stanley, but traffic flow and safety could be improved considerably if this was extended to all of City Rd and Rothesay Rd.

What's not great is the design of that lane at that intersection. The bike lane with the travel lane on the left and the turning lane on the right is gonna scare inexperienced cyclists (especially those just trying to get from Harbour Passage to Rockwood) right back onto the sidewalk.

[adamuptownsj]

Bike lanes are a total joke, especially if the city isn't going to start ticketing bikes driving against traffic, blowing through lights and stop signs, and using the sidewalks as they please. All 15 cycling advocates in the city can get stuffed. Orienting the city around their whims has to come to an end. There's loads of places that lack functional pedestrian infrastructure, bus services remain spotty, and roads are minefields. Council is oiling the squeakiest, smallest wheel with everyone else's money, for no particular reason.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Bike lanes are a total joke, especially if the city isn't going to start ticketing bikes driving against traffic, blowing through lights and stop signs, and using the sidewalks as they please. All 15 cycling advocates in the city can get stuffed. Orienting the city around their whims has to come to an end. There's loads of places that lack functional pedestrian infrastructure, bus services remain spotty, and roads are minefields. Council is oiling the squeakiest, smallest wheel with everyone else's money, for no particular reason.

[bingun]

Broad Street is another strange choice for a bike lane. If you were commuting or trying to come uptown, you wouldn't be going around the perimter of the peninsula to be anywhere close to it. I assume it's related to the new school, but I can't picture anybody taking their child to school on a bike down Broad Street.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Bike lanes are a total joke, especially if the city isn't going to start ticketing bikes driving against traffic, blowing through lights and stop signs, and using the sidewalks as they please. All 15 cycling advocates in the city can get stuffed. Orienting the city around their whims has to come to an end. There's loads of places that lack functional pedestrian infrastructure, bus services remain spotty, and roads are minefields. Council is oiling the squeakiest, smallest wheel with everyone else's money, for no particular reason.

How are they a joke? We're talking about adding the lanes to roads that are being rebuilt in the first place, so the cost delta is extremely minimal between having no lane and having a lane.

What possible downsides are you suggesting exist? We do not have congestion in this city, so it couldn't be the unfounded traffic concerns that exist around road diets, and in response to the suggestion about ticketing, wouldn't adding more lanes directly address those? If we have proper lanes and intersections, people won't cycle on the sidewalks or go against traffic, for example.

And believe it or not, I am not a cycling activist and I am not a member of those groups at all, but I can see the value in modernizing our disastrously old infrastructure to provide more options for residents who want to perhaps cycle to work or meet friends, which I will gladly do more once these projects are completed.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

How are they a joke? We're talking about adding the lanes to roads that are being rebuilt in the first place, so the cost delta is extremely minimal between having no lane and having a lane.

What possible downsides are you suggesting exist? We do not have congestion in this city, so it couldn't be the unfounded traffic concerns that exist around road diets, and in response to the suggestion about ticketing, wouldn't adding more lanes directly address those? If we have proper lanes and intersections, people won't cycle on the sidewalks or go against traffic, for example.

And believe it or not, I am not a cycling activist and I am not a member of those groups at all, but I can see the value in modernizing our disastrously old infrastructure to provide more options for residents who want to perhaps cycle to work or meet friends, which I will gladly do more once these projects are completed.

But why go to the effort of putting bike lanes in for what appears to be virtually no demand? I drive between Millidgeville and the hospital fairly often and between Millidgeville and uptown 2-3 times a day. Seeing a bike in a bike lane is a rare enough occurrence to really stand out in your mind. Like sighting a rare bird. However, getting stuck behind a cement truck or a loaded dump truck crawling up Somerset St hill (that used to have a passing lane pre bike lanes) at 20 kph isn't

[homebody]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Bike lanes are a total joke, especially if the city isn't going to start ticketing bikes driving against traffic, blowing through lights and stop signs, and using the sidewalks as they please. All 15 cycling advocates in the city can get stuffed. Orienting the city around their whims has to come to an end. There's loads of places that lack functional pedestrian infrastructure, bus services remain spotty, and roads are minefields. Council is oiling the squeakiest, smallest wheel with everyone else's money, for no particular reason.

I agree this whole bike lane thing is a joke!!! What a waste of taxpayer money. Ya know I wish the government would start making these people somehow pay a registration fee! Even in non bike lane areas they drive like they own the road.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Bike lanes are a total joke, especially if the city isn't going to start ticketing bikes driving against traffic, blowing through lights and stop signs, and using the sidewalks as they please. All 15 cycling advocates in the city can get stuffed. Orienting the city around their whims has to come to an end. There's loads of places that lack functional pedestrian infrastructure, bus services remain spotty, and roads are minefields. Council is oiling the squeakiest, smallest wheel with everyone else's money, for no particular reason.

What a load of utter nonsense. The notion that the city is oriented around the whims of cycling advocates is beyond absurd. If the city was actually beholden to the interests of, "bike freaks", we'd have way more multi use paths than the Harbour Passage, and there would be way more bike lanes. You can tell you reallly don't get out of Saint John much, man! You should!

Originally Posted by sailor734

But why go to the effort of putting bike lanes in for what appears to be virtually no demand? I drive between Millidgeville and the hospital fairly often and between Millidgeville and uptown 2-3 times a day. Seeing a bike in a bike lane is a rare enough occurrence to really stand out in your mind. Like sighting a rare bird. However, getting stuck behind a cement truck or a loaded dump truck crawling up Somerset St hill (that used to have a passing lane pre bike lanes) at 20 kph isn't

Do you think more people would use a ferry between the West Side and Uptown than these bike lanes?

Personally, the lack of bike lanes and lack of separate bike paths (which we're still sorely lacking) is something that I've always felt was holding Saint John back. This city is way too car centric, so it's always funny to see you and Adam chime in like clockwork here on a forum that is largely devoted to urbanism and composed of people who are mostly in favour of things like bike lanes.

What the city reallly is lacking, is city bike stations!



Saint John should have multiple bike rental stations like this along the harbour passage, and near some of the most used bike lanes. As great as bike lanes and bike paths are, bike theft remains a big problem in Saint John, and city bike rental stations where you could cheaply rent a bike would take a lot of that worry away.

I guess Bike Share Toronto has over 800 locations now.. we could make quite a big impact here in Saint John with even a dozen stations.

[sailor734]

"Most used Bike paths" Which would those be? The ones with 10 users per day?

The fiscal viability of bike rental stations is likely marginal at best and perhaps more likely to be unrealistic.

Not perhaps quite as over the top ridiculous as a harbour ferry (or even more fantasyland....... a tunnel) but still very likely to be economically unworkable. Given the length of our season, relatively sparse population and demographic of our visitors I just don't see how the numbers would work

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

"Most used Bike paths" Which would those be? The ones with 10 users per day?

The fiscal viability of bike rental stations is likely marginal at best and perhaps more likely to be unrealistic.

Not perhaps quite as over the top ridiculous as a harbour ferry (or even more fantasyland....... a tunnel) but still very likely to be economically unworkable. Given the length of our season, relatively sparse population and demographic of our visitors I just don't see how the numbers would work

Now that's the attitude, sailor!

Again, Toronto has 800 stations... we could make a real impact with a dozen stations, or less. How much do you think these bikes and the stations actually cost? It seems you think all government funds towards transportation in Saint John, and screw everything else? come on lol. At least your neighbourhood has a ferry pedestrians can take! I guess mine does too, if I want to go all the way to Nova Scotia.

A harbour ferry is a "ridiculous, fantasyland suggestion", even though such a ferry did exist in the 1950s.

For a guy who calls himself a sailor, you sure seem dedicated to keeping Saint John's transportation focussed on motor vehicles and roadways. I believe your idea for the lack of a harbour ferry was some sort of express bus service that ran all day. Which is a decent idea, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't exactly give people the experience of crossing the harbour, nor is it at all marketable in terms of tourism. Sometimes what's good for tourism is also good for residents... or as former mayor Mel Norton talked about it regarding the water taxi or a ferry between the West Side and Uptown... a sort of internal tourism. I know you're not a big picture guy and a very serious realist who only cares about how this city works for you in your own finite time on earth... but some of us want to see it improved not just for our time here, but after we leave.

Saint John losing the harbour ferry was a tremendous loss, and even if it was a little bit before your time, you're old enough to know people who know how awesome it was. I'll give Adam the benefit of the doubt based on how young he is, but you have no excuse, you know a ferry worked in the past, and know it could work again in the future.



How much cooler would our harbour look if we saw something like this streaking across it every day? Even if it was a much more scaled back type of vessel, it would still be a tremendous addition to the city, and something deserving a provincial and federal funding so people like you won't moan about how your property tax dollars shouldn't be going towards something like that.

As for the tunnels, I'd challenge you to actually find a credible source that backs up the "billion dollar" you and others on this sub blurt out anytime they come across an idea you think would be too expensive. Tunnel technology has some a long, long way, and it may very well be a more viable option than you believe.


The Harbour used to look like this too...

Massive engineering projects did happen in Saint John in the past, and we saw the forces of man and industry fundamentally transform the built and natural environments of this city, and a lot of it was thanks to federal investments. Look how much land has been reclaimed from the Sea over the years... it's amazing what can actually get done when people think of the possibility of big, bold ideas. Saint John wasn't built by realists and naysayers, it was built by people who believed something better was possible. Should we not be pushing for some massive investments in Saint John? I think the timing is right for Saint John's political and economic leaders to take this opportunity to advocate for big, ambitious projects, while we have the "great builder" in the PMO.

I remain optimistic that there could be an opportunity for a tunnel between the West Side and Central Peninsula... it could be tied in with port expansion and land reclamation projects on both sides of the harbour. If such a project meant a rail tunnel to connect Lower Cove and the West Side Docks, plus a road+pedestrian tunnel, along with crucial land reclaimed for port expansion, it would be a billion dollar + project well worth it. The rumoured Lorneville port expansion is also worth the multi billion dollar price tag, obviously.

If Saint John is able to secure multi billion dollar investments in the Port of Saint John, which very well could be possible given the way the Prime Minister is talking about big national projects that will enhance Canada's trading relations, it's also possible we could get a tunnel built connecting the two historic peninsulas of this city. It would also be within the realm of possibilities to get a harbour ferry back. If we want to make this the finest port city in G7 like our MP says, then I think we should all start believing in the power of big ideas. To quote the PM himself... "build big, build bold, build now".