ATLANTA TRANSIT (Marta, Beltline, Peachtree Streetcar, LovJoy Commuter, etc...)

[GeorgiaPeanuts]

By their logic, how does expanding transit to an area where people already aren't driving going to reduce congestion? I don't know how true saying the southside is completely transit dependent is.

[cparker73]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaPeanuts

By their logic, how does expanding transit to an area where people already aren't driving going to reduce congestion? I don't know how true saying the southside is completely transit dependent is.

I'm not sure there's a lot of congestion in the Campbellton corridor that the light rail will be using. The tram will essentially replace existing bus service, which is heavily used. I know there's a long-term goal of revitalizing that whole corridor and concentrating new housing along this route, which would help revitalize what had been a booming part of the city during the 70s and 80s. The current residents are aging out of their homes, so it's ripe for a new generation of homeowners and businesses to come in.

[Julien]

MARTA is renaming the GWCC/CNN Center Station. Why in the hell didn't they also rename Civic Center Station? That is one out of date and irrelevant name of the station.

[Julien]

Beep autonomous vehicles coming to the Beltline before FIFA Wold Cup. This is the same vehicle used in Cumberland.

AJC https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-news/br...ilot-program/YT7K5ABJGBCLNC5ZGWJPEK676I/

The Atlanta Beltline has plans for a $3 million pilot program to bring autonomous vehicles to the Westside Trail in advance of the FIFA World Cup games.

The plans were made public Monday at a specially called meeting of the Atlanta-Region Transit Link Authority. Beltline officials have proposed a 12-month trial featuring four driverless shuttles from Beep, the same Florida-based company that operated self-driving shuttles in Cobb County’s Cumberland district during Atlanta Braves games and other events.

Starting next January, the pilot will put Beep shuttles on a roughly 2-mile route between the Atlanta University Center, MARTA’s West End Station and the Lee + White Entertainment District that is adjacent to the Westside Trail.

[tinyslam]

Wow 4 shuttles with a capacity of 10 people each running in regular traffic. All for the low price of $3 million.

[shivtim]

Good that it won't actually be running on the bike/ped trail (what a debacle the announcement of this was) but also why is the Beltline Inc wanting to spend $3 million on some shuttles that will still require drivers and run in mixed traffic? If this is some critical link why not just have a MARTA route here paid for through a combo of MARTA/COA/FIFA/Lee+White?

[Julien]

Originally Posted by shivtim

Good that it won't actually be running on the bike/ped trail (what a debacle the announcement of this was) but also why is the Beltline Inc wanting to spend $3 million on some shuttles that will still require drivers and run in mixed traffic? If this is some critical link why not just have a MARTA route here paid for through a combo of MARTA/COA/FIFA/Lee+White?

Please read the article. There are NO DRIVERS. These are autonomes shuttles. Also this is a trial/test and will likely expand and/or easily change routes. The $3M cost likely covers a lot of "extra" stuff like studies, evaluation and other related projects.

"...The buses [DriverLESS Shuttles] will operate in general traffic lanes without a dedicated right-of-way. Rides during the trial will be free or require a modest fare, Green said. Those details still need to be worked out.

Beep has been courting Beltline officials for two years and sees Atlanta as a key market, Vice Chairman Joe Moye said in an interview. In addition to the Cumberland pilot, Beep has tested its vehicles at the Curiosity Lab at Peachtree Corners...."

[shivtim]

Originally Posted by Julien

Please read the article. There are NO DRIVERS. These are autonomes shuttles. Also this is a trial/test and will likely expand and/or easily change routes. The $3M cost likely covers a lot of "extra" stuff like studies, evaluation and other related projects.

"...The buses [DriverLESS Shuttles] will operate in general traffic lanes without a dedicated right-of-way. Rides during the trial will be free or require a modest fare, Green said. Those details still need to be worked out.

Beep has been courting Beltline officials for two years and sees Atlanta as a key market, Vice Chairman Joe Moye said in an interview. In addition to the Cumberland pilot, Beep has tested its vehicles at the Curiosity Lab at Peachtree Corners...."

You can use all caps and tell me to read the article all you want; autonomous Beep shuttles are all staffed with an operator due to NHTSA rules. We literally have Beep shuttles here in metro Atlanta if you want to go check for yourself.

Cumberland: "The shuttle attendant will always be onboard while it is operational... The shuttle attendant can take over manually at any time by utilizing a controller on board."
Peachtree City: "The fleet... will include onboard safety operators."

[Julien]

Originally Posted by shivtim

You can use all caps and tell me to read the article all you want; autonomous Beep shuttles are all staffed with an operator due to NHTSA rules. We literally have Beep shuttles here in metro Atlanta if you want to go check for yourself.

There is no NHTSA regulation requiring a human driver in a car. You do know there are dozens of Waymos driving around Atlanta right now 24/7 with no human in them at all.

This is current Beep policy and is supposed to change soon. As of now Beep supplies the safety operator as part of the service since it is their current requirement. This could change before the service starts. If Beep can't meet their goal of removing their safety operator then the compony will fail.

There are other options. While Zoox (by Amazon) doesn't do standard shuttle service their vehicle is a great example. They are testing in Las Vegas (no operators) expanding to Miami, SF and Austin next.

https://zoox.com/know-your-ride/

Here are 2 Waymos driving on Piedmont with no humans in either one.

[Julien]

Just to add Waymo service is supposed to start in Atlanta in mid July. Here is the initial 65 sq mi coverage area. You sign up in the Uber app.

[shivtim]

I love that you post construction update photos from around the city but the rest of your posts are insufferable

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by shivtim

I love that you post construction update photos from around the city but the rest of your posts are insufferable

They really are

I think he's right in this case, though. There's no regulation I know of that requires drivers. The company is just using them for liability/testing reasons. And more to the point, $3 million would buy a few hundred feet of light rail at most. That's nothing in public budget terms.

I do agree with you that this is pointless though--not because of the drivers or the cost, but because it will be operating in a relatively desolate corner of the city, and like the streetcar, it has such a short route that it would be faster to walk instead. I doubt it will have much ridership.

[Julien]

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

They really are

I think he's right in this case, though. There's no regulation I know of that requires drivers. The company is just using them for liability/testing reasons. And more to the point, $3 million would buy a few hundred feet of light rail at most. That's nothing in public budget terms.

I do agree with you that this is pointless though--not because of the drivers or the cost, but because it will be operating in a relatively desolate corner of the city, and like the streetcar, it has such a short route that it would be faster to walk instead. I doubt it will have much ridership.

More insufferable but prudent info:

This tiny 2.2-mile extension of the streetcar will cost over $200 million and have already spent OVER $11 million just designing it. It will serve almost no one and will barely go anywhere in Atlanta. The privileged residents there are now NIMBYs, making the costs even higher and making the timeline much longer.



I understand that many people are captivated by the romantic allure of streetcars. However, it’s important to acknowledge that Atlanta, or any other major city, is unlikely to ever have a comprehensive streetcar system. The cost of such a project would exceed $10 billion, likely approaching $100 billion, and it would involve numerous decades of endless litigation and construction delays.

Right now we are in a radical transition with AI. Here is an Perplexity summery of the future of metro travel:

The future of metro transportation is undergoing a profound transformation as AI-controlled shuttles emerge as a central component of urban mobility systems. These autonomous shuttles, operating under concepts like Autonomous Shuttle-as-a-Service (ASaaS), are designed to provide sustainable, proximity-based mobility with minimal need for new infrastructure, significantly reducing both noise and pollution in densely populated areas[1]. Leveraging advanced artificial intelligence, these vehicles can dynamically plan routes, adapt in real time to traffic conditions, and coordinate with intelligent traffic management systems to alleviate congestion and optimize flow across the city[2][5].

AI-driven shuttles are not only capable of analyzing vast streams of data from sensors, cameras, and urban networks, but also of predicting passenger demand and adjusting services accordingly, offering a flexible and responsive transit experience[2][5]. This adaptability enhances connectivity, making public transportation more accessible and inclusive, especially for underserved communities and those with mobility challenges[1][3]. Furthermore, the integration of AI and federated learning in these systems introduces new opportunities for responsible, privacy-preserving data sharing, though it also raises important questions about security, transparency, and ethical deployment[4].

As these technologies mature, metro transportation will become increasingly characterized by seamless multimodal integration, environmental sustainability through electric fleets, and a passenger-centric approach that prioritizes safety, efficiency, and user experience. While challenges remain-such as ensuring the generalizability and safety of AI models, managing regulatory frameworks, and addressing social implications-the shift toward AI-controlled shuttles represents a pivotal step toward the realization of intelligent, resilient, and future-ready urban transit networks[1][2][4][5].

Sources
[1] Autonomous Shuttle-as-a-Service (ASaaS): Challenges, Opportunities, and
Social Implications https://arxiv.org/pdf/2001.09763.pdf
[2] AI-Driven Scenarios for Urban Mobility: Quantifying the Role of ODE
Models and Scenario Planning in Reducing Traffic Congestion https://arxiv.org/abs/2410.19915
[3] MetaUrban: An Embodied AI Simulation Platform for Urban Micromobility https://arxiv.org/html/2407.08725v2
[4] Responsible Federated Learning in Smart Transportation: Outlooks and
Challenges http://arxiv.org/pdf/2404.06777.pdf
[5] Futuristic Intelligent Transportation System https://arxiv.org/pdf/2105.09493.pdf
[6] Artificial Intelligence in Traffic Systems https://arxiv.org/pdf/2412.12046.pdf
[7] Generative AI-enabled Vehicular Networks: Fundamentals, Framework, and
Case Study https://arxiv.org/pdf/2304.11098.pdf
[8] Autonomous buses in public transport, a driverless future ahead? https://www.sustainable-bus.com/its/autonomous-bus-public-transport-driverless-driverless/
[9] The Future of the Driverless Shuttle Bus Industry in the United States https://www.metropolitanshuttle.com/the-...uttle-bus-industry-in-the-united-states/
[10] AI-assisted Public Transport Systems: Revolutionizing Urban Mobility https://uppcsmagazine.com/ai-assisted-public-transport-systems-revolutionizing-urban-mobility/
[11] AI in transportation: Redefining metro systems - Ultralytics https://www.ultralytics.com/blog/ai-in-transportation-redefining-metro-systems
[12] Next-Gen Autonomous Public Transport: AI-Piloted Buses and ... https://www.thefuturelist.com/next-gen-a...nd-shuttles-transforming-urban-mobility/
[13] Artificial Intelligence: Transforming Public Sector Transit Services https://www.cogentinfo.com/resources/art...nsforming-public-sector-transit-services
[14] AI for Autonomous Public Transportation - Redefining Urban Mobility https://fpgainsights.com/artificial-intelligence/ai-for-autonomous-public-transportation/
[15] AI in Public Transit: Enhancing Safety & Efficiency - Newo.ai https://newo.ai/insights/revolutionizing...ith-ai-safety-and-schedule-optimization/
[16] 7 ways AI technology can boost sustainable logistics - Maersk https://www.maersk.com/insights/sustaina...chnology-can-boost-sustainable-logistics
[17] AI and Machine Learning Are Shaping the Future of Public Transit https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/ai-and-machine-learning-are-shaping-future-public-transit
[18] A Neural-Evolutionary Algorithm for Autonomous Transit Network Design http://arxiv.org/pdf/2403.07917.pdf
[19] Real-Time Bus Departure Prediction Using Neural Networks for Smart IoT
Public Bus Transit https://arxiv.org/html/2501.10514v1
[20] The 5th AI City Challenge https://arxiv.org/pdf/2104.12233.pdf

[Julien]

A little tangential, Lime reported record-breaking usage in Atlanta for April (and so far this year), with 210,657 rides. We also have at least one other scooter company, Byrd. As a runner, I do dislike them, and they are often in the way. However, they do contribute to the economy and improve the quality of life by providing democratized and affordable transportation options.

https://roughdraftatlanta.com/2025/05/11...usage-of-micromobility-fleet-in-atlanta/

[RATBOYKEV]

Originally Posted by Julien

There are other options. While Zoox (by Amazon) doesn't do standard shuttle service their vehicle is a great example. They are testing in Las Vegas (no operators) expanding to Miami, SF and Austin next.

On a related note - I caught Zoox testing just south of GA Tech a couple of weeks ago.

https://youtube.com/shorts/j4ibcxvIbmk?feature=share

[montydawg]

Autonomous shuttles are no more efficient than driving people around in cars. They take up lots of space on the road per passenger, and the mechanical upkeep is high per rider. The extra cost of maintaining all the computers is offset by the salaries of just hiring drivers at this point. These are the ‘monorails’ of the 2020s.

Also, several US cities have implemented successful streetcar networks, such as Minneapolis, Dallas, Seattle, Phoenix, Portland, LA, and Boston, to name a few. Sure there are cities with underutilized systems, but they are generally the ones that never expanded. They need to lower the legal burdens on building transit as that is a huge problem here in the USA

[cabasse]

Originally Posted by Julien

I understand that many people are captivated by the romantic allure of streetcars. However, it’s important to acknowledge that Atlanta, or any other major city, is unlikely to ever have a comprehensive streetcar system. The cost of such a project would exceed $10 billion, likely approaching $100 billion, and it would involve numerous decades of endless litigation and construction delays.

this seems like quite an unfounded assertion. technically light rail is a streetcar, though one with more cars. the fairly suburban city of calgary, alberta - metro population 1.4M, has about 3x the daily ridership on its CTrain "streetcar" as atlanta does on it's "grade separated metro subway"

most of the planned streetcar/LRT would be grade separated along the beltline, but street running in downtown, just as CTrain is (and other light metro systems)

• Video Link

street running portion downtown starts @20:05

[Julien]

Originally Posted by RATBOYKEV

On a related note - I caught Zoox testing just south of GA Tech a couple of weeks ago.

https://youtube.com/shorts/j4ibcxvIbmk?feature=share

Cool Beans. That is of course an HD Mapping mule and not the shuttle, but it is Zoox.

[RocketSurgeon]

Originally Posted by montydawg

Autonomous shuttles are no more efficient than driving people around in cars. They take up lots of space on the road per passenger, and the mechanical upkeep is high per rider. The extra cost of maintaining all the computers is offset by the salaries of just hiring drivers at this point. These are the ‘monorails’ of the 2020s.

You're forgetting two really important factors, montydawg. First, the cost of operating autonomous vehicles is decreasing substantially and will continue to do so. Second, a competition between a vehicle that can go anywhere in the city and a rail transit system that hasn't added a single station in 25 years isn't really a competition at all. If anything, MARTA is the monorail right now. Its ridership has plummeted in recent years even as intown neighborhoods are growing and thriving. It's basically defunct at this point and may never expand again. I like rail and wish that wasn't true, but it's the reality we live in.

Edit, just to add a little more: People absolutely want to get around the city without driving their own cars. There's huge demand for it. The private sector sees that demand and is racing to meet it with all sorts of options. Meanwhile, the public sector is wasting millions of taxpayer dollars on studies and building nothing. It's pretty obvious where this is heading.

[lux]

Originally Posted by RocketSurgeon

You're forgetting two really important factors, montydawg. First, the cost of operating autonomous vehicles is decreasing substantially and will continue to do so. Second, a competition between a vehicle that can go anywhere in the city and a rail transit system that hasn't added a single station in 25 years isn't really a competition at all. If anything, MARTA is the monorail right now. Its ridership has plummeted in recent years even as intown neighborhoods are growing and thriving. It's basically defunct at this point and may never expand again. I like rail and wish that wasn't true, but it's the reality we live in.

Edit, just to add a little more: People absolutely want to get around the city without driving their own cars. There's huge demand for it. The private sector sees that demand and is racing to meet it with all sorts of options. Meanwhile, the public sector is wasting millions of taxpayer dollars on studies and building nothing. It's pretty obvious where this is heading.

People say that transit is infeasible in Atlanta to comfort themselves that the current state of affairs is somehow "normal" or because of some sort of market equilibrium. This is a city that by global standards is downright hostile to pedestrians, bikes, and transit riders. You have literally convinced yourself that Atlanta - a city that obeys the same laws of physics and that is populated by the exact same species of animals, humans - is somehow impossibly unique in regards to transit because they decided to tear out the streetcar tracks and build urban interstates far less than a century ago. If people didn't convince themselves that total car dependency is inevitable, then there would be far greater pressure to make this place one that is pleasant to get around in. And maybe I'd be able to safely ride my bike to the grocery store. One of the most basic amenities of urban density (accessibility, mobility) is borderline non-existent in this city and people pretend that it makes perfect sense and it is driving me nuts.

On driverless cars - they're a fun invention, impressive even. But driverless cars are literally just ubers minus the driver. Sure, that's nice, but they are still expensive, space consuming, loud, dangerous, and do not fundamentally address the geometry problem that cars pose in cities.