Statistics Canada Reports II

[Nite]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

It looks like the Kitchener-Waterloo region is catching up to Hamilton's metro population. Does the K-W area feel as big as Hamilton?

K-W is 3 smaller cities with their own downtown compared to Hamilton which is one city with a downtown larger than all 3 of the K-W cities downtown combined.
Hamilton is on another level than K-W. Hamilton in closer to Ottawa than K-W to Hamilton in my opinion.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Alberta has a healthy balance of immigration, the youngest population in the country, and strong in-migration from every other province. Even that however, due to probably another downward revision when the new quarterly report comes out, we will see it fall back to under 5 million, if only by a bit.

Think of how amazing Canada would be if every province had positive interprovincial migration and attracted lots of young people from every other province.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Nite

K-W is 3 smaller cities with their own downtown compared to Hamilton which is one city with a downtown larger than all 3 of the K-W cities downtown combined.
Hamilton is on another level than K-W. Hamilton in closer to Ottawa than K-W to Hamilton in my opinion.

I totally agree. Hamilton feels like a city while KW feels like a bunch of towns connected by freeways. London is smaller than KWC but when downtown it feels bigger because it has, like Hamilton, a real heart while KWC just feels like a bunch of disconnected organs. KWC has always reminded me of the Niagara Region but without the Falls, pretty countryside, and vineyards.

In terms of urban form, Hamilton is Chicago while KWC is LA.

[TorontoDrew]

Waterloo has a decent downtown, it's small though, and Kitchener has good bones, it feels a lot like Hamilton to me, except it's much quieter than Steeltown. It does have a nice stock of old buildings and warehouse structures.

Waterloo
2025-05-12 (25) by Andrew Moore, on Flickr

Kitchener
2025-05-12 (27) by Andrew Moore, on Flickr

[Innsertnamehere]

Kitchener is increasingly becoming the definitive "Downtown" for KWC, but as a whole, yes, it still feels quite small. It's grown a LOT in the last 15 years though. 15 years ago it was literally a series of small towns, now Kitchener is feeling like a real city downtown, albeit a smaller one.

Hamilton has some of the best urbanist bones of any city in Canada, behind only probably Toronto, Montreal, Quebec, Ottawa, Vancouver, and maybe Winnipeg. It has many urban format retail streets, dense urban neighbourhoods, a busy downtown with dense highrises and historic skyscrapers.. etc.

[someone123]

I haven't been there in quite some time but 15 years ago, the urban core of Kitchener was roughly comparable to Moncton and they are from a similar era having started out with the railways and some small-ish industry. I am sure the growth in the region is becoming more important now relative to that legacy.

Hamilton is a bit of an odd duck in Canada and is like an American city in some ways. The Prairie cities are a bit similar but they don't have the same manufacturing era past and there's no other area in Canada like the GTA that has a Hamilton-sized city in its orbit. I don't think people are really mistaken to give it a lower profile than the other "major cities" in Canada; that just reflects its history and importance as a destination or participant in national level affairs rather than its demographic or economic weight. In a similar vein more Canadians have probably heard of Venice than Wuxi.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I totally agree. Hamilton feels like a city while KW feels like a bunch of towns connected by freeways. London is smaller than KWC but when downtown it feels bigger because it has, like Hamilton, a real heart while KWC just feels like a bunch of disconnected organs. KWC has always reminded me of the Niagara Region but without the Falls, pretty countryside, and vineyards.

In terms of urban form, Hamilton is Chicago while KWC is LA.

I was going to say, even London feels more big city than K-W does.

[trueviking]

Interesting to hear this discussion...not being from southern Ontario, all the names are familiar, but their differences are not well known.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Kitchener is increasingly becoming the definitive "Downtown" for KWC, but as a whole, yes, it still feels quite small. It's grown a LOT in the last 15 years though. 15 years ago it was literally a series of small towns, now Kitchener is feeling like a real city downtown, albeit a smaller one.

Hamilton has some of the best urbanist bones of any city in Canada, behind only probably Toronto, Montreal, Quebec, Ottawa, Vancouver, and maybe Winnipeg. It has many urban format retail streets, dense urban neighbourhoods, a busy downtown with dense highrises and historic skyscrapers.. etc.

That has always been the case, although Waterloo has the nicer retail strip.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by trueviking

Interesting to hear this discussion...not being from southern Ontario, all the names are familiar, but their differences are not well known.

KWC isn't even a combination of 3 cities but rather 5 as Cambridge amalgamated decades ago from it's previous 3 smaller cities......Preston, Galt, and Hespeler.

Niagara is a complete agglomeration of many different cities. There are the big 3 of St.Catherines 140k, NF 105k, and Welland of 60k but there are a whole plethora of smaller cities all between 15 to 30k including Grimsby, Lincoln, Thorald, Niagara-on-the-Lake, Port Colbourne, Fort Erie, and Pelham and some smaller rural towns outside those areas. Despite being a relatively small area but with 500k, the cities are areas themselves are actually surprisingly different from one another.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

KWC isn't even a combination of 3 cities but rather 5 as Cambridge amalgamated decades ago from it's previous 3 smaller cities......Preston, Galt, and Hespeler.

Niagara is a complete agglomeration of many different cities. There are the big 3 of St.Catherines 140k, NF 105k, and Welland of 60k but there are a whole plethora of smaller cities all between 15 to 30k including Grimsby, Lincoln, Thorald, Niagara-on-the-Lake, Port Colbourne, Fort Erie, and Pelham and some smaller rural towns outside those areas. Despite being a relatively small area but with 500k, the cities are areas themselves are actually surprisingly different from one another.

Niagara Region is now getting closer to 550k people
Every municipality is growing.

Niagara residents are lucky to be surrounded by water. Lake Ontario, Lake Erie, Niagara River and the famous Falls, Welland River/Chippawa Creek, the Welland Canal which plays a key role in Great Lakes shipping.
The Niagara escarpment provides good hiking and a microclimate. Good soils mean great farmland. Tender fruit, apples, grapes, etc. We're blessed with local fruit.
There's roughly 100 or so wineries now.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Niagara Region is now getting closer to 550k people
Every municipality is growing.

Niagara residents are lucky to be surrounded by water. Lake Ontario, Lake Erie, Niagara River and the famous Falls, Welland River/Chippawa Creek, the Welland Canal which plays a key role in Great Lakes shipping.
The Niagara escarpment provides good hiking and a microclimate. Good soils mean great farmland. Tender fruit, apples, grapes, etc. We're blessed with local fruit.
There's roughly 100 or so wineries now.

What's behind the change of fortunes in Niagara? Everything seems to be on an upward swing - population numbers, unemployment numbers, housing prices all seem to be heading in the same direction.

[craner]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Niagara Region is now getting closer to 550k people
Every municipality is growing.

Niagara residents are lucky to be surrounded by water. Lake Ontario, Lake Erie, Niagara River and the famous Falls, Welland River/Chippawa Creek, the Welland Canal which plays a key role in Great Lakes shipping.
The Niagara escarpment provides good hiking and a microclimate. Good soils mean great farmland. Tender fruit, apples, grapes, etc. We're blessed with local fruit.
There's roughly 100 or so wineries now.

Thank-you for this map Wigs - I know most of the names but this makes it simple to see where they all sit in relation to one another (and to Hamilton).

[Innsertnamehere]

Grimsby is a part of the Hamilton CMA.

Caledonia really should be as well, it's a commuter town of about 15,000. It's not included though as it's part of the amalgamated Haldimand County, which as a whole does not meet the commuting thresholds for inclusion in the Hamilton CMA, despite Caledonia meeting them quite strongly..

Niagara's economy has returned to growth lately with a return of some manufacturing uses.

I do think the rise of remote work has been a big benefit for Niagara as well - it benefits from relatively affordable real estate in a generally desirable area, nice micro-climate, etc.

The tourism industry in Niagara Falls went through a tough period in the 2010's, and had just started to pull out towards growth again in the 2018-2019 period. It's now returning to growth again as well.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

It looks like the Kitchener-Waterloo region is catching up to Hamilton's metro population. Does the K-W area feel as big as Hamilton?

Definitely not. It's so decentralized, with three "cities", except one of those cities is itself 3 towns that grew into each other. Plus some of the smaller villages being sucked in around the orbit.

The hills and river valley mean a couple things:
- as whole, not much of a cohesive road grid. Big parts of each city have a grid, but major arteries are very winding. Huge parts feel very sprawly - I drove into Kitchener for the first time in a couple years, via the Flambourough - Cambridge side, and it reminded me a lot of my recent trip to Nashville.

- you can't actually see very much of the city from any given point.

Numbers aside, Hamilton has a massive, cohesive downtown that you can see from a million vantage points throughout the city. And a never-ending grid of roads basically as far as the eye can see. So even when you can't actually see downtown, it unmistakable that you are seeing a very big city:

https://www.google.com/maps/@43.2314829,..._ep=EgoyMDI1MDUwNy4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Where did you find this chart, and do they have one for all Canadian cities (Winnipeg)?

[P'tit Renard]

Chart of the day posted by Ivey's Mike Moffatt:



https://x.com/MikePMoffatt/status/192187...%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Waterloo has a decent downtown, it's small though, and Kitchener has good bones, it feels a lot like Hamilton to me, except it's much quieter than Steeltown. It does have a nice stock of old buildings and warehouse structures.

Ironically it's called uptown Waterloo. A bit windswept in person and not particular popular for UW/WLU students, it's nicer to drive through than to linger.

[savevp]

Originally Posted by theman23

What's behind the change of fortunes in Niagara? Everything seems to be on an upward swing - population numbers, unemployment numbers, housing prices all seem to be heading in the same direction.

To my thinking, it's the outflow 'wave' from Toronto now having reached Niagara. Train service is incrementally improving, though not fast enough, but the partial-commuters, retirees, and young folks priced out of the GTA are pushing out in all directions, and the couple midsized Niagara cities make for relatively-affordable landing spots.

[NotToScale]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Chart of the day posted by Ivey's Mike Moffatt:



https://x.com/MikePMoffatt/status/192187...%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

LOL FFS ... one of many sad charts summarizing the past 10years.