The Bay Parkade Redevelopment | 315, 271, 239m | 80, 69, 68fl | Proposed

[griswold]

Seems like building the hotel should be the priority before the condos.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

And speaking of Rennie, -...i.e., people who actually know what's what in the real estate market and where the trendlines are headed - they just had big layoffs related to the current state of the market and the recession they see as coming.

It doesn't seem like we're heading to the type of market or market recovery that would support this kind of project.

The Rennie layoffs are said to be related to how projects are marketed, and how many people will be needed to sell properties, particularly as AI is introduced into the preparation of marketing materials. It's not necessarily related to how many condo units (new, for sale, or for resale) can be expected to sell in the immediate future.

That noted, right now, nobody knows what's going to happen to the economy, home building, or home sales in even the short term, and I'd question whether we've had a Downtown market for several years that would successfully sell enough of 1,500 condos in one project to be able to proceed.

We've seen a couple of West End condo towers proceed in the past 5 years, and The Block and Burrard Place 2 in Downtown, but we've seen many more paused, or cancelled. And several developers have switched to rental, which doesn't suggest much strength in the strata market.

And although there have been a number of new hotel projects proposed in the past few years, some of those seem to have stalled too, although the Seymour Paul Y project is just starting construction, and the Listel is being demolished, so there's some progress.

[jollyburger]

duplicate

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by logan5

The condos towers I don't see a problem with. Towers like that are already being built in Burnaby, but a 1000' hotel? It would seem that is something that gets scaled back, or Holborn attempts to change it to a hotel/condo tower, like 1151 Georgia, which Holborn built.

But isn't this essentially a hotel/condo tower but instead of a single building it's split up into the three towers. I mean good luck to the COV lawyers

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Poh-tay-toe, poh-tah-toe - with the current market, Holborn needs to either pivot to rentals or end up with a thousand-foot tall bird sanctuary.

The market today is not the market in ~5+ years when this project completes.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

The market today is not the market in ~5+ years when this project completes.

To complete it, they would have to sell over 1,000 expensive condos around 4 years before its completion date. The banks won't loan them over $1bn until they achieve that level of sales, and I don't believe Holborn, or their parent company in Malaysia, can possibly fund the project from their own resources. It today's market you're probably looking at ~5++++ years to completion.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

To complete it, they would have to sell over 1,000 expensive condos around 4 years before its completion date. The banks won't loan them over $1bn until they achieve that level of sales, and I don't believe Holborn, or their parent company in Malaysia, can possibly fund the project from their own resources. It today's market you're probably looking at ~5++++ years to completion.

Not to mention that block for expensive condos is a bit dicey.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Not to mention that block for expensive condos is a bit dicey.

There was a time when the same thing could be said about Yaletown, Coal Harbour, Marine Gateway and River District.

[csbvan]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Not to mention that block for expensive condos is a bit dicey.

We have whatever is happening with the old Bay (possibly Ms. Liu's flagship for a new department store concept), The Post, the new VAG, Telus Garden, Deloitte Summit, and the new hotel at Richards and Pender finished or proposed. Seems like, by the time this project opens, it would fit into the changes happening in the area.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by csbvan

We have whatever is happening with the old Bay (possibly Ms. Liu's flagship for a new department store concept), The Post, the new VAG, Telus Garden, Deloitte Summit, and the new hotel at Richards and Pender finished or proposed. Seems like, by the time this project opens, it would fit into the changes happening in the area.

And the numerous junkies littering that block?

If anything actually ever gets built by Holborn there, expensive condos are the last thing suitable for that location.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

And the numerous junkies littering that block?

If anything actually ever gets built by Holborn there, expensive condos are the last thing suitable for that location.

I've walked down that block of Richards, opposite the Catholic cathedral and hall, dozens, if not hundreds of times, and don't recall ever seeing any junkies. There are sometimes people hanging out on the Seymour side, but that's not where the condos are proposed to be built.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Most of the homeless are near Victory Square or Abbott. You don't see many on Robson or Georgia.

People who "accurately" describe every part of downtown despite bragging that they never go downtown anymore are... interesting, to say the least.

[csbvan]

I am downtown 5 times a week, in multiple locations including right near there. I find it interesting when people confidently claim things and yet it is clear that they are unaware of current reality.

Also, I would suggest that if there was an epidemic of loitering or drug use near that site it would have more to do with the dead-zone nature of a giant, ugly, underutilized parkade and other defunct buildings than it would with the neighbourhood more generally. That, I would expect, is something easily remedied by....redeveloping the defunct block.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by csbvan

I am downtown 5 times a week, in multiple locations including right near there. I find it interesting when people confidently claim things and yet it is clear that they are unaware of current reality.

Also, I would suggest that if there was an epidemic of loitering or drug use near that site it would have more to do with the dead-zone nature of a giant, ugly, underutilized parkade and other defunct buildings than it would with the neighbourhood more generally. That, I would expect, is something easily remedied by....redeveloping the defunct block.

Well I did spend many years attending Mass at Holy Rosary but maybe you know best.

You’re right in one thing, the parkade was dying already and without the Bay it’s completely useless. But can you honestly say that’s a good site for luxury condos? Heck, if we’re talking fantasy projects (which this is) then why not have Holborn trade this parcel for 601 Pacific and the adjacent lot? Far more suited to luxury condos.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by whatnext

And the numerous junkies littering that block?

If anything actually ever gets built by Holborn there, expensive condos are the last thing suitable for that location.

Only reason why the junkies are there is because the area is very rundown old.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Vin

Only reason why the junkies are there is because the area is very rundown old.

New buildings will definitely help but it isn't the right space for luxury, particularly with the market as it is now. A hotel, sure, rentals yes, even office but not luxury condos.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

New buildings will definitely help but it isn't the right space for luxury, particularly with the market as it is now. A hotel, sure, rentals yes, even office but not luxury condos.

What? Downtown with some of the highest land values per sf is not "the right space for luxury"?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

What? Downtown with some of the highest land values per sf is not "the right space for luxury"?

LOL, a tired block across from a soon to be derelict department store? The closest building that could probably be termed luxury is The Jameson but that is actually adjacent to some luxury retail and closer to the waterfront. The Holborn Fantasy Tower shares the block with a car rental, a Circle K....

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by whatnext

LOL, a tired block across from a soon to be derelict department store? The closest building that could probably be termed luxury is The Jameson but that is actually adjacent to some luxury retail and closer to the waterfront. The Holborn Fantasy Tower shares the block with a car rental, a Circle K....

You complain about crappy old buildings but that seems to be what you want everywhere.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

You complain about crappy old buildings but that seems to be what you want everywhere.

How elitist. You're calling purpose-built rental crappy?

Originally Posted by whatnext

New buildings will definitely help but it isn't the right space for luxury, particularly with the market as it is now. A hotel, sure, rentals yes, even office but not luxury condos.