YVR & Sea Island Developments Discussion II

[Johnny Aussie]

I suppose an announcement by T’way or whatever they will be called is imminent

And then we wait for Starlux!

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

In my recent travels in other countries, pre-security options were pretty sparse in comparison to what was available after you go through security.

Yeah, the only places I know that kind of buck that trend are some Japanese airports like HND and KIX and destination airports like SIN. In Japan's case, security and boarding is so fast and efficient in many cases, that having restaurants landside aren't a huge inconvenience. Once you go through security you're on the plane within 20–30 minutes anyhow.

IN the case of SIN, Jewel is a destination mall (in some ways akin to the outlets in YVR but with more recreation opportunities).

Actually, I'd love to see MacArthur Glen Outlets have some kind of a recreational component as well, but I don't know how feasible that actually is. Perhaps that field north of Grauer road could be used for Parking and then reuse part of the parking at the OutLets for buildings?

[nname]

No word on new TW flight to ICN yet, but KE recently extended the second flight into winter season. 4x weekly 789 instead of 78X last winter.

AC reduce YVR-LAX from 5x to 4x daily starting July
https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/250508-ac3q25us

The flight moved to YVR-YWG, which increase from 4x to 5x daily starting July.

[jollyburger]

Korean carrier T'way Air's May/June 2025 "Change Begins" inflight magazine features Vancouver on its Vancouver. The airline states it plans to launch 4 weekly flights from mid-July 2025

https://www.threads.com/@aeroroutes/post...ange-begins-inflight-magazine-features-v

[Zmonkey]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

https://www.threads.com/@aeroroutes/post...ange-begins-inflight-magazine-features-v

Do they have a codeshare or inter airline with any Canadian carriers?

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

https://www.threads.com/@aeroroutes/post...ange-begins-inflight-magazine-features-v

That’s almost as good as a formal announcement.
I don’t think I’ve ever seen that before - announcing a new route in an inflight magazine - and on the cover to boot

Very little lead in time if starting in July. Chinese airlines tend to do very short notices between announcing and launching.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Very little lead in time if starting in July. Chinese airlines tend to do very short notices between announcing and launching.

2 months lead time is typical for LCC like TW. The airline usually open reservation for only 2 months before a new season for long-hual flights.


Some observation on YVR-DEL flights. Seems like AI now figure out a way to run the flight both directions non-stop after closure of Pakistani airspace.

For YVR-DEL using the Atlantic route (without Russian airspace), the nonstop flights clocked just over 17 hours
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ai186#3a3804b8

But recently it had find a quicker trough through Pacific and Russia, with flight time just over 16 hours
https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/ai186#3a430453

DEL-YVR is never an issue with Pacific route, which takes about 14.5 hours.

This shows that YVR-DEL nonstop is doable for AC with 77L, if they willing to do it. In fact, the roundtrip YVR-DEL-YVR is now shorter than YYZ-DEL-YYZ due to shorter Pacific route on the return leg. The longer YVR-DEL leg is about the same as DEL-YYZ, and about 30min longer than DEL-YUL. The shorter DEL-YVR leg is one hour faster than both YYZ and YUL-DEL.

[Johnny Aussie]

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/250512-twns25yvr

Korean carrier T’way Air today (12MAY25) filed operational schedule and air fares to its planned North America debut. From 12JUL25, the airline plans to operate 4 weekly Seoul Incheon – Vancouver service, subject to government approval. Airbus A330-300 aircraft to serve this route.

TW531 ICN2105 – 1525YVR 333 x135
TW532 YVR1725 – 2135+1ICN 333 x135

T’way will be YVR’s 25th longhaul foreign carrier. That’s quite the milestone!

[nname]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/250512-twns25yvr

Korean carrier T’way Air today (12MAY25) filed operational schedule and air fares to its planned North America debut. From 12JUL25, the airline plans to operate 4 weekly Seoul Incheon – Vancouver service, subject to government approval. Airbus A330-300 aircraft to serve this route.

TW531 ICN2105 – 1525YVR 333 x135
TW532 YVR1725 – 2135+1ICN 333 x135

T’way will be YVR’s 25th longhaul foreign carrier. That’s quite the milestone!

Looks like reservation will open 10am tomorrow Korean time.

Interesting that the 4 operating days are exactly the same as the ones where KE have the second daily flights. So YVR-ICN will either be 2 or 4 flights a day.

Although TW have extensive Asian network, the flights time doesn't seems to be optimized for connection unlike the European flights that departs/arrives in the morning. This may be temporary though as the YVR flights is currently rotate with SYD, which is having seasonal reduction to 3x weekly during summer.

[owenf]

Originally Posted by nname

Although TW have extensive Asian network, the flights time doesn't seems to be optimized for connection unlike the European flights that departs/arrives in the morning. This may be temporary though as the YVR flights is currently rotate with SYD, which is having seasonal reduction to 3x weekly during summer.

Maybe means that T'way is targeting more O/D traffic then. It's nice to have a late afternoon Asia-bound departure; most are in the morning/early afternoon or past 11pm.

[xd_1771]

Vancouver will have two duelling Korean LCCs, as PARATA AIR (a new start-up being built off of the bones of fly gangwon) announces Vancouver will be one of its first overseas destinations alongside Los Angeles. Slated for launch with similar A330-200 aircraft in 2026.

(Note that my source on this one is actually a Japanese language website)
https://sky-budget.com/2025/05/05/parata-air-may-launch-japan-oct2025/

[nname]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Vancouver will have two duelling Korean LCCs, as PARATA AIR (a new start-up being built off of the bones of fly gangwon) announces Vancouver will be one of its first overseas destinations alongside Los Angeles. Slated for launch with similar A330-200 aircraft in 2026.

(Note that my source on this one is actually a Japanese language website)
https://sky-budget.com/2025/05/05/parata-air-may-launch-japan-oct2025/

It will be 3 if YP still have YVR on its radar. Vancouver was one of the first destination planned back when the airline started in 2020.

For the past couple of years, TW and YP was under the same ownership so it doesn't make sense for both to fly to YVR. Now they separated, wonder if YP is looking at YVR again, especially when TW expands into YP market like LAX and SFO after a few years...

============

Looks like ATH wants a route to Western Canada, and specifically named Vancouver:

In North America, ATH is eyeing routes to Florida and Western Canada. “Florida demonstrates strong indirect traffic volumes to Athens, and with services already operating to four U.S. East Coast destinations, it is only natural to immediately establish the direct connection with Miami,” Papadopoulou said. “Miami’s significance as a business and tourism hub, combined with the growing demand from travelers in Florida, makes it an indispensable addition to our network.”

She added, “Canada’s Vancouver and/or Halifax are dynamic, potential destinations, beyond Toronto and Montreal, that are already operated.”

https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/a...lhi-mumbai-high-athens-airports-wishlist

[VancityAvgeek33]

Originally Posted by nname

It will be 3 if YP still have YVR on its radar. Vancouver was one of the first destination planned back when the airline started in 2020.

For the past couple of years, TW and YP was under the same ownership so it doesn't make sense for both to fly to YVR. Now they separated, wonder if YP is looking at YVR again, especially when TW expands into YP market like LAX and SFO after a few years...

============

Looks like ATH wants a route to Western Canada, and specifically named Vancouver:



https://aviationweek.com/air-transport/a...lhi-mumbai-high-athens-airports-wishlist

This is so exciting!!! Seoul will have lots of competition on Vancouver route! Re Athens would be great, but I doubt AC will launch that. If anything Westjet will prolly launch from yyc which sucks. Air Canada could launch Athens from yvr I just feel like it’s probably unlikely even tho I’d love to see it! Maybe since USA travel is down AC might be more interested in connecting YVR with more of Europe!

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by VancityAvgeek33

This is so exciting!!! Seoul will have lots of competition on Vancouver route! Re Athens would be great, but I doubt AC will launch that. If anything Westjet will prolly launch from yyc which sucks. Air Canada could launch Athens from yvr I just feel like it’s probably unlikely even tho I’d love to see it! Maybe since USA travel is down AC might be more interested in connecting YVR with more of Europe!

VYR><ATH... Wow!! Does anybody know if it has to be AC, or if another airline (Olympic Airlines comes to mind first off) would do it. Any thoughts / feedback on that?

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by VancityAvgeek33

This is so exciting!!! Seoul will have lots of competition on Vancouver route! Re Athens would be great, but I doubt AC will launch that. If anything Westjet will prolly launch from yyc which sucks. Air Canada could launch Athens from yvr I just feel like it’s probably unlikely even tho I’d love to see it! Maybe since USA travel is down AC might be more interested in connecting YVR with more of Europe!

Westjet is constrained by their limited amount of widebody jets. They're 100% utilized on their current oceanic routes so they're likely very much out of contention for a route like ATH.

Furthermore, with the recent WJ ownership tie-up with KLM and Korean Air, ATH doesn't make sense from a connectivity standpoint either.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by VancityAvgeek33

This is so exciting!!!

Originally Posted by trofirhen

VYR><ATH... Wow!!

Don't hold your breath.

It's an airport wishlist, not an airline wishlist. Big difference. And even the latter doesn't mean it will happen soon. (TP>YVR)

It's not as if AC read that article and discovered there might be demand from YVR to ATH. They know very well what the demand is.

The last 2 years, AC has been content on dumping more capacity and frequency on YUL/YYZ-ATH, rather than start YVR-ATH. Since canceling TLV, the opportunity has been there, and AC chose otherwise. That's more telling than an airport wishlist.

Besides, plenty of other markets with higher yields out there for the taking, like EDI, LIS, BCN or FCO.

YVR-ATH is a long leisure route, longer than all of those other destinations listed above. That eats into yields. It's also why there are no US carriers that fly from the west coast to Athens. Norse Atlantic will launch ATH-LAX next month. Blocks 13h30 hours. Let's see how they do. Their track record isn't all that impressive. A lot of canceled routes/destinations in North America.

Originally Posted by trofirhen

:or if another airline (Olympic Airlines comes to mind first off) would do it. Any thoughts / feedback on that?

That would be an interesting route, to say the least, as Olympic Air only operates a fleet of Dash 8s and ATR42/72s.

They are now a subsidiary of Aegean Airlines, and even their parent company only has a fleet of narrowbodies, so YVR-ATH is out of reach.

If - and it's a big IF - YVR-ATH happens, it will be a Canadian carrier. Either AC or TS. As was said above, WS doesn't have any spare 787s, and even if they did, they wouldn't waste one on YVR-ATH.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Don't hold your breath.

It's an airport wish list, not an airline wish list. Big difference. And even the latter doesn't mean it will happen soon. (TP>YVR)

It's not as if AC read that article and discovered there might be demand from YVR to ATH. They know very well what the demand is.

Agreed, but the only thing this may indicate is an Airport's willingness to work with AC on making the route work.

If it is close to penciling and ATH is willing to pull some levers, it may push it over the finish line (not sure what their policy or history is on this type of route development).

Either way I think FCO on ITA is much more likely and desirable for that matter than ATH.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

............

Either way I think FCO on ITA is much more likely and desirable for that matter than ATH.

Yes, I think you are right. Vancouver has a sizeable Italian population to validate a YVR><FCO route, rather the way the large Scandinavian population in Seattle got SAS way back in the 1960s

[Johnny Aussie]

Meanwhile HK Airlines going to continue daily through the winter

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/250516-hxnw25yvr

Hong Kong Airlines as of Friday (16MAY25) filed operational schedule for Hong Kong – Vancouver route during Northern winter 2025/26 season, on/after 26OCT25. The airline will continue to serve this route on daily basis, however Vancouver departure time will be unified to overnight hours, instead of 2 weekly overnight, 5 weekly morning departures.

Schedule below focuses on the month of December 2025.

HX080 HKG2300 – 1915YVR 333 D
HX081 YVR0020 – 0635+1HKG 333 D

Probably won’t be too long until a Starlux announcement either

Conceivably YVR could be at 27 foreign longhaul carriers by the end of the year

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Conceivably YVR could be at 27 foreign longhaul carriers by the end of the year

Would I be correct in assuming that most of these foreign longhaul carriers would be Chinese and other East Asian airlines?