Statistics Canada Reports II

[theman23]

I wonder how much of this impression is driven by alcohol prices. I don't drink, and I didn't think Australia was any more expensive than Canada. In many ways it was cheaper. I was there for 2 months in 2023 and another 3 months last year and my impression was:
- groceries seemed about the same but cheaper after currency exchange
- eating out at sit down restaurants again the same ,but cheaper after currency exchange (as mentioned, tax + tip are included in the price).
- fast food was more expensive, except Asian stuff - that was cheaper.
- gas prices were more expensive, unless you compare to B.C. in which case they were the same after conversion.
- short term stay in a furnished unit was cheaper than what I would pay in Canada in a major city, and hotels were cheaper as well.
- coffee was the same after conversion. A $5 long black is about $4.50 CAD, which is actually cheaper than what an Americano costs at most coffee places now after tax and tip. It's only expensive if your baseline is Timmies, but even then you can get the same if you go into one of the 1000s of Coles/Woolworths.

[niwell]

Accommodation is actually the main thing I was pleasantly surprised with price-wise. We only stayed in hotels in Sydney (2 nights) and Cairns (3 nights) and both were very cheap! Our airbnb in Brunswick, Melbourne was also quite affordable. Definitely less than any major city in North America. But then again hotels here are absurdly expensive now.

Coffee at a good third-wave coffee shop in Melbourne or Sydney from my experience was probably about 25% more than an equivalent one local to me in Toronto, accounting for exchange. Melbourne coffee is fantastic though.

Similar to Canada I imagine there are variations by State. My uncle for instance spends a fair bit of time in North America due to his career (professor) including a month in Toronto last Fall and generally found it a bit cheaper than Sydney for going out / getting food to make in. Followed by 3 weeks in Massachusetts where everything is more expensive for that now, particularly accounting for exchange rate.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by theman23

I wonder how much of this impression is driven by alcohol prices. I don't drink, and I didn't think Australia was any more expensive than Canada. In many ways it was cheaper. I was there for 2 months in 2023 and another 3 months last year and my impression was:
- groceries seemed about the same but cheaper after currency exchange
- eating out at sit down restaurants again the same ,but cheaper after currency exchange (as mentioned, tax + tip are included in the price).
- fast food was more expensive, except Asian stuff - that was cheaper.
- gas prices were more expensive, unless you compare to B.C. in which case they were the same after conversion.
- short term stay in a furnished unit was cheaper than what I would pay in Canada in a major city, and hotels were cheaper as well.
- coffee was the same after conversion. A $5 long black is about $4.50 CAD, which is actually cheaper than what an Americano costs at most coffee places now after tax and tip. It's only expensive if your baseline is Timmies, but even then you can get the same if you go into one of the 1000s of Coles/Woolworths.

If you compare Sydney to Toronto on Numbeo, your impressions as a visitor would probably be supported. But if you lived in Sydney, you'd probably find your cost of living was slightly higher. The data there supports the idea that renting an apartment costs more, and it also shows that clothing is more expensive, but if you live there wages are higher, so it's only a problem if you're not making that wage.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Changing City

If you compare Sydney to Toronto on Numbeo, your impressions as a visitor would probably be supported. But if you lived in Sydney, you'd probably find your cost of living was slightly higher. The data there supports the idea that renting an apartment costs more, and it also shows that clothing is more expensive, but if you live there wages are higher, so it's only a problem if you're not making that wage.

Basically the same, some things cheaper some more expensive. Obviously a lot of this is dependent on individual circumstances. If your only indulgence is a $1 small drip coffee at Tim Hortons, you may be spending more money in Australia having to buy a $5 long black at the only coffee place you can find. If you tend to go for espresso drinks you probably won't notice a difference and may even find it somewhat cheaper (again: Woolworths/Coles). If you're a big drinker or smoker, Australia seems to be more expensive. Illicit drugs are also much more expensive there, if that's your thing (second hand knowledge, of course). For my own spending habits, I found it cheaper.

[niwell]

^That seems pretty accurate. Myself and family enjoy drinking which is probably the biggest factor. Wife and in-laws smoke and that’s much more of a steep difference - a pack of premium 20s is $45-$50 in Aus and around $20 here. But my friend in Melbourne says most smokers he knows get illegal cigarettes sold at almost any tobacco store which are more or less on par.

Anyways I wasn’t trying to be negative on Australia as moving there in the mid-term is a distinct possibility. The issues there are very familiar to here, amongst other things. All in all both Sydney and Toronto aren’t horribly expensive cities for going out on a global scale - there’s a lot cheaper but a lot worse. Rent / home purchase prices are what make them expensive and totally incommensurate with most professional wages.

[MolsonExport]

I love Australia, and I seriously considered moving there at the start of my academic career (there were some tasty positions that beckoned back then), but it just is too far away from family members. I am not that close with my side of the family (those that are still alive, that is), but my wife is very close to her side of the family, and that would mean at least one to two trips back to Canada every year. Too expensive!!

[drew]

^ Australia is great. I spend half a year there many moons ago. But yes it is too far away if you hope to maintain relationships on this side of the int'l date line.

I also found the weather (in Queensland) too bland for my 4-season prairie upbringing.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I love Australia, and I seriously considered moving there at the start of my academic career (there were some tasty positions that beckoned back then), but it just is too far away from family members. I am not that close with my side of the family (those that are still alive, that is), but my wife is very close to her side of the family, and that would mean at least one to two trips back to Canada every year. Too expensive!!

My uncle actually has what I’m guessing is a pretty similar career track to yours at the university of New South Wales - he moved from Toronto after getting his phd at U of T. He was very excited as we were basically the first to visit out of our family and his friends. His wife is Australian so they have that but has said it can feel very isolating coming from North America. Luckily work brings him over relatively frequently, but his teen daughters haven’t met most of the family. Post Covid is especially difficult with the rise in prices!

My FIL in Ottawa is from the Gold Coast where his brother still lives (sister in Brisbane) and now manages to get out yearly in retirement. He’s a GP and has to do locums in northern Ontario to cover the costs! Again, that side of my wife’s family was ecstatic we took the time to visit them. They are mostly working class whose wealth is entirely in property purchased before prices went insane and don’t really have the means to travel over often.

It’s beautiful but I don’t think I could live in Queensland! Too hot and Brisbane is kinda sleepy despite the size. Gold Coast is hectic but a perfect place to have relatives a block from the beach, even though their house is increasingly surrounded by gigantic vacation homes! Melbourne would be perfect for someone like myself who doesn’t care for winter but still likes seasons and loves walkable cities, craft beer, good food, coffee, and cycles a ton! If someone gave me multi-millions I wouldn’t turn my nose up at Sydney either…

[Dalreg]

I moved from the prairies to Perth almost 19years ago now. I do get back to Canada occasionally but I have settled and chosen Australia as my home. Price wise is what it is. My wage doubled the day I moved from Canada to Australia, but my housing price tripled.
Cars are cheaper! For the most part daily expenses are Cheaper in Perth than Saskatchewan.

A $50/month mobile plan gets me everything I need at speeds that are great.

Don't get me started on coffee! So much better down here and priced accordingly. A$2, 7-11 cup is exactly that, $2. Might as well drink toilet water. The great coffee shops down here know how to make a great cup so paying $5-$15 per cup is worth it when you realise what you are getting. Value for your money!

Comparing apples to grapes between the countries. No different than comparing Ontario to BC, to NFLD. All the same but totally different.

[ssiguy]

How did a StatsCan thread turn into a debate about alcohol prices in Australia?

Let's get back on topic guys. Thanks.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

I moved from the prairies to Perth almost 19years ago now. I do get back to Canada occasionally but I have settled and chosen Australia as my home. Price wise is what it is. My wage doubled the day I moved from Canada to Australia, but my housing price tripled.
Cars are cheaper! For the most part daily expenses are Cheaper in Perth than Saskatchewan.

A $50/month mobile plan gets me everything I need at speeds that are great.

Don't get me started on coffee! So much better down here and priced accordingly. A$2, 7-11 cup is exactly that, $2. Might as well drink toilet water. The great coffee shops down here know how to make a great cup so paying $5-$15 per cup is worth it when you realise what you are getting. Value for your money!

Comparing apples to grapes between the countries. No different than comparing Ontario to BC, to NFLD. All the same but totally different.

Honestly, cell phone plan prices have come down quite a bit in Canada over the last two years. Australia is still cheaper, but the gap has narrowed.

Perth is a gorgeous city. I only spent a few days there before flying out, but it kind of gave me vibes of Calgary on the coast (that's a compliment).

[MolsonExport]

I agree. I spent a week in Perth, and I told people that it was Calgary-by-the-Sea. Great place. Apparently it is one of the most isolated big cities in the world. The nearest city with over 100,000 inhabitants (that is, not part of the Perth Metro), Adelaide, is approximately 2,100 kilometers (1,305 miles) away

[niwell]

I paid $20 for my 40gb 1 month eSIM in Aus on Telstra. Now that is unthinkable in Canada! Though yeah, things aren’t as bad as they used to be. Somehow South African plans are worse than ours despite the income disparity.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Don't get me started on coffee! So much better down here and priced accordingly. A$2, 7-11 cup is exactly that, $2. Might as well drink toilet water. The great coffee shops down here know how to make a great cup so paying $5-$15 per cup is worth it when you realise what you are getting. Value for your money!

Except it's not. This Australian woman told me how much better their coffee was than Canada and that I was in for a treat. I was intrigued and skeptical but interested to try. It was one of those face palm moments when she brought it out. It's EXACTLY the same as in Canada. She thought we didn't have proper cafes and doughnut shop/convenience store coffee was all Canadians drank.

Doughnut shop/conveneince store coffee and the stuff you get at a proper cafe are 2 totally different products. If you go to Tim Hortons, McDonalds, or Caltex they're going to give you filtered coffee for $2 and it tastes the same in Canada and Australia. If you go to a proper cafe, the coffee is exactly the same in both countries but costs 2-5 times more. I can't speak for Saskatchewan though.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Except it's not. This Australian woman told me how much better their coffee was than Canada and that I was in for a treat. I was intrigued and skeptical but interested to try. It was one of those face palm moments when she brought it out. It's EXACTLY the same as in Canada. She thought we didn't have proper cafes and doughnut shop/convenience store coffee was all Canadians drank.

Doughnut shop/conveneince store coffee and the stuff you get at a proper cafe are 2 totally different products. If you go to Tim Hortons, McDonalds, or Caltex they're going to give you filtered coffee for $2 and it tastes the same in Canada and Australia. If you go to a proper cafe, the coffee is exactly the same in both countries but costs 2-5 times more. I can't speak for Saskatchewan though.

Australians have an odd obsession with their coffee. It's become part of their national identity, it seems.

[ssiguy]

Now we have moved from StatsCan discussing Australian alcohol to Australian coffee........I guess that some form of improvement?? Come on guys, this is not an Aussie beverage thread!

As for actual Canadian stats........it looks like Alberta is going to pass 5 million any day now. It's interesting to see the population clock and how much slower Canada's pop growth is compared to last year.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Except it's not. This Australian woman told me how much better their coffee was than Canada and that I was in for a treat. I was intrigued and skeptical but interested to try. It was one of those face palm moments when she brought it out. It's EXACTLY the same as in Canada. She thought we didn't have proper cafes and doughnut shop/convenience store coffee was all Canadians drank.

Doughnut shop/conveneince store coffee and the stuff you get at a proper cafe are 2 totally different products. If you go to Tim Hortons, McDonalds, or Caltex they're going to give you filtered coffee for $2 and it tastes the same in Canada and Australia. If you go to a proper cafe, the coffee is exactly the same in both countries but costs 2-5 times more. I can't speak for Saskatchewan though.

The first part is true, good coffee is ubiquitous in just about every country these days and I think its mostly hype from tourist boards that locals have internalized.

Two to five times more expensive is totally made up though. A medium americano in Canada is basically $5 CAD minimum now. Where were you seeing the $25 long black? Most places charged $5 AUD.

[niwell]

From my experience it definitely isn’t *so* much better, but I’d say that the availability and quality of third wave coffee shops is on average a bit better, particularly in smaller or more suburban places. The consistency of getting good coffee seemed fantastic. But yeah, good coffee places near me in Toronto seem on par to good ones in Melbourne (also the supposed best croissant in the world at Lune didn’t seem any better than Cherry Bomb near me, which is to say both are great). Canada has a pretty fantastic coffee scene overall and my Aussie aunt who’s big into coffee was very impressed with the places she went in central Toronto.

One thing I found was that the milk quality is Aus is very good (and everywhere uses whole milk) so a flat white is worth it. My go-to here is just a Americano. Thankfully the amount of walking and hiking compensated for that!

[FrAnKs]

Canada’s population clock is broken.

Time to switch the batteries.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Cars are cheaper! For the most part daily expenses are Cheaper in Perth than Saskatchewan.

Curious which cars you're referring to. Was speaking to a relative in Sydney recently, and was shocked how expensive German cars are in Oz. Sounded like the price for a X3/X5 or GLC/GLE in Sydney was probably 20-30% higher than Ontario/Quebec, and used cars were priced just as high.

The pricing for the BYD cars in Australia sounded very attractive though.

Originally Posted by theman23

The first part is true, good coffee is ubiquitous in just about every country these days and I think its mostly hype from tourist boards that locals have internalized.

Yea it's a bit overhyped. IMO I found Italy and Buenos Aires' coffee scene to be more interesting and more affordable than Melb.