Statistics Canada Reports II

[someone123]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

It's perverse that Toronto is growing at this rate, given how over-burdened our infrastructure is.

On the flip side, Calgary has done pretty well even though it's growing very fast, although they should have expanded the LRT network more. Given the population growth numbers I always expect to experience mega traffic snarls there like Toronto or Vancouver but it doesn't materialize.

It doesn't look so good for the people who say that road building is financially unsustainable, ineffective due to "induced demand", and the only answer is bikes and transit. I prefer the urban areas but you can in fact build arterials and highways to support a rapidly growing population and in North America this is actually the more sustainable growth model in the sense of supporting new growth and allowing people to travel.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

We are already seeing a complete collapse of our population growth which we desperately need. This is already being exemplified in rising rental vacancy rates and falling real estate prices.

Yes, there's deals on apartments in Vancouver. You can get a 1 bedroom rental now for only $2,499! Twenty Four Ninety Nine

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by someone123

On the flip side, Calgary has done pretty well even though it's growing very fast, although they should have expanded the LRT network more. Given the population growth numbers I always expect to experience mega traffic snarls there like Toronto or Vancouver but it doesn't materialize.

It doesn't look so good for the people who say that road building is financially unsustainable, ineffective due to "induced demand", and the only answer is bikes and transit. I prefer the urban areas but you can in fact build arterials and highways to support a rapidly growing population and in North America this is actually the more sustainable growth model in the sense of supporting new growth and allowing people to travel.

The argument of "induced demand" as the be all and end all for any major road project has many flaws.

Is it true sometimes, yes. There definitely is a moment where roads become over built. Cities like Phoenix, Houston and Dallas are good examples of that. Vancouver and BC are not there, nowhere close.

But at other times well planned road expansion is simply allowing pent-up demand to finally move. (cough, Vancouver) The highway one expansion, the Golden Ears Bridge, and the SFPR are good examples of this.

And sometimes that "induced demand" is economic growth.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Yes, there's deals on apartments in Vancouver. You can get a 1 bedroom rental now for only $2,499! Twenty Four Ninety Nine

I never said prices were now cheap or even marginally affordable but prices are coming down and vacancies are rising as the TFW/students are being sent home. These 2 groups are MUCH more likely to be renters than buyers.

[Dalreg]

Compared to Australia, $2499 is cheap!

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Compared to Australia, $2499 is cheap!

That's $2,820 AUD, but yes I've heard both Sydney and Melbourne are expensive AF.
niwell just went there recently. He can fill us in

[jc_yyc_ca]

Originally Posted by someone123

On the flip side, Calgary has done pretty well even though it's growing very fast, although they should have expanded the LRT network more. Given the population growth numbers I always expect to experience mega traffic snarls there like Toronto or Vancouver but it doesn't materialize.

Agreed. For a long time Calgary was ahead of the curve when it came to roads and rail infrastructure. It allowed for rapid population growth without seeing the immediate effects.
They've fallen back the last few years, especially with the city and province wrangling over the Green Line which was originally planned to be opening around now

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Wigs

That's $2,820 AUD, but yes I've heard both Sydney and Melbourne are expensive AF.
niwell just went there recently. He can fill us in

Both are expensive but Sydney is on another level. I'm sure there are "deals" to be had in the far Western Suburbs but anywhere central seemed outrageous based on the real estate signs I looked at (always an interesting activity on a trip!). The Eastern Suburbs in particular seem awash in investment money with most of the original single storey "cottages" been replaced with mansions. My uncle showed me apartment buildings he used to live in that were essentially flophouses in the 90s where 1 bedrooms are now $1,500+... a week. You can find cheaper but still seems a lot worse than the rental market here right now.

Melbourne seems a bit more affordable and slightly below Toronto, but also dependent on the housing typology you're looking for. There's actually a massive glut of highrise condo units (sound familiar?) in the Southbank area that are relatively cheap. A flat in an old house in a cool suburb not so much, but still, a much more affordable city. If we relocated to Aus - which is something that isn't out of the realm of possibility since my wife has dual citizenship - that would be the place.

Brisbane is also shockingly expensive and it's very hard to find a SFH for under $1M now. Traffic also on par with Toronto - seemed slightly worse than Sydney and much worse than Melbourne. Apparently public transit usage is quite low and the city is very sprawly with difficult topography. 1bdrm flats in the West End suburb (a pretty cool, central one) were about $2,500k a month.

Going out in any of the Australian cities we visited is significantly more expensive than what I'm used to in Toronto - even accounting for the no sales tax / tipping (though most high end places expect a tip now). Interestingly though good wine is pretty much on par if not slightly cheaper than here but beer, spirits and food a lot more than what I'm used to. Groceries seemed to be about the same with some items cheaper and some more expensive. There were big food shortages in grocery stores when we were in Cairns but not sure what the reason was - signs promised it would be back to normal by April!

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by Wigs

That's $2,820 AUD, but yes I've heard both Sydney and Melbourne are expensive AF.
niwell just went there recently. He can fill us in

I've been in Perth for 18years now. Anything with in a few klicks of downtown is insane. I live 25km from the cbd and rents are $700/week plus for a 3 bedroom house.

In the cbd, $700/week gets you a one bed one bath if you can find one.

Niwell, no offense but sounds like you did the typical Australia visit of the East coast. Did you make it out anywhere else?

[niwell]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Niwell, no offense but sounds like you did the typical Australia visit of the East coast. Did you make it out anywhere else?

We did not unfortunately - I have family in Sydney and my wife does in Brisbane (where she partially grew up) and the Gold Coast. Plus a friend in Melbourne. Taking that into account a month wasn’t really enough to experience any of the Western or interior parts of the country. But it also meant we weren’t exclusively doing tourist stuff. A liveaboard diving trip off Cairns was the furthest out we made it. Next time I’m there we’ll make it to Adelaide and Perth!

Also spent 4 days in Hong Kong including hangouts with forumer Kilgore Trout who showed us / recommended some rad spots.

[Cowtown_Tim]

Originally Posted by niwell

Both are expensive but Sydney is on another level. I'm sure there are "deals" to be had in the far Western Suburbs but anywhere central seemed outrageous based on the real estate signs I looked at (always an interesting activity on a trip!). The Eastern Suburbs in particular seem awash in investment money with most of the original single storey "cottages" been replaced with mansions. My uncle showed me apartment buildings he used to live in that were essentially flophouses in the 90s where 1 bedrooms are now $1,500+... a week. You can find cheaper but still seems a lot worse than the rental market here right now.

Melbourne seems a bit more affordable and slightly below Toronto, but also dependent on the housing typology you're looking for. There's actually a massive glut of highrise condo units (sound familiar?) in the Southbank area that are relatively cheap.

Originally Posted by Wigs

That's $2,820 AUD, but yes I've heard both Sydney and Melbourne are expensive AF.
niwell just went there recently. He can fill us in

Both are very expensive, especially Sydney. Melbourne I found to be more reasonable. I don't know if it's still reasonable.

Our company rented a 2 bdrm apartment in Melbourne and a 2 bedrm apt in Sydney in 2019. They were rented to us to use as longer stay hotels for employees, so the prices were probably higher than typical, but the two bedroom Sydney place near Chatswood Station was $1,200 AUD per week. The two bedroom Melbourne apt which was on St Kilda within walking distance of downtown was $3,000 AUD per month.

Condos in Melbourne at the time were not too much more than Calgary prices. My coworker bought a condo in Docklands for ~500K. IIRC it was equivalent to 600 sq ft.

Overall, Australia was expensive. Not just housing, but food, groceries etc.. Liquor was through the roof.

[mapleleaf66]

Anyone know what happened to the Population Clock? It seems to have stopped working for now.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by mapleleaf66

Anyone know what happened to the Population Clock? It seems to have stopped working for now.

as of 9am EST, it works for me.

https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/71-607-x/71-607-x2018005-eng.htm

[MolsonExport]

The last time I was in Australia (2013, Melbourne and surrounding Victoria State), I was completely blown away by the price of beer. Back then, a six-pack was at least double the price it was in Canada...and this was at the local big grocery retailer (Coles).

Things didn't seem quite as bad when I previously visited Australia (2003, Sydney, Perth, Uluru, and Cairns/Northern Queensland).

[Dalreg]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

The last time I was in Australia (2013, Melbourne and surrounding Victoria State), I was completely blown away by the price of beer. Back then, a six-pack was at least double the price it was in Canada...and this was at the local big grocery retailer (Coles).

Things didn't seem quite as bad when I previously visited Australia (2003, Sydney, Perth, Uluru, and Cairns/Northern Queensland).

What do you consider expensive? $60 for a carton (24 bottles) is about average these days.

Bottle of Crown Royal, $60 for a 700ml.

Wine, $2 to $2000 for a bottle

[niwell]

Craft beer is pretty expensive in Australia, which is one of the big things my uncle and aunt comment on when visiting Toronto. Macro beer didn’t seem too much more at the bottle shop (not so much at bars…). Though Ontario is actually not too bad on that front if you aren’t buying at specialized retailers. One thing I found interesting was that the 500ml cans of Eastern European lager that are dirt cheap at the LCBO ($2.50ish) were 2x to 3x the price in both Queensland and NSW. Those were my go-to when I was broke!

750ml of Crown Royal is $34 at the LCBO for context. Wine is harder to compare but as I noted above seemed to be the best deal for alcohol where I was at least in Aus.

[Dalreg]

Craft beer in the west (WA) is not expensive at all. I have a microbrewery literally 5 minutes from place and a pint is $11. That same pint in the nightclub district would be $17.

I guess when you factor wages into things, alcohol for me is cheap...

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

Craft beer in the west (WA) is not expensive at all. I have a microbrewery literally 5 minutes from place and a pint is $11. That same pint in the nightclub district would be $17.

I guess when you factor wages into things, alcohol for me is cheap...

I have a couple of microbreweries within 5 minutes of where I live in Vancouver (and over 20 within 20 minutes - one of the advantages of living in Yeast Van).

A pint in the closest is $7.95 + 10% tax, so $8.75. Your $11 Australian is around $9.75 Canadian, so it looks like we're a bit cheaper.

[WarrenC12]

I brew beer at home and Australia has a great home brewing community. Makes sense if craft beer is so much at the store or pub.

[Harrison]

I was just in Aus for 5 weeks this year from late Jan to early March and visited all over regionally - Tasmania, South Aus, Victoria and NSW plus the capital cities Adelaide, Melbourne, Sydney and Hobart. Costs were higher for gas and diesel but I found grocery prices at Woolies and Coles to be actually less than at home in Edmonton, save for the odd item. Eating out was a bit more expensive, but again due to the tip and tax being included in the price (which I appreciated).

Coffee was definitely more expensive - a $5 long black was cheap! One thing I found odd was the prevalence of instant coffee at grocery stores versus beans, which maybe due to the price of coffee being so high generally?

I can't speak to housing costs as we just stayed in caravan parks, Airbnbs and hotels/motels, but even those didn't seem outrageous - maybe even cheaper than in Canada for certain places we stayed. We stayed in a two-bedroom condo in Swanston Central in Melbourne for less than $300 CAD / night which was an amazing deal.