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  #1  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2025, 8:26 PM
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TORONTO: Tunnel Under 401 Freeway

This was announced by the provincial government last September, was made part of the Tories' re-election campaign in February, and yesterday the government announced the advent of feasibility studies. So these guys are serious. The 401 is the busiest freeway on Earth, and is heavily congested every day, sometimes all day, but always during rush hours. This would be the longest tunnel in the world, and presumably the most expensive transportation project ever undertaken.
Is the tunnel technically feasible? Sure. Is it realistic? No. I don't think there's the slightest chance of this happening. It would cost up to $130 billion and take decades to build. It would be a colossal waste of money (that is well-needed elsewhere) and time.
Also, the government wants this to run from Mississauga in the west to Scarborough in the east, which is 55km. I assume the plan is to have the eastern ingress/egress be on the eastern edge of Scarborough, near Port Union Rd. The problem is that the 401 is almost always badly congested where it narrows 10-15 kms east of there in Ajax-Whitby, in the area between Salem Rd. and Brock St., so a tunnel that did not include that zone would not solve anything. This must come out east of Oshawa to be of any use, imo.



https://globalnews.ca/news/11120451/...study-2-years/
Quote:
Doug Ford’s Highway 401 tunnel feasibility study could take 2 years: internal documents
A feasibility study to build an express tunnel under Highway 401 could take up to two years, Global News has learned, as the Ford government prepares to tender a contract to investigate the potential cost and viability of the project.


In the fall of 2024, Premier Doug Ford announced his government would look into constructing a traffic-transit tunnel under a 50-kilometre stretch of the congested highway to address the economic cost of gridlock in Toronto.

While the government has offered few other details on the potential project, including estimated costs, the Progressive Conservative Party committed to building the massive infrastructure project during the recent provincial election.

The details were included in a January 2025 document called “401 tunnel feasibility and gridlock relief plan.”

The government document states that by 2051, the average drive time along the 401 between Highway 427 and Highway 404 will double from the current average of 22 minutes to 44 minutes. Those numbers are identical to a similar assessment from 2022.
....
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toron...cost-1.7464404
Quote:
Doug Ford's 401 tunnel vision could come with a nearly $100B price tag, expert says
Doug Ford's plan for a tunnel under Highway 401 has gone from a surprise announcement to a full on re-election pledge.

And according to one expert's cost estimate, it could be a near $100-billion idea, which would make it the single-most expensive Ontario election promise in the last 10 years, if not the province's history.

In September, the PC leader, who was then premier, said his government would explore a tunnel for drivers and public transit under the 401, with a feasibility study to follow. On his re-election campaign in February, Ford said, "We're going to get that tunnel built."

Little is known about the plans for the tunnel aside from the fact that the Ministry of Transportation says it could go from Brampton or Mississauga in the west to Scarborough or Markham in the east — a massive, costly, roughly 55-kilometre long project that some say may not solve Toronto's traffic woes.

The cost of the tunnel would likely exceed $50 billion, according to Brian Garrod, a past president of the Canadian Tunnelling Association who worked on the Channel Tunnel (or chunnel) connecting England with France as well as several major subway projects in Toronto.
.....
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  #2  
Old Posted Apr 9, 2025, 9:37 PM
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I can't believe people voted for this fool.
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Old Posted Apr 9, 2025, 11:09 PM
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I'm not a tunnel expert, but it's hard to imagine any solution (cut and cover, deep bore) not being extremely disruptive as well as astonishingly expensive. It's not just the $100 billion +...it'll also be painful the whole time.
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Old Posted Apr 10, 2025, 8:29 PM
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Embarrassing.
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  #5  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2025, 3:21 PM
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Does this plan have any specifics? Are we talking a super-express (only system-to-system interchanges), or something that creates new traffic pathways like the relatively new tunnel in Seattle?
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Old Posted Apr 11, 2025, 3:48 PM
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I'm assuming this tunnel is in addition to the existing 401 correct? So it would run in parallel with it, with traffic both on top and underground in the tunnel. Not a replacement for it, and then building stuff on top of it.
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Old Posted Apr 11, 2025, 6:46 PM
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It's never going to happen. The cost would be much higher than $100 billion and would be incredibly disruptive to the 401 which is already the busiest highway on the planet.

It's just Ford trying to make headlines as he is, despite currently spending $50 billion on transit in Greater Toronto, is at a loss as to how to fix the city's grinding traffic.
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  #8  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2025, 8:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy View Post
It's never going to happen. The cost would be much higher than $100 billion
That same sum pays for a lot of light rail and/or subway. Google is saying that the total construction cost of the Eglinton line was $12 billion...so do the math. It's not hard to imagine that 50~ miles of completely grade separated transit would make a difference for a lot of people.
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  #9  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2025, 9:36 PM
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Only grade separated transit needed is the completion of the Sheppard subway line and building the 407 Transitway, both of which are east-west corridors like the 401. Maybe also extending Bloor-Danforth subway along Dundas in Mississauga to connect to the Hurontario LRT, which is another east-west. They are already building the Ontario Line (aka Downtown Relief Line) and Eglinton Crosstown, both east-west lines. The rest can be on-street LRT. Mississauga currently looking into LRT along Derry Road which is another east-west corridor, and very close to the 401.

Future East-West Rapid Transit Corridor (Derry Road)
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  #10  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2025, 9:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmecklenborg View Post
Does this plan have any specifics? Are we talking a super-express (only system-to-system interchanges), or something that creates new traffic pathways like the relatively new tunnel in Seattle?
No - at this point it's little more than a study with a pretty broad scope that will take a couple years. This was basically electioneering.

I'm not actually necessarily opposed to tunneling as a way to increase road capacity in Toronto on principle - it's pretty common in Australian cities for instance. Notably Sydney with the WestConnex project but Brisbane and Melbourne also have tunneled (and tolled) sections of freeway through central areas. If it was going to be done in Toronto I can't see the sense in simply going underneath the existing 401 as opposed to creating other connections where highway traffic currently gets dumped onto city streets. This would be in addition to transit expansions of course.
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Old Posted Apr 11, 2025, 9:49 PM
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If they're trying to increase road capacity, I'd imagine it'd be a lot cheaper to build a second upper deck.
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  #12  
Old Posted Apr 11, 2025, 9:59 PM
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^Yeah an "ultra-express" raised portion or something similar - even in key areas would probably do the same for a lot less in cost. The big issue with the 401 of course is not just that it's the main (non-tolled) east-west route across Toronto but also a major trucking route. A solution that separates through traffic could work.

Of course Doug Ford LOVES the idea of tunnels so that's probably where the idea originally came from.
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Old Posted Apr 11, 2025, 10:06 PM
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Somehow I don't think trucking is going to be a major concern in a few years.
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Old Posted Apr 14, 2025, 2:43 PM
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An elevated solution would also be extremely disruptive. It involves closing what's below it during the work, though with some methods you might reopen areas during off-hours. Large staging areas would be needed. You have to clear the existing overpasses, meaning you're way up in the air and need long ramps to get there. Prefabbing can be limited to areas right next to big fab/staging areas.
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Old Posted Apr 14, 2025, 6:21 PM
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I think Toronto could significantly reduce traffic on the 401 by removing the tolls on the 407. Will probably means adding lanes to the 407, but that should be significantly cheaper than tunneling under the 401.

Then possibly implement express toll lanes on both highways, if tolls are needed to help fund these freeway expansions. Better to have both free and toll lanes on both highways than squeezing all the freeloaders onto one highway and all those willing to pay tolls on another, imho.

Good luck.
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Old Posted Apr 14, 2025, 6:25 PM
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The 407 is privately owned. It was sold by a previous Conservative government as part of the "Common Sense Revolution".
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Old Posted Apr 14, 2025, 8:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by niwell View Post
^Yeah an "ultra-express" raised portion or something similar - even in key areas would probably do the same for a lot less in cost. The big issue with the 401 of course is not just that it's the main (non-tolled) east-west route across Toronto but also a major trucking route. A solution that separates through traffic could work.

Of course Doug Ford LOVES the idea of tunnels so that's probably where the idea originally came from.
I dislike DoFo and his generally regressive ideas, but I would markedly favour a tunnel to a second deck above the 401, the only major considerations being cost and time to build. Raised highways are patently devolutive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doady
The 407 is privately owned. It was sold by a previous Conservative government as part of the "Common Sense Revolution".
An editorial in the Star the other day seemed to imply it was a foregone conclusion that the provincial government would eventually "fold" and buy back the 407 rather than build this tunnel.
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Old Posted Apr 14, 2025, 8:41 PM
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Why would a tunnel be better when an elevated deck would not only be like 1/5 the cost but could also be wider?
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Old Posted Apr 14, 2025, 8:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse View Post
Why would a tunnel be better when an elevated deck would not only be like 1/5 the cost but could also be wider?
mhays explained it quite well above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gresto View Post
An editorial in the Star the other day seemed to imply it was a foregone conclusion that the provincial government would eventually "fold" and buy back the 407 rather than build this tunnel.
I think selling the 407 turned out to be the best thing the Mike Harris government ever did. Transit ridership in the Toronto area, especially Mississauga and Brampton, skyrocketed after that. Brampton ridership per capita tripled and Missisauga almost doubled. GO started having to buy double decker buses to serve the suburbs. The tolls on the 407 have been awesome, and pro-car premier Doug Ford has no control over them too. It's just been a huge boon to transit.
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Old Posted Apr 14, 2025, 9:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse
Why would a tunnel be better when an elevated deck would not only be like 1/5 the cost but could also be wider?
In addition to the disruption during construction, for aesthetic reasons. The 401 is ugly enough; a massive scar across the city. A double-decker 401 would be twice as ugly.
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I think selling the 407 turned out to be the best thing the Mike Harris government ever did. Transit ridership in the Toronto area, especially Mississauga and Brampton, skyrocketed after that. Brampton ridership per capita tripled and Missisauga almost doubled. GO started having to buy double decker buses to serve the suburbs. The tolls on the 407 have been awesome, and pro-car premier Doug Ford has no control over them too. It's just been a huge boon to transit.
You make a good point, but the Harris boondoggle that increased public transit usage north of the city (great!) has been disastrous for Toronto traffic. Because of the high tolls, the 407 isn't used nearly as much as it could be. Imagine if it had remained public and untolled or low-tolled. It would be, now that it is more or less finished (though it could arguably use a diagonal connection on the east end from Kirby to, say, Port Hope), a perfect Toronto by-pass. It almost certainly wouldn't have enough lanes for the on-rush of traffic, but the corridor has plenty of room to expand. All of this is highway expansion is undesired, of course, but necessary.
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