Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

In this respect, their climate is more akin to central China than to Western Europe

To me the Prairies have climate conditions that are somehow similar to north-western China, in particular Shanxi province and northern Shaanxi province. For example Taiyuan, the capital of Shanxi, gets 205 mm of precipitation from April to July, and very little in winter. And their total for the entire year is only 430 mm, which is lower than in the Prairies.

Even away from the Yellow River, the farmland of Shanxi and northern Shaanxi is far more densely settled than the Prairies. Shanxi province overall has a population density of 220 inh. km² (this is less than the rest of Han-inhabited China, where density is 400 inh. per km²). For example if you take the Yan'an area in Northern Shaanxi, where Mao established his Communist movement after the Long March in the 1930s: this area on the edge of the Gobi desert is known to be pretty arid, and yet their densities are far higher than in the Prairies. Yan'an region has a density of 41 inh. per km², which is ten times South Dakota's.

That's how the area looks like, with the dry, windswept loess plateau and typical troglodyte dwellings to protect against the cold in winter and furnace in summer.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by someone123

It is strange to compare Newfoundland to South Dakota and talk mostly about agriculture. Most of the food produced in Newfoundland comes from the ocean and most of the population lives on the coast.

Ok but then how do you explain that British Columbia has only 5.4 inh. per km², and the island of Newfoundland 4.4 inh. per km², i.e. almost the same population density, despite the fact that both have seafood and BC has milder climate and more farmland?

Here again, it's not difficult to see that the length of colonization is a major factor. Same can be said for New Zealand: no reason why the fertile and mild areas of NZ should have lower population densities than the St Lawrence valley, other than the fact it was colonized considerably later than Québec.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

What's certain is the prairies could have easily accommodated 100 million people or more if we use Europe as a comparison. They are currently far, far, far from their maximum potential. Same for the US by the way, it could easily host 1 billion people (just look at China or Europe).

Avec ça, on peut savoir que tu n'as jamais passé un hiver dans les Prairies ou un autre endroit comme celui-là.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

and you're simply full of crap.


Prochain.

You have lots of credibility as someone who is arguing in another thread that a clearly racist slur against French Canadians isn’t racist.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Yes, you didn't bother responding to my post taking issue with your description of NB as a backwater with rather insignificant seaports.

I guess the definition of "backwater" is quite subjective, but the Port of Saint John is objectively one of the most significant seaports in Canada.

Sorry if I hurt local provincial pride, but the port of St John is rather insignificant in the larger scheme of things. Only 27 million tonnes of cargo in 2022, that's slightly less than "world famous" Port Freeport in Texas, or Port de Saint-Nazaire in France, which you've probably never heard about and which is rather insignificant among European ports.

And in terms of containers, the Port of St John looks like an even more minor port, with only 150,000 TEUs in 2022, which is 5 times less than the port of Dunkirk on the North Sea for example, itself a minor container port, and among the smallest container ports when compared with US seaports (even a backwater like Mobile has double the number of TEUs that get handled at Port of St John).

Even in terms of passengers, with only 148,000 passengers at the Port of St John in 2022, that's rather insignificant (the port of Ajaccio alone, in Corsica, had 10 times more passengers in 2022, and it's not even the busiest port in Corsica, the busiest is Bastia with 2 million passengers in 2022, to say nothing of Calais with 7 million or Piraeus in Athens with 9.5 million).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Avec ça, on peut savoir que tu n'as jamais passé un hiver dans les Prairies ou un autre endroit comme celui-là.

Winters in Manchuria are as harsh as in the Prairies, and yet Manchuria (which had as little inhabitants as the Prairies back in 1800) has now 108 million inhabitants, including 32 million in Heilongjiang, the harshest of all provinces in winter, which was inhabited only by a few bands of local Aborigenes until the middle of the 19th century.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Sorry if I hurt local provincial pride, but the port of St John is rather insignificant in the larger scheme of things. Only 27 million tonnes of cargo in 2022, that's slightly less than "world famous" Port Freeport in Texas, or Port de Saint-Nazaire in France, which you've probably never heard about and which is rather insignificant among European ports

I definitely know St-Nazaire. It's where the ships leave from in the Tintin books!

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You have lots of credibility as someone who is arguing in another thread that a clearly racist slur against French Canadians isn’t racist.

Get real. If you think calling a First Nations person an "Indian" isn't objectively worse than calling a French Canadian person a "Pepsi" you're just being willfully obtuse.

You can't possibly think French Canadians and First Nations have comparable problems with racism? Or are you one of those French Canadians that like to pretend Quebec doesn't have their own violent history of colonialism against first nations? Continued racism against First Nations is one of the most shameful aspects of contemporary Canadian society, it might not be a major problem in contemporary Quebec and Eastern Canada, but it's absolutely still a huge problem in Western Canada, specifically the prairies. I think you don't know what the hell you are talking about in trying to equate prejudice against French Canadians with First Nations, and I'm guessing you don't have much exposure to Western Canada.

Anyways, regards to me telling our friend from France that he's completely full of it too... what part of NB having rather insignificant seaports did New Brisavoine get correct?

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Sorry if I hurt local provincial pride, but the port of St John is rather insignificant in the larger scheme of things. Only 27 million tonnes of cargo in 2022, that's slightly less than "world famous" Port Freeport in Texas, or Port de Saint-Nazaire in France, which you've probably never heard about and which is rather insignificant among European ports.

And in terms of containers, the Port of St John looks like an even more minor port, with only 150,000 TEUs in 2022, which is 5 times less than the port of Dunkirk on the North Sea for example, itself a minor container port, and among the smallest container ports when compared with US seaports (even a backwater like Mobile has double the number of TEUs that get handled at Port of St John).

Even in terms of passengers, with only 148,000 passengers at the Port of St John in 2022, that's rather insignificant (the port of Ajaccio alone, in Corsica, had 10 times more passengers in 2022, and it's not even the busiest port in Corsica, the busiest is Bastia with 2 million passengers in 2022, to say nothing of Calais with 7 million or Piraeus in Athens with 9.5 million).

You didn't hurt my provincial pride, you just sound incredibly uninformed and needlessly flagrant.

Saint John the fastest growing container port in Atlantic Canada, and is on track to surpass 1 million TEUs in the next decade. It remains a top 4 port in the country by total tonnage, and it could reclaim its number 2 spot in the coming decade, pipeline or not.

The Port of Saint John will be a crucial part of Canada's shift in trade focus to Europe... no crap it doesn't compete with the likes of Rotterdam or Shanghai. Within the context of Canada, Saint John is one of the most strategically located and significant seaports in the whole country, so again, you are just displaying that you don't know what the hell you are talking about regarding Canada's only bilingual province.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I definitely know St-Nazaire. It's where the ships leave from in the Tintin books!

That was a long time ago.

Nowadays St Nazaire is insignificant as a port, but they have successfully reconverted as one of the major shipyards in the world. They build the largest cruise ships in the world, in particular.

• Video Link

[Acajack]

I am not equating anything and this is perfectly clear in my posts.

The problem is that you are minimizing a real slur against French Canadians and in the process insinuating that prejudice against us is largely absent. Prejudice can and does exist against anyone in Canada including Anglo-Canadians.

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Get real. If you think calling a First Nations person an "Indian" isn't objectively worse than calling a French Canadian person a "Pepsi" you're just being willfully obtuse.

You can't possibly think French Canadians and First Nations have comparable problems with racism? Or are you one of those French Canadians that like to pretend Quebec doesn't have their own violent history of colonialism against first nations? Continued racism against First Nations is one of the most shameful aspects of contemporary Canadian society, it might not be a major problem in contemporary Quebec and Eastern Canada, but it's absolutely still a huge problem in Western Canada, specifically the prairies. I think you don't know what the hell you are talking about in trying to equate prejudice against French Canadians with First Nations, and I'm guessing you don't have much exposure to Western Canada.

Anyways, regards to me telling our friend from France that he's completely full of it too... what part of NB having rather significant seaports did New Brisavoine get correct?

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am not equating anything and this is perfectly clear in my posts.

The problem is that you are minimizing a real slur against French Canadians and in the process insinuating that prejudice against us is largely absent. Prejudice can and does exist against anyone in Canada including Anglo-Canadians.

Nah, I'm not insinuating prejudice against French Canadians is largely absent... it's absolutely present.

However, when comparing the two slurs, one is much more comparable to honky while the other one is more comparable to the N word.

I wasn't being sarcastic when I called it the "I" world, it's a really hurtful and vicious word when directed at First Nations, and continues to be used quite frequently by racists across Canada to this day (especially out west), while the "P" word is definitely no longer commonly used. Are you really sure no French Canadians have reclaimed the word? (Like how many Irish Canadians use the term Mick jokingly to refer to themselves)

If it was such a terrible ethnic slur, why the hell was the "Colisée Pepsi" ever named that in the first place?

[New Brisavoine]

In other news we had 26 degrees in Paris today, with Californian sunshine. People picnicking outside in the Bois de Boulogne tonight like it's July.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

In other news we had 26 degrees in Paris today, with Californian sunshine. People picnicking outside in the Bois de Boulogne tonight like it's July.

+2 with a chance of snow today in Quebec City and +4 and cloudy here in Saint Jean, Nouveau Brunswick, but it's finally warming up, it was a long Acadian winter... spring is finally here.

[Acajack]

Quebec poll - francophones only

LIB 36
BLOC 30
CON 23
NDP 6

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

+2 with a chance of snow today in Quebec City and +4 and cloudy here in Saint Jean, Nouveau Brunswick, but it's finally warming up, it was a long Acadian winter... spring is finally here.

Still +18 at midnight here. I cannot even begin to imagine starting April with temperatures around 0... (although it once briefly snowed in Toulouse on Easter when I was a teenager, but that was a freak event, and it was back to temperatures in the upper 10s in the next days)

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Quebec poll - francophones only

LIB 36
BLOC 30
CON 23
NDP 6

That's actually tighter than some other polls and far from 2011 NDP levels. Probably enough for a majority of the rest of Canada numbers hold but not enough to do it with a slide everywhere else.

[MolsonExport]

I thought the Liberals weren't supposed to win any seats outside of Montreal island?

So we were told...

[lio45]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I thought the Liberals weren't supposed to win any seats outside of Montreal island?

So we were told...

No one knows for sure. It’s like saying that if you’ve never ventured anywhere near your riding in your life, can’t spot it on a map even approximately, and spend the entire electoral campaign gambling in Las Vegas, you’re “not supposed to win”, but as we saw already, anything can happen in politics, regardless of the odds.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Still +18 at midnight here. I cannot even begin to imagine starting April with temperatures around 0... (although it once briefly snowed in Toulouse on Easter when I was a teenager, but that was a freak event, and it was back to temperatures in the upper 10s in the next days)

And to think... Acadie is one of the milder parts of Canada.

You should see April in Saskatchewan... temperatures can be well below zero at the start of April. Saskatchewan is warmer than New Brunswick right now, and Ontario's just had some major ice storms. Such is the difference between climate and weather.

France definitely has it easy when it comes to weather, but as someone that grew up on the prairies, I find Saint Jean's milder, oceanic influenced climate far preferable to the extremes of a city like Winnipeg.