Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Southernmost Francophone settlements in Ontario. Embrun is a city in France by the way (in one of the most picturesque parts of the country).

Embrun used to be 80+% francophone but is now under pressure from anglicization. A majority of households
probably function in English there now. Casselman further east is faring better for now and is still over 80% francophone.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Double post

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Moncton. Slightly less segregated than Ottawa, but still pretty separate. "Chacun chez soi".

Yes concentrated around the independent city of Dieppe and in the eastern part of Moncton itself where the Université de Moncton and Georges-Dumont hospital are.

[Acajack]

One of my father's friends used to always say that French Canadians congregate in the eastern parts of cities because it's to be closer to France and Rome (Vatican).

It was cute but a more logical explanation is that in North America the dominant winds blow west to east. In a city this is the direction of the pollution. Poorer districts are generally in the east ends of cities here.

In Winnipeg, St-Boniface is also on the east side of town.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes concentrated around the independent city of Dieppe and in the eastern part of Moncton itself where the Université de Moncton and Georges-Dumont hospital are.

You would be surprised how "English" Dieppe is. In fact they are building a new K-12 English school to hold the increasing enrollment. Then you can add in the decreasing French birth rate.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by elly63

You would be surprised how "English" Dieppe is. In fact they are building a new K-12 English school to hold the increasing enrollment. Then you can add in the decreasing French birth rate.

Yes I know. It’s been discussed quite a bit in the francophone media.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Acajack

So what part of "there will be so many immigrants in Quebec that they will make it impossible for the dropping share of French Canadians to make their own democratic decisions - yay!" am I misunderstanding?

Because he believes in their manifest destiny, Century Initiative for the win.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Embrun used to be 80+% francophone but is now under pressure from anglicization. A majority of households
probably function in English there now. Casselman further east is faring better for now and is still over 80% francophone.

The Eastern Townships used to be 80% Anglophone but now it is 90% Francophone. The West Island of Montreal, further west, is faring better for now and is still over 45% anglophone.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

The Québec election is barely in a year and a half though. It might not be long enough for things to play out. If the PQ just manages to get elected (which will be complicated with the current international situation), they could benefit from a "retour de balancier" against Canada/the federation, but I would see that happening more in 2027 or 2028.

Although of course the tempo of politics can be quite fast these days, so who knows.

Though the PQ still benefits from a government that's drowning in scandals, as well as other weak opposition with the PLQ still leaderless and the QS ripping itself apart. So I do still feel the PQ has a fair chance, even if my own personal preference is the continuation of the CAQ's third way.

A year and a half may be sufficient time for Quebecois to drown in the realities of a Carney mandate, realizing that Carney's not the saviour of jobs and effective Trump fighter that he's marketed to be at the moment. If Carney acts on the Liberal's interventionist impulses, it'll provoke Quebec voters further.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes I know. It’s been discussed quite a bit in the francophone media.

Has it? What are they saying? I think things have become less political now than they've been (vis a vis English/French). It's more like a feeling of can't we get along. There might even be an unsaid (my opinion only) backlash against the rapid influx and number of immigrants which rightly or wrongly I was told was the reason for the new school.

I've always thought the UdeM had an interesting dynamic in town. I was under the impression that when the university was being created the intention was for a bilingual university along the lines of the University of Ottawa and fundraising was geared towards that. I have no proof but apparently when that didn't turn out to be the case there were some ruffled feathers and then when it became kind of a bed of activism for French causes that further caused a rift with the community.

It's strange that Moncton still does not have a fully featured English university (I know about Crandall)

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by elly63

Has it? What are they saying? I think things have become less political now than they've been (vis a vis English/French). It's more like a feeling of can't we get along. There might even be an unsaid (my opinion only) backlash against the rapid influx and number of immigrants which rightly or wrongly I was told was the reason for the new school.

I've always thought the UdeM had an interesting dynamic in town. I was under the impression that when the university was being created the intention was for a bilingual university along the lines of the University of Ottawa and fundraising was geared towards that. I have no proof but apparently when that didn't turn out to be the case there were some ruffled feathers and then when it became kind of a bed of activism for French causes that further caused a rift with the community.

It's strange that Moncton still does not have a fully featured English university (I know about Crandall)

Mount Allison is only 30 minutes from Moncton

I agree though, Moncton should have a bilingual university along the lines of the University of Ottawa.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Mount Allison is only 30 minutes from Moncton

I agree though, Moncton should have a bilingual university along the lines of the University of Ottawa.

Mount A is still not considered a Moncton university. I know when I was growing up very few people went there. Almost everybody in my sphere of family, friends, siblings and their friends went to UNB/X/Acadia/SMU/Dal. It's funny now that I think about it, kids must have wanted to get away.

It's not well known that Mount A purchased or leased (I can't recall) the old Moncton airport terminal, I think to use as a satellite campus. AFAIK it had nothing to do with an aviation program. I'm thinking there was a structural issue that canned the plans to make it a reality (asbestos?) They must have sold it, I can't recall the time frame (2006?) and I can't find anything on it.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by Acajack

So what part of "there will be so many immigrants in Quebec that they will make it impossible for the dropping share of French Canadians to make their own democratic decisions - yay!" am I misunderstanding?

I've been told by a good source that the easiest way to immigrate to Canada right now is to have a good command of French.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

One of my father's friends used to always say that French Canadians congregate in the eastern parts of cities because it's to be closer to France and Rome (Vatican).

It was cute but a more logical explanation is that in North America the dominant winds blow west to east. In a city this is the direction of the pollution. Poorer districts are generally in the east ends of cities here.

In Winnipeg, St-Boniface is also on the east side of town.

Definitely not the case for Timmins as the majority francophone part of the city is Mountjoy and it is West of the city centre. In Sudbury it's to the North of the city centre in the area known as The Valley as well as Chelmsford. For North Bay there is no majority francophone section but West Nipissing to the West which includes Sturgeon Falls is majority francophone.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Architype

I've been told by a good source that the easiest way to immigrate to Canada right now is to have a good command of French.

I've heard that a lot.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Embrun used to be 80+% francophone but is now under pressure from anglicization. A majority of households
probably function in English there now. Casselman further east is faring better for now and is still over 80% francophone.

And this is the Westernmost Francophone settlement in Canada that I could find (though obviously largely undergoing Anglicization). It's only 300 km (300, not 3,000) from the Rocky Mountains.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Though the PQ still benefits from a government that's drowning in scandals, as well as other weak opposition with the PLQ still leaderless and the QS ripping itself apart. So I do still feel the PQ has a fair chance, even if my own personal preference is the continuation of the CAQ's third way.

A year and a half may be sufficient time for Quebecois to drown in the realities of a Carney mandate, realizing that Carney's not the saviour of jobs and effective Trump fighter that he's marketed to be at the moment. If Carney acts on the Liberal's interventionist impulses, it'll provoke Quebec voters further.

If he has 45 Quebec MPs he will need to develop a new Quebec program. Maybe just the typical pandering but it might also be a new economic deal.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

And this is the Westernmost Francophone settlement in Canada that I could find (though obviously largely undergoing Anglicization). It's only 300 km (300, not 3,000) from the Rocky Mountains.

Yes the Peace River district of NW Alberta is the furthest western point of the natural French Canadian ecumen. (That has somewhat survived to this day.)

Vancouver used to have a very small francophone neighbourhood called Maillardville but it has been absorbed by the larger city long ago and no longer exists in any tangible way.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Architype

I've been told by a good source that the easiest way to immigrate to Canada right now is to have a good command of French.

I am not even sure that's true given the numerous stories in the media about francophone newcomers (immigrants, students, etc.) being rejected by the feds, but even so, it's still possible that the French Canadian population gets swamped and its democratic will stymied by demographic shifts, even if most of the people involved have knowledge of French. Francophones from around the world aren't French Canadians, or perhaps more exactly, aren't necessarily guaranteed to become similar to French Canadians over time. Though my 20th century immigrant forebears and their descendants eventually did.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Definitely not the case for Timmins as the majority francophone part of the city is Mountjoy and it is West of the city centre. In Sudbury it's to the North of the city centre in the area known as The Valley as well as Chelmsford. For North Bay there is no majority francophone section but West Nipissing to the West which includes Sturgeon Falls is majority francophone.

Yes, there are exceptions. I find Northern Ontario didn't really follow typical French Canadian development patterns in terms of a bunch of things, including geographic dispersal.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

The Eastern Townships used to be 80% Anglophone but now it is 90% Francophone. The West Island of Montreal, further west, is faring better for now and is still over 45% anglophone.

But Eastern Townships anglophones declined in relative numbers due to most of them leaving of their own volition, arguably because they didn't want to live in a society increasingly dominated and run by francophones.

The francophones in Eastern Ontario aren't leaving. They are being dominated and assimilated on site in their own communities where they've always been.

By and large, with some exceptions, those anglophones who have stayed in the Eastern Townships are not being assimilated to French. Even if they are only 6-8% of the overall population today.

And BTW, the so-called "West Island" was quite predominantly francophone as recently as the 1960s. It's an example of a historically francophone area that was taken over by anglophones, not of a historical anglo bastion under unfair pressure from French.