Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Now it makes sense why Trump's preferred candidate Carney wants to contest loi 96 in court:

La loi 96 du Québec et la gestion de l’offre dans la mire de Donald Trump
https://www.journaldemontreal.com/2025/0...n-de-loffre-dans-la-mire-de-donald-trump


versus the PCC and NPD position:

Le NPD et le Parti conservateur n’interviendraient pas contre la loi 96 du Québec
https://www.journaldequebec.com/2025/03/...ntre-la-loi-96-du-quebec-en-cour-supreme

Not sure this necessarily helps the cause of Canadian federalism in the long run. American corporations don't have a problem adapting to the local language in societies far smaller than Quebec and with languages way more obscure than French. So at least part of this reticence is attributable to the "they're in Canada, why don't they just speak English?" mindset.

You couldn't make that case against French in Quebec if...

(Notable that the Americans have stayed out of the Quebec language debate in the 50+ years that it's raged on. In spite of the best efforts of Anglo-Quebecers to get them involved. They've never bitten. Until now.)

[MolsonExport]

Those dastardly Quebec Anglos. If only they knew their place...

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not sure this necessarily helps the cause of Canadian federalism in the long run. American corporations don't have a problem adapting to the local language in societies far smaller than Quebec and with languages way more obscure than French. So at least part of this reticence is attributable to the "they're in Canada, why don't they just speak English?" mindset.

You couldn't make that case against French in Quebec if...

(Notable that the Americans have stayed out of the Quebec language debate in the 50+ years that it's raged on. In spite of the best efforts of Anglo-Quebecers to get them involved. They've never bitten. Until now.)

I see the time horizon as even shorter. A Carney majority would be the greatest gift to PSPP and the PQ, and pretty much accelerates the push for sovereignty. Carney's evident disinterest in Quebec and the future of French, coupled with an interventionist approach to federalism and no declaration of respect for Quebec's autonomy.

I do wonder if Carney's approach to Quebec is due to the undue influence of Trudeau era Angryphone partisans pulling the strings in the background. It will be an absolute trainwreck for the federalist cause, and I'm not looking forward to it.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

I see the time horizon as even shorter. A Carney majority would be the greatest gift to PSPP and the PQ, and pretty much accelerates the push for sovereignty. Carney's evident disinterest in Quebec and the future of French, coupled with an interventionist approach to federalism and no declaration of respect for Quebec's autonomy.

I do wonder if Carney's approach to Quebec is due to the undue influence of Trudeau era partisans pulling the strings in the background.

Do you seriously think an independence referendum would pass? I’m sorry, but I just don’t think it’s possible given how many newcomers have arrived in Quebec since the last referendum…they’d overwhelmingly vote non!

[mousquet]

Good Lord, finally the French are about to address psychological issues in our country.

• Video Link

We've had a cultural problem here. Psychological and psychiatric disorders have been considered shameful diseases, cause you're always supposed to be mentally strong and well balanced here in France.
Being hit by any mental disorder is deemed as weird, creepy weakness. It's just like catching syphilis, something that would put you to bad shame.

So mental health has been neglected in France, unlike in Canada, I heard. But the French officials seem to finally have realized that it's been affecting more and more of us (see Brisavoine, for instance), so it looks like they're determined to do something about it.
And communication matters very much here. It's like - folks, don't feel ashamed. Don't try to deal with it on your own. Some people out here will help you.

I'm glad the French would finally grow more aware of this, cause it's been some kind of epidemic and we need to do something about it.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Do you seriously think an independence referendum would pass? I’m sorry, but I just don’t think it’s possible given how many newcomers have arrived in Quebec since the last referendum…they’d overwhelmingly vote non!

When's the last time you set foot in Quebec? Immigrants since 1995 aren't rabidly pro-federalist. It's a mélange that doesn't move the needle on sovereignist intentions.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by mousquet

So mental health has been neglected in France, unlike in Canada, I heard. But the French officials seem to finally have realized that it's been affecting more and more of us (see Brisavoine, for instance), so it looks like they're determined to do something about it.

I don't think remote armchair psychological assessments of fellow posters on an anonymous forum are particularly insightful or useful.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

When's the last time you set foot in Quebec? Immigrants since 1995 aren't rabidly pro-federalist. It's a mélange that doesn't move the needle on sovereignist intentions.

They are not unanimously pro-federalism, more like 75-25 probably. But they still move the needle towards the Non a bit. Which might be good for keeping Quebec in Canada but it's not necessarily a recipe for societal stability. Wouldn't you agree?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Those dastardly Quebec Anglos. If only they knew their place...

Full disclosure in case you weren't already aware: I actually assign them a pretty decent share of responsibility for the separatist threat that has seriously threatened the unity of our country on at least two occasions so far.

I know almost no one else thinks this and that they are always portrayed as the heroes or victims of this whole thing, but it's all smoke and mirrors. (Note that I never would have thought this until I actually moved to Quebec.)

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

When's the last time you set foot in Quebec? Immigrants since 1995 aren't rabidly pro-federalist. It's a mélange that doesn't move the needle on sovereignist intentions.

Last summer… I visit Montreal semi regularly.

I highly doubt many immigrants and their children would vote for Quebec to become an independent country. I think many French speaking immigrants can get behind the anti English laws as much those laws help them advance their careers… but to vote in favour of secession from Canada? Come off it. I don’t think there’s a chance in hell the PQ will get minorities to vote in favour of independence in any sort of significant numbers. A new referendum would be dead in the water, and the PQ know this… I suspect you know this too.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Do you seriously think an independence referendum would pass? I’m sorry, but I just don’t think it’s possible given how many newcomers have arrived in Quebec since the last referendum…they’d overwhelmingly vote non!

It seems unlikely at this point I'd agree, for this reason and a number of others.

But things can change really fast. They definitely did in 1995, if you recall.

We're in an era where Donald Trump has been elected not once but twice to the presidency of the United States.

Compared to those odds, Quebec independence is almost a sure thing historically.

[harls]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I actually assign them a pretty decent share of responsibility for the separatist threat that has seriously threatened the unity of our country on at least two occasions so far.

What would these occasions be? 1980 and 1995?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Last summer… I visit Montreal semi regularly.

I highly doubt many immigrants and their children would vote for Quebec to become an independent country. I think many French speaking immigrants can get behind the anti English laws as much those laws help them advance their careers… but to vote in favour of secession from Canada? Come off it. I don’t think there’s a chance in hell the PQ will get minorities to vote in favour of independence in any sort of significant numbers. A new referendum would be dead in the water, and the PQ know this… I suspect you know this too.

In 1995 it is estimated that "allophones" voted in a proportion of about 25% for the Oui. (Anglophones voted 97% for the Non.)

And in 1995, allophones in general were far less integrated within the francophone community than they are today.

As I've mentioned, they'd still mostly be for the Non. Just not overwhelmingly so.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by harls

What would these occasions be? 1980 and 1995?

Serious question?

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Acajack

They are not unanimously pro-federalism, more like 75-25 probably. But they still move the needle towards the Non a bit. Which might be good for keeping Quebec in Canada but it's not necessarily a recipe for societal stability. Wouldn't you agree?

75-25 for the first generation perhaps, but based on what I hear from relatives who have kids raised in Rive Sud, their views pretty much conform with the Quebec mainstream by the second generation, unless they belong to a religious culture that's visibly fighting secularism.

[harls]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Serious question?

No.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Last summer… I visit Montreal semi regularly.

I highly doubt many immigrants and their children would vote for Quebec to become an independent country. I think many French speaking immigrants can get behind the anti English laws as much those laws help them advance their careers… but to vote in favour of secession from Canada? Come off it. I don’t think there’s a chance in hell the PQ will get minorities to vote in favour of independence in any sort of significant numbers. A new referendum would be dead in the water, and the PQ know this… I suspect you know this too.

As a federalist myself, this cockiness will the undoing of Canada in the long run, especially if Ottawa fails to respect Quebec's autonomy. No, the PQ and sovereignty is far from dead in the water, and things can change on a dime in Quebec. There are plenty of immigrants, especially the younger folks and 2nd/3rd generation who have fully integrated into Quebec's mainstream, and who does not view sovereignty from a purely detached ethnic lense.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It seems unlikely at this point I'd agree, for this reason and a number of others.

But things can change really fast. They definitely did in 1995, if you recall.

We're in an era where Donald Trump has been elected not once but twice to the presidency of the United States.

Compared to those odds, Quebec independence is almost a sure thing historically.

I think the odds assess of a Quebec Independence referendum succeeding is even lower than Trump getting a third term ������

Immigrants tend to have more kids than the Quebec average, and they don’t want to close the door to moving elsewhere in Canada. I think the PQ will especially have a hard time convincing Muslim Quebecers to support the cause of Quebec independence, and they are quite a large and growing cohort of Quebec residents.

I’m reminded of this linguistic map of mother tongues in Montreal…



It’s not like the rest of Quebec hasn’t seen a lot of demographic change as well.

I just don’t think the “winning conditions” exist for the “Oui” side to win.

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

As a federalist myself, this cockiness will the undoing of Canada in the long run, especially if Ottawa fails to respect Quebec's autonomy. No, the PQ and sovereignty is far from dead in the water, and things can change on a dime in Quebec.

Good luck convincing immigrants and their children that Quebec leaving Canada is in their best interests.

It’s just not logical that minorities will suddenly embrace the cause of Quebec independence… I think the vast majority will prefer to remain part of Canada.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Good luck convincing immigrants and their children that Quebec leaving Canada is in their best interests.

It’s just not logical that minorities will suddenly embrace the cause of Quebec independence… I think the vast majority will prefer to remain part of Canada.

Hilarious. I literally have nieces who are sympathetic to the sovereigist cause, raised in the Montreal area. Perhaps you don't realize I'm an Allophone, and not a pure laine.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't think remote armchair psychological assessments of fellow posters on an anonymous forum are particularly insightful or useful.

You're damn right. I was only teasing him because he's been obnoxious. But I'm actually not much into "psychologie de comptoir".

I might as well see a therapist to talk about my own little issues to them, but I'm afraid it would bore them, lol.