The 401 - Page 68

MolsonExport · #**1341** Posted **Mar 18, 2025, 8:52 PM**

Quote:

Gardiner / DVP which function as east-west expressways

Doesn't extend across the GTA. Doesn't even cross the entire city proper of Toronto.

Djeffery · #**1342** Posted **Mar 18, 2025, 9:49 PM**

ME did say "free" as well, so the 407 doesn't fit that. And no one would take the Gardiner to the DVP to try to transit past the GTA. Those 2 highways are really for getting into and out of downtown from either side, not really going all the way through. If you were coming from the west on the 403, you would continue up the 403 to the 401 or better yet the 427 up to the 401 before you would ever consider going through downtown and still only end up on the 401. Unless it was middle of the night and no construction, maybe.

And what kind of option is the 413 going to really be? Fine for going to Barrie, but nothing going east of the 400.

Loco101 · #**1343** Posted **Mar 18, 2025, 9:57 PM**

I wonder what the Gardiner Expressway would be like had it been completed across Scarborough? And the effect on 401 traffic.

Doady · #**1344** Posted **Mar 18, 2025, 10:19 PM**

DVP and Scarborough Expressway converging onto the Gardiner downtown, the Gardiner becomes even more bottlenecked.

I think 407 sold by the Tories was a blessing in disguise for the GTA. Ideally, that toll revenue should have gone back to the government instead of private profits, but still I am happy how the Tories help to curb sprawl and car use in the GTA.

As for bypass, probably London, Ottawa, and Sault Sainte Marie needs one more than the GTA. Highway 401 at least bypasses the downtown and inner city of Toronto.

Djeffery · #**1345** Posted **Mar 19, 2025, 1:53 AM**

The 401 barely slices through a small portion of the urban part of London, don't think there is anything to really bypass. The only traffic backups here are because of the construction going on. Once all this infrastructure is done, and if they ever decide to do the talked-about 4 lanes through, it will be fine for decades I think.

haljackey · #**1346** Posted **Mar 19, 2025, 4:27 AM**

A true 401/Toronto bypass could look something like this. It would steer north of all the urbanized area and keep you away from Toronto metro as much as possible.

I got it starting at the 402 and ending at the 412. Since Douggie said the 407 East will be free soon you can continue along the 407/418 to rejoin the 401.

Doady · #**1347** Posted **Mar 19, 2025, 4:44 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Djeffery

The 401 barely slices through a small portion of the urban part of London, don't think there is anything to really bypass. The only traffic backups here are because of the construction going on. Once all this infrastructure is done, and if they ever decide to do the talked-about 4 lanes through, it will be fine for decades I think.

I was referring to the north-south highway that goes through downtown London.

MolsonExport · #**1348** Posted **Mar 19, 2025, 11:45 AM**

There is none.

Innsertnamehere · #**1349** Posted **Mar 19, 2025, 4:50 PM**

The gap between the 404 and 400 is tough to "crack" as its full of urbanized areas and natural heritage.

An ideal bypass would look like this to me - red already planned corridors, orange new corridors:

This would grab traffic from London, Sarnia, and Windsor, provide a direct connection to / through Kitchener, minimize new corridors needed. You would probably have to tunnel a bit between the 404 and 400 though, that's not an easy corridor.

sonysnob · #**1350** Posted **Mar 19, 2025, 10:31 PM**

I think the fact that GTA West (I still hate the 413 number) doesn't extend east of the 400 is an oversight.

I'm not sure how they'd get to the 404 without a lot of disruption, but another east-west highway in the northern suburbs seems like a necessity to me.

haljackey · #**1351** Posted **Mar 20, 2025, 1:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonysnob

I think the fact that GTA West (I still hate the 413 number) doesn't extend east of the 400 is an oversight.

I guess they're thinking the Bradford Bypass is good enough?

And a freeway connection between Guelph and Brampton makes total sense to me. 401 is pretty much a single point of failure here. You can widen it all you want but if there's a bad crash/bridge issue (usually from those stupid dump truck beds) it shuts down the highway.

401's got the 403 to bypass some traffic to the south, but nothing to the north. I think the growth / demand is there now to do something about that missing gap and get some redundancy. Guess the 413 and Highway 7 freeway from Kitchener to Guelph need to be done first, however.

Acajack · #**1352** Posted **Mar 20, 2025, 1:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Quebec? It’s hit or miss though there are left-lane hoggers.

I find left-lane hoggers in Quebec have a short lifespan.

It only takes a few seconds to get someone right on your rear end flashing their lights at you.

The difference is quite noticeable when you drive on the 417 in Ottawa and then the A-50 in Gatineau a few minutes later.

YOWetal · #**1353** Posted **Mar 20, 2025, 1:37 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

I find left-lane hoggers in Quebec have a short lifespan.

It only takes a few seconds to get someone right on your rear end flashing their lights at you.

The difference is quite noticeable when you drive on the 417 in Ottawa and then the A-50 in Gatineau a few minutes later.

100%. The 401 is getting horrible for that. The 417 is 110 which you would think would help but now a lot of people seem to think 110 is perfectly sufficient and they are fine to be in the left lane doing that. Trucks passing each other when one is going 105 and one 106 should be banned somehow though. Take off the speed limiters and make a special rule for trucks that exceed the speed limit which doesn't seem like a problem anyway. It's not Smokey and the Bandit anymore.

Innsertnamehere · #**1354** Posted **Mar 20, 2025, 2:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by haljackey

I guess they're thinking the Bradford Bypass is good enough?

And a freeway connection between Guelph and Brampton makes total sense to me. 401 is pretty much a single point of failure here. You can widen it all you want but if there's a bad crash/bridge issue (usually from those stupid dump truck beds) it shuts down the highway.

401's got the 403 to bypass some traffic to the south, but nothing to the north. I think the growth / demand is there now to do something about that missing gap and get some redundancy. Guess the 413 and Highway 7 freeway from Kitchener to Guelph need to be done first, however.

MTO looked at that connection as a part of the 413 study about a decade ago and ruled against it for now, instead opting for 10-laning the 401 between Kitchener and Milton.

Similar story to the Mid-Penn, they opted against it and instead plan to widen the QEW. Widenings have a lot less environmental impact and are far less controversial.

Not to say it will never return - I do think MTO should be protecting a corridor for it, but it's not planned any time soon either.

sonysnob · #**1355** Posted **Mar 29, 2025, 6:32 PM**

Sunday morning traffic on the 401. Looking east from Kipling:

https://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_354_east_WB_Oct24_42x28.jpg

905er · #**1356** Posted **Apr 1, 2025, 1:23 AM**

GTA highways are incredibly filthy and dirty... I've never seen them look so bad.. all the grass patches along the 403 and 401 and 410.. all covered in trash and litter, just a bloody mess and quite embarrassing tbh. How frequent does clean up happen and how is responsible for the clean up? quite sad to see how gross people are/

haljackey · #**1357** Posted **Apr 1, 2025, 1:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 905er

GTA highways are incredibly filthy and dirty... I've never seen them look so bad.. all the grass patches along the 403 and 401 and 410.. all covered in trash and litter, just a bloody mess and quite embarrassing tbh. How frequent does clean up happen and how is responsible for the clean up? quite sad to see how gross people are/

...Have you been to Detroit? Or any other rust belt or redneck US city? 401 is clean compared to them

Besides, this time of the year is going to be the dirtiest time due to all the crap in the now melted snow piles- not to mention all the sand and residue left over from winter maintenance. Check back in a month or so.

I am not making excuses for our littering habits, just giving some context.

Loco101 · #**1358** Posted **Apr 2, 2025, 3:04 AM**

I agree that the 401 is much cleaner than any freeway going through American cities than I have driven on. It's always dirty right after the snow melts. From my visits there, the company that has the contract for highway maintenance does a decent job. The 407 ETR is probably the cleanest but that's because they have the money and more staff.

sonysnob · #**1359** Posted **Apr 4, 2025, 7:17 PM**

Two views looking easterly along Highway 401 from the Winston Churchill Boulevard overpass in Mississauga. These photos are from October, 2024:

https://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_333_east_EB_Oct24_42x28.jpg

https://www.asphaltplanet.ca/ON/hwy_401_images/401_cl_333_east_WB_Oct24_42x28.jpg

Ozabald · #**1360** Posted **Apr 4, 2025, 9:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by haljackey

...Have you been to Detroit? Or any other rust belt or redneck US city? 401 is clean compared to them

Besides, this time of the year is going to be the dirtiest time due to all the crap in the now melted snow piles- not to mention all the sand and residue left over from winter maintenance. Check back in a month or so.

I am not making excuses for our littering habits, just giving some context.

Some of the dirtiest US highways I have driven on are in blue states. I-5 through Seattle has become dirty and full of graffiti. California highways have a level of dirty unmatched; especially CA-99 through the Central Valley - gross!! AZDOT does a good job with keeping their highways clean in Arizona. Phoenix metro highways are reasonable clean. Want to see a dirty highway in Canada; drive the Outer Ring Road in St. John's. Filthy! The highway is completely shut down for a weekend every spring to clean-up the crap. https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/video/9.4248926