Canadian Federal Election

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

There's lots of treatises on that here over the past 18 months.
Most of why they are hated are worldwide problems and exaggerated. Leaving Covid out of it as that's a big can of worms, they focussed on a lot of virtue signaling which was a distraction but arguing it's the cause of our economic malaise is doubtful. They spent more than a Carney or Conservative government would have. And therefore needed some tax the rich policies that dampened growth. A lot of the biggest complainers about that are some of the beneficiaries of said spending of course. They talked down our resource sector which dampened growth but it's also mostly on the margins.

A Conservative government reverses all that for a bit of growth but draconian cuts and reckless spending cuts very easily might be worse. They might end a bit of wokeness and clean up our streets a bit but is all that worth it? If they have a concrete plan on these two issues they might get my vote but it will be a reluctant one for sure.

A Conservitive go

I agree completely about virtue signalling. It’s my biggest issue with Trudeau. I might vote conservative if they just said they would bring back plastic straws ha ha.

I personally think that virtue signalling made people believe things are not what they really are. Environmental talk as an example made people feel like the natural resources sector was under attack but in reality it grew significantly under Trudeau. We produce 30% more oil today than under Harper as an example. Most people feel the opposite though because of their language. It didn’t help their cause.

Capital gains inclusion rate is another one. As a middle class Canadian that’s a good thing but it was sold as an attack on wealth so people got their backs up.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by trueviking

I took a semester of university in Kathmandu, Nepal and I remember riding in a rickety old bus on a narrow road with no guardrails clinging to a thousand foot cliff along the side of a mountain. In that moment I didn’t care that my bus driver wasn’t charismatic and likeable. I really cared that he had driven that road before and knew exactly how to get through it without falling off the cliff.

That is how I see the election right now.

Well put. And same here.

I'll be picking the party with the best plan and the least hint of ideology. Any party pushing culture wars is off my list.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by yaletown_fella

It depends how you measure economic growth.

Under Carney headline GDP will only nominally increase due to higher unskilled immigration, inflation, new part time/gig work and new public sector jobs but per capita median GDP will fall.

Yes, it will be the result of more Quantitative Easing and net zero restrictions on building, putting upwards pressure on housing.

Investors will sell off energy stocks and pile into real estate .

I assume you already have his election campaign playbook?

[travis3000]

Originally Posted by samne

The more I hear Carney, the more unremarkable and uninspiring he is. Just a low energy Technocrat reading a script.

I don't think many Canadians have seen anything much past headlines and actually heard him speak or in action with people.

I cannot see him motivating swing voters in an election. Singh is much better at motivating his base. Trudeau was a terrible Manager, but incredible politician/communicator. This matters.

Libs are going to work extremely hard to hammer on the fear factor of Pierre and Trump to compensate for this. Only option.

Singh has no hope in hell. His goose is cooked. Carney is boring. A bland piece of white bread. But after 9 years of sprinkles and candy, and with an unstable circus show in the USA, a dry piece of bread might just be what the doctor orders for this specific election cycle.

So much can (and will) change between now and late April/early May when the election is happening. A CPC majority is still in the cards, as is a LPC majority. Anything in between should still be considered possible. Carney has pros and cons, same with PP. Trump will be the ultimate wildcard in this election.

Ignore all polls until an actual election is called. Then start paying attention. Everything right now is noise. The electorate is very fickle right now. Buckle up guys! She's going to be a wild ride.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by samne

The only messaging I’m seeing from the Libs is it’s a choice between the Liberals or Trump/Pierre.

Probably in Libs best interest to keep this trade war going as long as possible as opposed to the way Mexico and the UK handled it.

Do you think there are no tariffs on Mexican goods right now? Because that would be incorrect.

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

One thing about both Trudeaus, is that they were fairly unpopular during the majority of their tenure as PM's. However, when there is a crisis, they rise to the occasion. With Pierre Trudeau, it was the October Crisis in 1970. With Justin, it was COVID and Trump 2025.

I actually think that Trudeau would have pulled off the election. had he remained leader of Canada. If only because Poilievre has all but proven he is completely incompetent to deal with a crisis situation that we face at present.

Huh?

It was Justin who popped the 51st state idea into Trump’s head, saying Canada couldn’t survive as a nation with the tariffs… Justin’s complete incompetence is why Canada is fighting for independence in the first place… his one grandiose doesn’t has fooled you.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Huh?

It was Justin who popped the 51st state idea into Trump’s head, saying Canada couldn’t survive as a nation with the tariffs… Justin’s complete incompetence is why Canada is fighting for independence in the first place… his one grandiose doesn’t has fooled you.

Do you have a source for that?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Huh?

It was Justin who popped the 51st state idea into Trump’s head, saying Canada couldn’t survive as a nation with the tariffs… Justin’s complete incompetence is why Canada is fighting for independence in the first place… his one grandiose doesn’t has fooled you.

Elections, like markets, are forward looking.

It's not about Justin anymore. We want to know who is the best manager and leader through this crisis.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Do you think there are no tariffs on Mexican goods right now? Because that would be incorrect.

I think he was referring to the decision not to retaliate (for now, in Mexico's case).

[travis3000]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Huh?

It was Justin who popped the 51st state idea into Trump’s head, saying Canada couldn’t survive as a nation with the tariffs… Justin’s complete incompetence is why Canada is fighting for independence in the first place… his one grandiose doesn’t has fooled you.

Please tell me you don't believe that... Trump had the 51st state shit going on Truth Social and Twitter well before that meeting. Anything coming out of the Trump camp is pure propaganda.

[Doady]

There's no prouder Canadian than Pierre Poilievre, and if there's anyone with "positive vision" for Canada and allow us to celebrate the Canada that we love, it's him:

Pierre Poilievre celebrates the opening of the Caribbean Carnival’s Grand Parade by telling everyone how terrible Canada is

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by Doady

There's no prouder Canadian than Pierre Poilievre, and if there's anyone with "positive vision" for Canada and allow us to celebrate the Canada that we love, it's him:

Pierre Poilievre celebrates the opening of the Caribbean Carnival’s Grand Parade by telling everyone how terrible Canada is

Trumpian tactics peddling fake messaging… Poilievre didn’t say anything about how terrible Canada is, he said the terrible times Canada is going through, with skyrocketing housing, life costing more.

[theman23]

"Bring home the Canada we love" sounds like as positive message to me.

All of our problems from before the tariffs still exist and if anything are going to get worse with them in place, and it isn't unpatriotic to point that out. The Liberals may be able to ignore the issues for a moment, but that will eventually pass and the country will be worse off for it.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by trueviking

This is an honest question not meant as an attack. What specifically do you think the government has done to screw things up in the first place? What is screwed up because of what they did? I hear this a lot but I’m never sure what it actually means. How is the country in a bad position because of current government decisions.

Wait, you haven’t noticed skyrocketing homelessness, skyrocketing food bank use, ~0% rental vacancy rates, long lineups of desperate people applying for minimum wage McJobs…?

That’s all new-ish, it’s never been that bad. JT’s pet project (Scheme of Great Landed Gentry Enrichment.)

[Marty_Mcfly]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

I have a bit of a conundrum. I’ve had enough of the Liberals. They have made a lot of bad decisions that have put our country in a bad position. I really want to vote Conservative.

However, and this is especially true with the events of the past few months, all I know about Pierre’s plan to deal with the Trump problem is that he is going to be ‘not Trudeau’, and that he thinks Carney is Trudeau 2.0. Okay, we get it. He doesn’t like Trudeau… so how will he deal with the Trump problem? By being ‘not Trudeau’?

On the other hand, we have someone with extensive international financial experience who ho seems to have some strategy in mind, and some skills to bring to the table. But he is attached to the party that screwed things up in the first place. At this point it seems better than no plan, other than to be in continual attack dog mode, complaining about the evil carbon tax. I truly don’t know if he has anything more than that. So yeah, unremarkable and uninspiring are good descriptors for PP.

The CPC have a visibility and messaging problem right now; in a time of crisis all attention is directed (and rightfully so) at the government. We get to see and hear how the Liberals will deal with Trump, and we get to see it in action. There's no room left for opposition parties since they really have no power here, so why would we waste our time hearing from them?

Truthfully, the approach from Carney/Trudeau, and what Pierre said he will do regarding the USA is very similar. The problem is that no one is hearing Pierre. Sure, he's hold weekly rallies which are livestreamed, but the only people showing up to those rallies, and the only people watching his livestreams, are conservative supporters. Those aren't the people he needs to convince to vote for him.

This also perfectly plays into the Liberals hands; since swing voters aren't paying attention to Pierre right now, the Liberals get to mold the narrative around him to their liking. Say what you will about Pierre, whether you like him or not, whether you think he's a better or worse PM candidate than Carney, people trying to convince you that he will hand Canada over to Trump and lay down to him not only flies in the face of what he's saying at his rallies, but it's the kind of divisive, kind of dangerous rhetoric that this country doesn't need right now.

He does absolutely need to shore up his messaging though. He spends more time talking about the carbon tax than the real problems like the Trump tariffs. I do understand that being weeks away from a campaign that he needs to differentiate himself from the Liberals and provide a different vision for Canada; if he just agrees and copies the same tariff approach as the Liberals then voters may as well just vote Liberal. I'm not envious of the position he's in, but someone on his team has got to get through to him that the carbon tax is dead and it's time to pivot, or else they will find themselves in an absolute world of pain as the Liberals cruise to a majority win.

We're probably a week away from an election call so his visibility problem will very soon disappear as all eyes will be on him and Carney equally. But if the messaging can't get fixed in the same period of time then it'll be all for nothing.

[trueviking]

^ I honestly don’t think is about the messaging or whatever tariff response he would implement. Elections are fought and won on how people feel. It’s not about hearing some particular policy. In a crisis specifically it’s about who they trust to respond to whatever choppy waters are ahead.

Pierre has spent two years crafting a very specific persona and image. That was effective in the old world but it is suddenly not appropriate for the moment. They are now rolling out commercials with him standing in the middle of his rally crowd talking like a Prime Minister. But it sounds a bit artificial at this point because it’s not the image he has crafted since taking leadership. Fuck Trudeau was effective at farming rage but that rage in Canadians has now shifted to fear. He is left there trying desperately to conjure the rage again and has to start at square one to convince people he is the man to handle the fear. It’s a big ask because his image is pretty cast in stone and his resume doesn’t help.



Also.

“ people trying to convince you that he will hand Canada over to Trump and lay down to him not only flies in the face of what he's saying at his rallies, but it's the kind of divisive, kind of dangerous rhetoric that this country doesn't need right now.”

Really? Have you seen the devil image carney bashing commercials? They literally say that Carney will hand over Canada to Trump and then they modify a photo to make him look like Dracula washed in red. A bit rich to say Liberals are spreading dangerous rhetoric. Pierre has been doing nothing but that for three years and continues to do so. If he didn’t want people to equate him with Trump he shouldn’t have spent the last two years with slogans on his clothing, giving rhyming nicknames to his opponents and hanging out with truckers. He made his own bed because he thought that was a path to victory, but now he’s got to lie in it. That’s politics.

[trueviking]

Originally Posted by lio45

Wait, you haven’t noticed skyrocketing homelessness, skyrocketing food bank use, ~0% rental vacancy rates, long lineups of desperate people applying for minimum wage McJobs…?

That’s all new-ish, it’s never been that bad. JT’s pet project (Scheme of Great Landed Gentry Enrichment.)

I have noticed that the world is still dealing with the impacts of a global pandemic, yes.

I also know that in the five years before the pandemic Liberal policies significantly lowered poverty and homelessness rates. Although they have risen since the end of the pandemic, they are still below 2015 levels.

People are lining up for minimum wage jobs? Hadn’t heard that.

Being Liberal is funny. Conservatives all scream they are economy crushing communists and lefty’s all scream they do nothing but line the pockets of the aristocracy.

[casper]

Originally Posted by trueviking

^ I honestly don’t think is about the messaging or whatever tariff response he would implement. Elections are fought and won on how people feel. It’s not about hearing some particular policy. In a crisis specifically it’s about who they trust to respond to whatever choppy waters are ahead.

Pierre has spent two years crafting a very specific persona and image. That was effective in the old world but it is suddenly not appropriate for the moment. They are now rolling out commercials with him standing in the middle of his rally crowd talking like a Prime Minister. But it sounds a bit artificial at this point because it’s not the image he has crafted since taking leadership. Fuck Trudeau was effective at farming rage but that rage in Canadians has now shifted to fear. He is left there trying desperately to conjure the rage again and has to start at square one to convince people he is the man to handle the fear. It’s a big ask because his image is pretty cast in stone and his resume doesn’t help.



Also.

“ people trying to convince you that he will hand Canada over to Trump and lay down to him not only flies in the face of what he's saying at his rallies, but it's the kind of divisive, kind of dangerous rhetoric that this country doesn't need right now.”

Really? Have you seen the devil image carney bashing commercials? They literally say that Carney will hand over Canada to Trump and then they modify a photo to make him look like Dracula washed in red. A bit rich to say Liberals are spreading dangerous rhetoric. Pierre has been doing nothing but that for three years and continues to do so.

Just had a look at those adds. Wow. They are desperate if that is what the Conservatives are running with.

Compare this to Carney speaking through actions. Removes the carbon tax in the afternoon. Followed by a trip to Europe to work on expanding diversified trade.

I would agree Carney is not a great public speaker. That is ok maybe their story is he is a person of few words but of action. Focus on how he is getting things done.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Huh?

It was Justin who popped the 51st state idea into Trump’s head, saying Canada's economy couldn’t survive as a nation with the tariffs… Justin’s complete incompetence is why Canada is fighting for independence in the first place… his one grandiose doesn’t has fooled you.

That is just not true. How do you explain Trump's attacks on every other country, especially Greenland and the Panama Canal? How is Trudeau responsible for that?

Trump has probably wanted to emulate Putin or Hitler for a long time. Now he has surrounded himself with "yes men" who tell him what he wants to hear, not what is in the best interest of the United States. Sadly, you and others have bought into right wing propaganda, which is largely funded by Americans (Rebel News, Sun News Network, National Post, etc). To blame Trudeau for the current predicament we are in, and not Trump, is ridiculous.

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Trumpian tactics peddling fake messaging… Poilievre didn’t say anything about how terrible Canada is, he said the terrible times Canada is going through, with skyrocketing housing, life costing more.

Poilievre repeatedly has been saying "Canada is broken" for the last 2-3 years, which is essentially the same thing.