CHICAGO: ORD & MDW discussion

[twister244]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/airlines-airports/united-airlines-near-20-year-traffic-high-ohare




Love to see it.

Yep - I'm assuming UA has it's eye on the long-run with S1+S2+OGT that will open them up to more capacity here. They will get domestic expansion at DEN too, but ORD should be their main international hub.

[aaron38]

Originally Posted by ardecila

The old ATS station sits within the Runway Protection Zone and is considered a hazard to navigation for aircraft. It will eventually be torn down.

Originally Posted by k1052

It is odd that it's been there a good long while with the lot closed and no move to demolish it. Would have figured they'd needed to have dismantled it prior to the runway going into service.

That seems very strange. The station itself is only a bit higher than a tram itself. Are they going to move the tracks to ground level also? Get rid of the tram all together?

[twister244]

A few things I've noticed on the ORD front:
1 - There is still massive construction happening in the midfield area. Seems to be ongoing preparation, utilities, and paving of new aprons.
2 - Bids are now out for Sat 1 construction activities.
3 - Avianca is flying a seasonal route to Bogota out of T5 seasonally until the end of March
4 - The new parking ramp for T5 is complete.
4 - T5 continues beefing up the experience. Butcher and the Burger, Bar Siena, and Hampton Social are now open. In addition, LOT finally opened up their lounge for Star Alliance members the other day in T5. Simpleflying has a great article showing pics - https://simpleflying.com/lot-polish-airlines-1st-business-lounge-chicago/

[twister244]

Very interesting article came out today in Crains. It doesn't have news on the expansion, but it does highlight how poorly AA is doing compared to UA. Under the new regime, UA is hoping to 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 up six new gates per "use it or lose it" rules.

There's a graph in the article showing how flights/seats have changed from 2019. For UA, the number of flights is down 17% still, the actual number of seats is actually +2% from 2019.

While that may not sound all that interesting, it is when you look at AA.... They are down 28% on the flights from 2019.... and still down 25% on seats.

Yikes.

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/airlines...ampaign=Newsletter-BreakingNews-20250204

[left of center]

Interesting. I've read that American is refocusing on growing its "fortress hubs", such as Charlotte, Philadelphia and DFW, where American constitutes the majority of flights and thus has stronger pricing power. It has been purposely losing market share at more competitive hubs such as ORD and LAX where margins are smaller. Not sure if this is a strategy that American plans to continue. It's obviously more beneficial for Chicago to have American keep its hub status at ORD, since it will funnel more flights in and offer more competitive pricing for consumers.

[Kngkyle]

Scott Kirby (United CEO) has said in the past that one of his goals was to push American Airlines out of Chicago (this was when he was President, not CEO). Obviously that isn't something that happens overnight but it does seem to be incrementally happening...

[k1052]

AA retired too much of their long haul fleet during the pandemic and 787 production delays have not helped. Picking hubs to concentrate on is a necessity not a strategy.

[SIGSEGV]

Yes, AA is getting trounced right now.

[k1052]

Guess AA finally woke up to the fact that United is coming for their gates and is adding back routes.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2025/02/20/american-airlines-ohare-chicago/

After pullback, American Airlines says it will fly more out of O’Hare this year

The carrier will fly to nine new domestic and international cities from Chicago in 2025 and use larger planes, American announced Thursday. The service additions will mean American is scheduling 25% more seats out of Chicago this summer and 22% more flights than last year, according to the airline.

New cities American will fly to from Chicago this spring and summer include: Bismarck, North Dakota; Boise, Idaho; Colorado Springs, Colorado; Hyannis, Massachussetts; and Spokane, Washington. New international cities include Halifax, Madrid and Naples.
In the fall, American will begin flying from O’Hare to Honolulu, Hawaii.

[Steely Dan]

^ increasing seats by 25%????

That sure is an unorthodox way to de-hub an airport.

[left of center]

Great to hear! Can't overstate how important having both the United and American dual hub is for O'Hare and the metro's economy overall.

[Chicagoguy]

Cargo Giant CMA CGM To Open New Chicago O'Hare Hub With 5 Boeing 777Fs

“One part of the expansion program will be in Chicago, where CMA CGM AIR CARGO will create an air cargo hub. The Group will deploy five new Boeing 777F freighters, operated by American pilots, to strengthen US trade and connectivity and ensure the reliable transport of critical and time-sensitive goods.”

https://simpleflying.com/cargo-giant-cma-cgm-new-chicago-hub-boeing-777fs/

[nomarandlee]

A few weeks old...

https://www.nbcchicago.com/top-videos-ho...Wj7fgqsso6OnA_aem_8lmz5t4RKYakyCrSB7w7fA




O'Hare AirportFebruary 26, 2025 4:28 pm
New tunnel under construction at O'Hare Airport

Construction is underway for a new underground tunnel at Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport. NBC Chicago’s Kye Martin reports.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by Chicagoguy

Cargo Giant CMA CGM To Open New Chicago O'Hare Hub With 5 Boeing 777Fs

“One part of the expansion program will be in Chicago, where CMA CGM AIR CARGO will create an air cargo hub. The Group will deploy five new Boeing 777F freighters, operated by American pilots, to strengthen US trade and connectivity and ensure the reliable transport of critical and time-sensitive goods.”

https://simpleflying.com/cargo-giant-cma-cgm-new-chicago-hub-boeing-777fs/

This is great news. May not be a huge economic win since this is just more cargo planes coming into ORD, but it shows that ORD has the capacity to take on additional cargo traffic, or at least that's how I read into this. I do wonder how ORD ranks with respect to cargo traffic in the US. Given the runway modernization program has been complete for a few years now, we should be able to handle a 🞵🞵🞵🞵 ton of cargo traffic. Not sure if that's reflected in the data or not, or of if there has a been a noticeable trend at all.

Further, more cargo traffic will probably mean more business in the area to process and move this cargo.

[twister244]

Originally Posted by nomarandlee

A few weeks old...

Yeah, I saw this...... I had assumed this had been well underway for a year or two now. They have been working out beyond C in the midfield area for a long time now digging out there. According to the ORD 21 page, there was a bid out to fill the central detention basin in 2023, which ultimately got cancelled. The only explanation I can think of is the boring has taken way longer than originally expected due to engineering reasons? Maybe someone can shed light on why this is getting done now, and not a couple years ago......

[N830MH]

Are you sure they starting construction new satellite concourse? When it will be completed?

[twister244]

Originally Posted by N830MH

Are you sure they starting construction new satellite concourse? When it will be completed?

Pretty sure at this point. The city sold over $1b in bonds last Summer to get things off the ground..... There has been a large amount of construction over the past few years to prep the midfield area for the new satellites.... AND - If you look at the ORD21 bid page, there are a slew of bids either being reviewed now, or being advertised for the S1 construction - https://ord21.com/bids/Pages/default.aspx

Not sure about the exact time frame, as it will ultimately depend on when things finally get off the ground. However, I think it's safe to say we are FINALLY getting close to actual S1 work getting off the ground over the coming weeks, not some nebulous time in the future.

[twister244]

The official plans for gate reallocation are coming to light now.....

https://www.chicagobusiness.com/airlines...0&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20250409

Basically, in summary:

United to gain six gates.
American to lose four gates.
Delta is losing three in Terminal 5, but those are getting picked up by Southwest, which will not have three dedicated gates.
Air Canada / Alaska each lose a gate.

It remains to be seen where exactly these six new gates will be, and if UA will finally start to creep into Terminal 3.

Either way - AA has their work cut out over the next year to ensure they don't lose additional gates in the future. Also appears we are getting closer to the new satellite actually breaking ground. Several bids have been hitting the streets on the ORD page for the actual construction of the new concourse.

[pip]

wrong thread

[twister244]

I saw a Crains article, but the actual source on 2024 rankings is non-paywalled - https://aci.aero/2025/04/14/the-busiest-...lobal-uncertainty-and-hold-top-rankings/

ORD came in at #8 on the list compared to #9 last year for total number of passengers, but we rank #2 on aircraft movements......

You combine this with some recent news about ORD being one of the busiest airports in the world with respect to regional jets - It highlights just how much potential ORD has to rise in the ranks.

S1 + OGT will facilitate more widebody planes, while not adding a ton of new gates in counts, it adds a lot of potential passenger movements. This is why Dubai is #2 on the passenger list, but nowhere on the top 10 aircraft movement list. It really shows the extreme examples of less large capacity aircraft's impacts on passenger numbers versus a lot more smaller aircraft.