Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

From what I gather, PQ leader Paul St-Pierre Plamondon and Mark Carney have one thing in common (from their past).

They both at one time played goalie for the Oxford University hockey team in England.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

From what I gather, PQ leader Paul St-Pierre Plamondon and Mark Carney have one thing in common (from their past).

They both at one time played goalie for the Oxford University hockey team in England.

What is it with Quebec separatist leaders having attended Oxford University. Parizeau did too, didn't he?

Does Plamondon say "By Jove" a lot too???

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

What is it with Quebec separatist leaders having attended Oxford University. Parizeau did too, didn't he?

Does Plamondon say "By Jove" a lot too???

Parizeau was the London School of Economics. (Going by memory here.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Partially it's hypocrisy for sure but we can expect the team behind him to be a lot more "reflective" of Canada. Though it will likely vastly underestimate white rural men and especially women. Interesting if Carney brings in some new start candidates. Some Ministers who had given up are now talking about running again.

If the 10 point francophone lead some polls in Quebec show can hold there are all sorts of ridings in play. Might be worth trying if you are a small town Quebec mayor.

Yes, some of the polls are showing the federal Liberals in Quebec with their best numbers in around 20 years. Almost all of the analysts are at a loss as to why that is the case. These are definitely chickens that should not be counted before they hatch.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

Wisconsin borders Ontario. When did that happen?

About 200 million years ago.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

From what I gather, PQ leader Paul St-Pierre Plamondon and Mark Carney have one thing in common (from their past).

They both at one time played goalie for the Oxford University hockey team in England.

PSPP went to Oxford?? How is that? Don't you have universities in Canada?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes, some of the polls are showing the federal Liberals in Quebec with their best numbers in around 20 years. Almost all of the analysts are at a loss as to why that is the case.

It's frankly not difficult to guess. It's just "rallying 'round the flag". When the crisis is over, people will go back to where they were before the crisis, and the Liberal Party will be as unpopular as ever. I predict they'll win a resounding victory, and then become extremely unpopular in a 2-3 years when this crisis is over.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

PSPP went to Oxford?? How is that? Don't you have universities in Canada?

Yes of course. But it's common for the especially ambitious to go abroad for second and third cycle degrees.

PSPP studied in Quebec first, but also went to England and Denmark or Sweden? He speaks Danish in addition to French and English.

Jacques Parizeau studied in Quebec first but also pursued his education in France and England.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

It's frankly not difficult to guess. It's just "rallying 'round the flag". When the crisis is over, people will go back to where they were before the crisis, and the Liberal Party will be as unpopular as ever. I predict they'll win a resounding victory, and then become extremely unpopular in a 2-3 years when this crisis is over.

Of course but it's interesting that Quebecers are doing this (at least for the moment) by going to Carney a lot more than Poilievre, than ROCers are, who seem to be more split between the two.

I don't see any obvious reason for Quebecers to prefer one of them a lot more than the other.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

It's frankly not difficult to guess. It's just "rallying 'round the flag". When the crisis is over, people will go back to where they were before the crisis, and the Liberal Party will be as unpopular as ever. I predict they'll win a resounding victory, and then become extremely unpopular in a 2-3 years when this crisis is over.

That will happen no matter what party wins. Politics is a losing game.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

About 200 million years ago.

Wisconsin does not border Ontario.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes of course. But it's common for the especially ambitious to go abroad for second and third cycle degrees.

Why Oxford? (overhyped and over-expensive) Why not some top-notch school in France. Isn't he a Francophone? What's the message there? Good higher education can only be in English??

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Of course but it's interesting that Quebecers are doing this (at least for the moment) by going to Carney a lot more than Poilievre, than ROCers are, who seem to be more split between the two.

I don't see any obvious reason for Quebecers to prefer one of them a lot more than the other.

Aren't the Conservatives seen in Québec as basically anti-Québec and anti-French language? Much more so than the Liberals. So again it's not very surprising to me.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Why Oxford? (overhyped and over-expensive) Why not some top-notch school in France. Isn't he a Francophone? What's the message there? Good higher education can only be in English??

I think that for most people in the world, if you get accepted to Oxford (or Harvard), you go.

C'est la vie.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

That will happen no matter what party wins. Politics is a losing game.

Yeah, but the Liberals were very unpopular before this crisis, and it's just due to extraordinary circumstances that they're going to win the next election, so that means as soon as those extraordinary circumstances are over they'll immediately revert to super unpopular. It would have taken longer for the opposition to become unpopular if they had been elected.

Also, it's not true that politics is always a "losing game". In Bavaria the ruling party has been in power for 70 years or so. In Japan they also keep the same party in power for decades. If a party does a good job, there's no reason why they should be thrown out of office.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Aren't the Conservatives seen in Québec as basically anti-Québec and anti-French language? Much more so than the Liberals. So again it's not very surprising to me.

Yes, but the idea that the Liberals are more pro-francophone than the Conservatives is a bit of a nostalgic view. Poilievre speaks better French than Carney and bilingualism with the Liberals even if a bit better is still a façade. The Conservatives are also more about letting Quebec do its own thing than the Liberals. Not trying to make a pitch for Poilievre, just explaining what I see.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I think that for most people in the world, if you get accepted to Oxford (or Harvard), you go.

C'est la vie.

The question is why he APPLIED, not why he accepted to go after being admitted. For the leader of a sovereignist party it's a bit jarring...

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Yes, but the idea that the Liberals are more pro-francophone than the Conservatives is a bit of a nostalgic view. Poilievre speaks better French than Carney and bilingualism with the Liberals even if a bit better is still a façade. The Conservatives are also more about letting Quebec do its own thing than the Liberals. Not trying to make a pitch for Poilievre, just explaining what I see.

I think you're talking as a fluent English-speaker who follows the news in Anglo-Canada closely, which is not exactly the case of the majority of the Québécois.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

The question is why he APPLIED, not why he accepted to go after being admitted. For the leader of a sovereignist party it's a bit jarring...

Why would it be jarring? Being a sovereignist does not necessarily imprison one in Quebec.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Yeah, but the Liberals were very unpopular before this crisis, and it's just due to extraordinary circumstances that they're going to win the next election, so that means as soon as those extraordinary circumstances are over they'll immediately revert to super unpopular. It would have taken longer for the opposition to become unpopular if they had been elected.

Immigration cuts have already had an impact. Capping that and then returning to a pre-Trudeau rate solves a major problem for the Libs. Carney is also reversing other wedge issues, like the carbon tax. The impact of the economy, housing, and cost of living, in addition to whatever Trump throws at us, will depend on how Carney handles it. Plus so much of that will come down to luck and factors beyond his control.

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Also, it's not true that politics is always a "losing game". In Bavaria the ruling party has been in power for 70 years or so. In Japan they also keep the same party in power for decades. If a party does a good job, there's no reason why they should be thrown out of office.

Yes, but it’s seemingly universally true in Canadian federal politics, other than a lean towards the Libs as the more centrist ruling party.