Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

<a href="https://ibb.co/q36Hft9f"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/G4mZLKkL/IMG-1687.jpg" alt="IMG-1687" border="0"></a>


Oh Lord I know it’s gonna be a fight just to figure out how to post an image.



https://ibb.co/q36Hft9f

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Anyways, a quick google search of « Anglo-Saxon definition » gives me the result, backed by the Oxford dictionary, that the term means in North America « any white, English-speaking person ». I haven’t read all of NB’s posts but I’ll assume that is how he is using it. Is it entirely accurate ? Maybe not, but no reason to get offended by it like a little snowflake. Just like how we have the commonly used term « Caucasian » to refer to white people, which is partially incorrect because « Caucasian » includes middle eastern and North African in its definition.

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I only knew it because my dad grew up in Montreal… way back in the 60’s. I don’t think it’s used anymore in Montreal? From his stories as a kid in NDG, the Québécois, even adults, had much worse to say to him as an English speaking child. A lot of “maudite Anglais” and even getting rocks thrown at them on the way to school

At least Montreal has a great bilingual public education system… unlike NB, Canada’s only bilingual province.

My dad had the exact same experience growing up in Moncton, just vice versa

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by AverageMonctonEnjoyr

Anyways, a quick google search of « Anglo-Saxon definition » gives me the result, backed by the Oxford dictionary, that the term means in North America « any white, English-speaking person ». I haven’t read all of NB’s posts but I’ll assume that is how he is using it. Is it entirely accurate ? Maybe not, but no reason to get offended by it like a little snowflake. Just like how we have the commonly used term « Caucasian » to refer to white people, which is partially incorrect because « Caucasian » includes middle eastern and North African in its definition.

When you think about the real definition of "Caucasian", it only should apply to people from Georgia (former Georgian SSR), Armenia and Azerbaijan.

Doug Ford is not really a "Caucasian" at all.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by AverageMonctonEnjoyr

My dad had the exact same experience growing up in Moncton, just vice versa

When I was a kid in the 70s in Ontario for a time I went to a francophone elementary school that had a shared gym with a closely neighbouring anglophone school that had hallways leading to it from each school.

Both schools were JK-8 which was typical for Ontario at the time.

One day some of the older kids from the anglo school ambushed the principal from our francophone school in the parking lot and beat the crap out of him. He showed up at school the next day with facial injuries and his arm in a sling.

I didn't finish my elementary there though not because of the violence. My dad got a job in another part of the country and I actually went to English school for a number of years after that, as there were no French schools in the areas we moved to.

It's thanks to that that everyone on here gets to enjoy my beautiful English prose!

[New Brisavoine]

Doug Ford makes it on the front page of the Financial Times, not François Legault. That's quite telling. Québec is neither its own independent country, nor a leading voice in Canada. It's a bit sad. Condemned to be a non-entity inside Canada basically. (not even the French media, usually more concerned about Québec, have talked about any initiative taken by Québec in this crisis, not that I've seen)

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Doug Ford makes it on the front page of the Financial Times, not François Legault. That's quite telling. Québec is neither its own independent country, nor a leading voice in Canada. It's a bit sad. Condemned to be a non-entity inside Canada basically. (not even the French media, usually more concerned about Québec, have talked about any initiative taken by Québec in this crisis, not that I've seen)

Ontario does have the largest population of any province by a fair margin so that could be some of the reason. Also, Doug Ford wanted to speak directly to Americans through the media as well as many American politicians showing that Ontario alone is a huge market and is not some woke communist place like some MAGA people might suggest about Canada. Ford has been very present in the American and even some international media so that is also why something like the Financial Times is covering him.

While I'm not a fan of Ford, he is the right type of personality to talk to Americans. He's definitely not Trudeau and he knows what MAGA supporters are thinking as he is a populist politician. Ford lived in the US for about 20 years when running his family business DECO Labels so he has a good conversation starter when talking business.

I'm sure that François Legault is doing a lot behind the scenes. We may see more of him if things with tariffs continue. Imagine the power Hydro-Québec holds! He could raise electricity prices in a bunch of states immediately!

[Acajack]

It is also not surprising that a newspaper based in London is more in touch with Ontario than Quebec.

That said there is a brouhaha right now because the BBC referred to the "state" of Ontario.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Doug Ford makes it on the front page of the Financial Times, not François Legault. That's quite telling. Québec is neither its own independent country, nor a leading voice in Canada. It's a bit sad. Condemned to be a non-entity inside Canada basically. (not even the French media, usually more concerned about Québec, have talked about any initiative taken by Québec in this crisis, not that I've seen)

Of course you're going to assume some sort of cultural underpinning to a London-based business newspaper's focus piece. If you were an editor trying to draw people's attention to a country they don't think much about, do you go with Doug Ford's: “If they want to try to annihilate Ontario, I will do everything — including cut off their energy with a smile on my face,”

Or Francois Legault's: “We’re still legally looking at the feasibility,” Legault told reporters when asked about Ontario’s move. “I cannot answer that today, but we don’t exclude anything.”

Both premiers are planning similar responses, however one is a more reserved and calculating businessman, and the other a more boisterous political character who makes for better headlines.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It is also not surprising that a newspaper based in London is more in touch with Ontario than Quebec.

As I've said, not even the French media talk of Québec right now (whereas they've talked about Doug Ford, someone no French people had ever heard about before).

Here for example (notice how the French journalist is based in Montréal, which is not surprising, but it is the picture of Doug Ford that illustrates the article, not Legault's):

Comment le Canada entend riposter à l’offensive des menaces protectionnistes de Trump

Le Figaro
Par Ludovic Hirtzmann, Montréal
Publié le 20 janvier à 18h23



Le premier ministre de l’Ontario, Doug Ford.

Plusieurs ministres sont montés au créneau, promettant des mesures de rétorsions à la hauteur des attaques de Washington.

https://www.lefigaro.fr/conjoncture/comm...naces-protectionnistes-de-trump-20250120

Or here in Le Monde (a complete analysis article dedicate to him! when is the last time the Times of London, The Guardian, Telegraph, or Financial Times ever dedicated a full-length article to a premier of Québec??):

Doug Ford, un « Captain Canada » contre Donald Trump

Le Monde
6 mars 2025

Dans la guerre commerciale entre les Etats-Unis et le Canada, le premier ministre de l’Ontario – province la plus riche et peuplée du pays –, semble s’être imposé comme le chef de file de la riposte contre le président américain.

https://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/...de-contre-donald-trump_6576785_3234.html

[Acajack]

I am the first to complain that Canada is increasingly projecting an Anglo/multicultural image to the world that too often eschews the francophone element and our bilingual duality.

But I don’t think that this case is a great example of that.

Doug Ford has emerged as the lead guy on the US tariff issue, so it’s normal that he is getting more attention.

[Loco101]

Doug Ford is getting a lot of attention because he is trying to attract various media outlets. It seems as though the other premiers and PM are encouraging him to be a spokesperson for all of Canada because he is likely the best personality Americans can understand. Ontario is also the only province that borders states that voted for Trump and that have significant populations. (Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania) Plus, they are all swing states where Republican candidates will be in trouble if Trump creates chaos. So Ford can talk with governors, senators and members of congress of those states and tell them how Trump is helping nobody.

[Acajack]

Of our big provinces Ontario also has the most to lose potentially in this trade war.

[New Brisavoine]

So, you have an old, White, heterosexual, Anglo-Saxon, male guy as your new prime minister. Not very wokish and minority-inclusive all that...

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

So, you have an old, White, heterosexual, Anglo-Saxon, male guy as your new prime minister. Not very wokish and minority-inclusive all that...

When certain parties do it it’s ok.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

When certain parties do it it’s ok.

Partially it's hypocrisy for sure but we can expect the team behind him to be a lot more "reflective" of Canada. Though it will likely vastly underestimate white rural men and especially women. Interesting if Carney brings in some new start candidates. Some Ministers who had given up are now talking about running again.

If the 10 point francophone lead some polls in Quebec show can hold there are all sorts of ridings in play. Might be worth trying if you are a small town Quebec mayor.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

When certain parties do it it’s ok.

"Le camp du bien", as we call it here.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

"Le camp du bien", as we call it here.

Fais ce que je dis et non ce que je fais.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Doug Ford is getting a lot of attention because he is trying to attract various media outlets. It seems as though the other premiers and PM are encouraging him to be a spokesperson for all of Canada because he is likely the best personality Americans can understand. Ontario is also the only province that borders states that voted for Trump and that have significant populations. (Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania) Plus, they are all swing states where Republican candidates will be in trouble if Trump creates chaos. So Ford can talk with governors, senators and members of congress of those states and tell them how Trump is helping nobody.

Wisconsin borders Ontario. When did that happen?

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by Acajack

When certain parties do it it’s ok.

I guess Justin won't be rehashing his "lost opportunity" speech.