Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion II

[jollyburger]

Bus Automated Repositioning In-Yard Pilot

The enterprise is exploring bus repositioning in-yard using Level 4 technology to explore possible applications that the enterprise can take advantage of in improving performance and reduce cost in the yard on processes, more efficient use of scarce yard space and increasing worker safety by reducing the likelihood of costly accidents within the confines of the yard. This initial pilot is a small-scale test that would help inform the organization relating investments that need to be made in future yard upgrades and bus repositioning as well as skillsets that would need to be acquired to prepare the enterprise for the future. Learnings and outcomes from this pilot will be used as an input to future decisions that the enterprise will make in terms of technology and modernization in yard. The pilot test is targeted to be executed in Spring / Summer of 2025.

TransLink is seeking proposals from qualified Vendor experienced with doing similar pilots with other transit agencies.

https://service.ariba.com/Discovery.aw/109571029/aw?awh=r&awssk=Xrdp7YtO

White paper from WSP

The Automated Bus Yard (ABY) involves the
retrofit of existing buses, or the procurement
of ADS-equipped buses, to autonomously drive
within the confines of a bus depot. Autonomous
vehicles are still several years away from becoming
commonplace on city streets due to the complex and
unpredictable forces of traffic (pedestrian, cyclists,
other vehicles), and/or adverse weather impacts.
Thus, automating the bus yard — a controlled
environment with fewer unpredictable obstacles
— provides transit agencies a low-risk path to
capitalize on a multitude of benefits. While bus yards
often suffer from aging infrastructure and limited
space, there is still a sense of order where vehicles
are intended to safely drive and park. This creates
an operational design domain that is programmable
and therefore much safer to test and integrate an
autonomous bus fleet.

https://www.wsp.com/-/media/hubs/us/fact-sheets/bus-automation_white-paper_final.pdf

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by Lexus

Seems like these made in Poland. (Probably, in significant part, by Ukrainian hands). Wonder is these would actually have comfortable ride!

Can't be any worse than the New Flyer rattle boxes.

Ron.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

Can't be any worse than the New Flyer rattle boxes.

Ron.

Seems like doing manufacturing in the US might be a possibility if they want to do NA orders.

[mcj]

Seems like the only thing given to Translink in the Provincial Budget is being able to raise the parking tax rate from 24% to 29%. Guess we might see service cuts soon...

[GMD]

Originally Posted by mcj

Seems like the only thing given to Translink in the Provincial Budget is being about to raise the parking tax rate from 24% to 29%. Guess we might see service cuts soon...

I suspect we are seeing some of the joy of Federalism in action. With a federal election during the year, the provinces will hope that the Federal parties can be pressured into promising more funds for transit, so that they don't have to pay for it.

After the election, the Provincial government will have to make a decision as 2025 nears an end, taking into consideration whatever they get (or don't get) from the Feds.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by mcj

Seems like the only thing given to Translink in the Provincial Budget is being able to raise the parking tax rate from 24% to 29%. Guess we might see service cuts soon...

LOL, so they raise the parking tax yet they're going to send rebates to ICBC customers? Let's just cut the bureaucracy and leave the tax as is and cancel the rebates.

And if they're absolutely set on hosing people for parking to show how "green" they are, why not then cancel the ICBC rebate and put the budgeted $410 million towards transit?! Politicians.

As part of the 2025 B.C. Budget, the provincial government announced today that a $110 rebate will be provided to eligible drivers, with payments expected in April 2025.

The new provincial budget for the fiscal year sets aside $410 million for this rebate program, which will provide relief for drivers holding a Basic Insurance policy...

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/icbc-drivers-rebate-april-2025

[s211]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

Can't be any worse than the New Flyer rattle boxes.

Ron.

New Flyer does seem like the transit equivalent of American automakers.

[madog222]

Mark V trains will start testing during regular service hours, first train still on for entering service this spring.

https://buzzer.translink.ca/2025/03/testing-for-new-mark-v-train-underway/

[officedweller]

Note the reference to a new power substation under the Cordova Viaduct - mystery solved.
... but for what future expansion (aren't substations fairly locallized)?
Purple line under Hastings?

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Note the reference to a new power substation under the Cordova Viaduct - mystery solved.
... but for what future expansion (aren't substations fairly locallized)?
Purple line under Hastings?

The existing Waterfront substation is already in the area of the Cordova Viaduct, but I think has limited capacity and has been a source of security concerns in the past with track access. My guess is that they're looking to build a new substation and replace the existing one.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by dpogue

The existing Waterfront substation is already in the area of the Cordova Viaduct, but I think has limited capacity and has been a source of security concerns in the past with track access. My guess is that they're looking to build a new substation and replace the existing one.

Got it, thanks.
Plus I guess of the Waterfront Hub materializes, may it would have to be moved? (I don't know exactly where it is).

[jollyburger]

Previous power work they did at Waterfront Expo Line.

In 1986, the Waterfront skytrain station in downtown Vancouver was constructed as part of the Phase 1 Expo Line project. By 2021, the station and the electrical equipment were in need of replacement due to equipment life expectancy. The project aimed to resolve issues with the electrical system, including:

Equipment: Track heaters needed to be permanently connected.
Need for more power capacity: the existing 300/400 kVA ANN transformer was at its full capacity.
Reliability of breaker operation: Some equipment needed replacement to increase reliability.
Upcoming distribution updates: Alignment of station power with BC Hydro’s plans to update the distribution system from 12.47kV to 25 kV in downtown Vancouver.

https://ausenco.com/projects/translink-power-upgrade-of-the-waterfront-skytrain-station/

https://www.grahambuilds.com/waterfront-station-power-upgrade/

The Graham photos seem to show some area north of the guideway around the area of the Cordova viaducts.

[officedweller]

Nice find.
You can see the arch of the Dunsmuir tunnel in one pic.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by madog222

Mark V trains will start testing during regular service hours, first train still on for entering service this spring.

https://buzzer.translink.ca/2025/03/testing-for-new-mark-v-train-underway/

So what's the official Translink quoted ultimate capacity now? It's got to be significantly above 25 700 pphpd, which was the last number I'd seen. With all that standing room at 5 cars, it has to be close to 30 000 pphpd.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by logan5

So what's the official Translink quoted ultimate capacity now? It's got to be significantly above 25 700 pphpd, which was the last number I'd seen. With all that standing room at 5 cars, it has to be close to 30 000 pphpd.

Crush load of a Mark V train is quoated at 1,207, as per Daily Hive. Theoretically, at 90 second headways a 100% Mark V fleet would give 48,280 pphpd.

There was a chart I remember seeing showing the past and future evolution of capacity, I'll see if I can find it.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by madog222

Crush load of a Mark V train is quoated at 1,207, as per Daily Hive. Theoretically, at 90 second headways a 100% Mark V fleet would give 48,280 pphpd.

There was a chart I remember seeing showing the past and future evolution of capacity, I'll see if I can find it.

Was it from this document?

https://www.canadianconsultingengineer.com/awards/pdfs/2012/F8_ExpoLineUpgradeStrategyVancouver.pdf

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by madog222

Theoretically, at 90 second headways...

i thought 72 second headways could be done?

[madog222]

Scratch that calculation with crush load, regular capacity is 672 per Mark V train which gives 26,880 at 90s headways. The document jolly linked states 25,700 at 93s headways.

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Was it from this document?

https://www.canadianconsultingengineer.com/awards/pdfs/2012/F8_ExpoLineUpgradeStrategyVancouver.pdf

Exhibit 9 is, or is a version of, the diagram I was referring to. Keep in mind those numbers are based on Mark II cars, even per car the Mark V have higher capacity.

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

i thought 72 second headways could be done?

System is capable of 75s headways but is constrained from terminus station turnarounds. Ignoring that constraint, operating at 75s would not be practical as it leaves no room for delays.

[jollyburger]

This Surrey Skytrain document on ridership has some headway numbers if it's useful

https://surreylangleyskytrain.gov.bc.ca/app/uploads/sites/938/2023/11/appendix_d_ridership_memo.pdf

I wonder if station capacity (escalators etc) come into play at some point?

[cganuelas1995]

What's the theoretical maximum PPHPD of the Expo Line?