Canadian Skyline Thread III - Page 132

Wigs · #**2621** Posted **Feb 19, 2025, 6:04 PM**

It's so GTA-like for people to get riled up comparing Toronto suburbs.

Mississauga was the top dog. Brampton stole its crown for population. Vaughan has better access to downtown Toronto thanks to direct subway access.

Nouvellecosse · #**2622** Posted **Feb 19, 2025, 6:38 PM**

Yeah every suburb in Canada sucks to some degree unless it is old and partially planned/built prior due the automobile era. Vaughan Centre seems to be less interesting and have less sense of place (tho neither are strong in that regard), while Mississauga Centre has no rail rapid transit connection though it does have other transit options. If I had to live in one or the other, it would just depend on where I worked and what the commute time was for each as well as if there was a difference in housing quality, availability or cost. Beyond that, who cares. It's like arguing whether chips or chocolate bars are more nutritious. If you want nutrition, eat something other than junk food.

someone123 · #**2623** Posted **Feb 19, 2025, 6:52 PM**

I think part of the problem is that these are fake hubs created by arbitrary suburban municipalities. At the same time, this level of development is banned in a lot of the more central accessible parts of Toronto.

It is good that Vaughan has a subway stop but it's still 40+ mins from Union Station and over 20 stops away. That trip is not so convenient and maybe better served by long-distance services with fewer stops. Meanwhile St. Clair W, as an example of a station much closer in along that line, is still partly a detached housing area.

isaidso · #**2624** Posted **Feb 19, 2025, 10:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

It is good that Vaughan has a subway stop but it's still 40+ mins from Union Station and over 20 stops away.

Wait, people think these places are intensifying simply for the sake of providing housing?

The goal is the formation of a poly-centric metropolitan region so people will eventually have little need or desire to commute to the central city. There are 24 designated nodes (in addition to the main downtown cluster) scattered about the Greater Golden Horseshoe at various stages in their evolution. Most of these nodes, like Vaughan Metropolitan Centre, are early on in their development. When built out they will have housing, employment, entertainment, education, health care, everything all in their own node.

The problem is that it's not a given that they'll succeed. If they just build density without urbanizing it will be a colossal failure. Even if they do execute, it will take decades for places like Vaughan or Mississauga become anything more than a collection of high-rises.

Nouvellecosse · #**2625** Posted **Feb 19, 2025, 10:53 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by isaidso

Wait, people think these places are intensifying simply for the sake of providing housing?

The goal is the formation of a poly-centric metropolitan region so people will eventually have little need or desire to commute to the central city. There are 24 designated nodes (in addition to the main downtown cluster) scattered about the Greater Golden Horseshoe at various stages in their evolution. Most of these nodes, like Vaughan Metropolitan Centre, are early on in their development. When built out they will have housing, employment, entertainment, education, health care, everything all in their own node.

The problem is that it's not a given that they'll succeed. If they just build density without urbanizing it will be a colossal failure. Even if they do execute, it will take decades for places like Vaughan or Mississauga become anything more than a collection of high-rises.

Yeah that's really the main issue. Typically downtowns have employment as their foundation (offices and institutions like universities, courts, etc.) along with services like entertainment and retail. People tend to settle nearby to be close to work and the services. But we have people settling in these areas just because it's part of a high demand metro area and that location happens to permit high density residential construction.

But then people just settle there are part of being part of the wider metro area. Sure MCC has plenty of retail, but there's shopping malls all over the place so there's little that make that location special. And of course Vaughan has the subway, but that doesn't encourage people to treat the area as self-contained. If anything, it presents the main amenity as being the connection to somewhere else.

So really, the foundation needs to be the employment if the hope is for the area to be a self-contained hub. Yes employment residential and amenities are all needed but it's tough for them to arrive at the same time while competing with the rest of the metro area.

WhipperSnapper · #**2626** Posted **Feb 20, 2025, 5:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

I think part of the problem is that these are fake hubs created by arbitrary suburban municipalities. At the same time, this level of development is banned in a lot of the more central accessible parts of Toronto.

It is good that Vaughan has a subway stop but it's still 40+ mins from Union Station and over 20 stops away. That trip is not so convenient and maybe better served by long-distance services with fewer stops. Meanwhile St. Clair W, as an example of a station much closer in along that line, is still partly a detached housing area.

It's hardly arbitrary. The powerful Cortelucci Family owns a lot of land in Vaughan City Centre.

I think you're probably mistaken that Vaughan Metropolitan Centre demographics are heading downtown for work. As I have said a few times on the forum, Vaughan's greatest advantage over MCC is the subway to York University much like York students previously built up Yonge and Finch and UofT students built up Bay Street. It's just the current state of VMC is well behind the state of Mississauga City Centre and the timeline is blowing up as the market tanks.

We obsessed over low densities around subways stations. Capital transit investment hinging on capacities means transit will always suck. Likewise, 30 to 70 storey apartment clusters with some retail for mixed use status is a sucky living environment regardless in Concord or Oakwood Village

someone123 · #**2627** Posted **Feb 20, 2025, 5:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

I think you're probably mistaken that Vaughan Metropolitan Centre demographics are heading downtown for work.

No, I understand that there will be local demand along the routes and I know there are other destinations and York exists, etc. But I wonder how demand for these areas would change if there were more liberal zoning in other areas (really the bulk of land in the metro area) and there wasn't this push from suburban municipalities and of course developers and land owners as you describe. I see this pattern of "powerful" families owning large quantities of land around these areas as a negative. It is similar around the Vancouver suburban centres. They are monopolistically metered out to maximize profits without lowering housing prices and they have a certain blandness that comes from large scale development. I think that upzoning small parcels in the inner city and growing it incrementally will likely produce a better outcome in the long run.

I also wonder how these subway routes will scale in the future and if they were the best option. Hopefully there will be some way to provide express service. I don't think it is actually that great to have a polycentric metro area with gridlock and dozens of rapid transit stops between the major nodes.

someone123 · #**2628** Posted **Feb 20, 2025, 5:43 PM**

This ties in with high-speed rail. If there were a reliable long-term plan for high-speed rail, perhaps it would be possible to plan a major transportation node in Toronto outside of downtown that would have very efficient service; a train going 200 km/h+, not a subway that stops and starts 20 times, mostly running through pods of residential that could have just been packed together more densely.

Rico Rommheim · #**2629** Posted **Feb 21, 2025, 5:07 PM**

skyline montreal mont-royal by eva blue 09 by Montréal, on Flickr

Vantage · #**2630** Posted **Feb 22, 2025, 1:28 AM**

Metrotown Skyline from Highway 1 Pedestrian Overpass by me, on Flickr

Brizzy82 · #**2631** Posted **Mar 1, 2025, 6:53 PM**

Winnipeg

Source https://www.instagram.com/anthony_ur...94a3I3Z3czcQ==

905er · #**2632** Posted **Mar 2, 2025, 12:32 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brizzy82

Winnipeg

Source https://www.instagram.com/anthony_ur...94a3I3Z3czcQ==

Anthony's images and drone footage of Winnipeg is absolutely stunning!! Really showcases the city in the most flattering way!

Coldrsx · #**2633** Posted **Mar 2, 2025, 3:02 AM**

G.S MTL · #**2634** Posted **Mar 3, 2025, 3:46 PM**

https://youtu.be/-gcaBkJWTOg?si=UiIm_UKjzUjVbYih

You’re welcome ☺️

GeneralLea · #**2635** Posted **Mar 3, 2025, 5:25 PM**

Wow. Those are incredible, definitely reminded me a bit of NY on first glance.

zoomer · #**2636** Posted **Mar 3, 2025, 7:09 PM**

Brizzy - thanks for sharing the link to the Winnipeg drone guy on Instagram. He has lots of great videos, I just love city drone clips. Of course great Montreal video as well, the Biosphere lit up at night was probably the most spectacular shot.

On Saturday The Great Scaper brought me to a friend's place in the James Bay neighbourhood of Victoria (adjacent to downtown) and we were able to get some good photos of the area, across to Songhees and a bit of the downtown. Great view of the new Telus Ocean office building going up.

Victoria BC, March 1, 2025 - View from Orchard House by JohnnyJayEh, on Flickr