Heavy Rail, Commuter Rail, & Intercity Transportation

[madog222]

This would require significant investment on our side of the border, likely to include replacement of the New Westminster Bridge.

Washington state legislation calls for more, faster Amtrak Cascades service


Washington state lawmakers have introduced legislation seeking to significantly increase Amtrak Cascades service in the Portland, Ore.-Vancouver, British Columbia corridor, as well as cut travel times.

House Bill 1857 and its Senate companion, SB 5667, call for a minimum of 14 round trips daily between Seattle and Portland and five between Seattle and Vancouver, with travel times of 2 hours, 30 minutes for the Seattle-Portland trip and 2 hours, 45 minutes between Seattle and Vancouver. Under current schedules, there are six round trips daily between Seattle and Portland, with one-way travel times of 3 hours, 25 minutes, and two Seattle-Vancouver round trips, with travel times of 4 hours, 25 minutes.

From trains.com https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/...for-more-faster-amtrak-cascades-service/

[madog222]

Originally Posted by RedArbutus

I'm confused...this was announced in 2014? I swear I saw hydrogen-powered BC Transit busses scooting around Whistler as recently as last year.

Nope, those would be natural gas powered XN40s.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by madog222

Nope, those would be natural gas powered XN40s.

They had some during the Olympics but sold/converted them.

BC Transit is now taking bids on the buses and will either sell them off or have them converted to use diesel or other fuel. They have been in storage for several months and each has roughly 200,000 kilometres on the odometer.

In a written release, BC Transit said it's exploring various options for the hydrogen buses, and its bidding process closes on Dec. 19. It declined a request for an interview from CBC News.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-c...e-sold-off-converted-to-diesel-1.2861060

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

You're missing the point. The proponents for the Valley Line are suggesting a hydrogen powered train because they're trying to avoid the much greater expense that would be associated with adding overhead wire infrastructure. There are at least two problems with that idea. There is no source of green hydrogen in BC, and there's no 'spare' renewable electricity to make hydrogen. Until we generate excess non-carbon electricity that we can't sell off or store in batteries, there's not likely to be any green hydrogen.

Running trains on hydrogen also turns out to be difficult. Just like hydrogen buses didn't work out in Whistler, and hydrogen cars are a bust in California, hydrogen trains are proving to be so unreliable that they've been replaced with diesels in Germany.

Ah, in that case, those proponents would have to wait. In the meantime, electric trains would be a good proposition until the right kind of hydrogen technology comes a-knocking. I tried Alstom's new Hydrogen train when it was being tested in Charlevoix, Quebec. The technology is already here, but for it to be serviceable, it would take a couple more years I imagine. You never know: it may be ready in no time, and perhaps those proponents wouldn't have to wait so long after all. Alstom would need to invest in how to source the right type of Hydrogen as well.

Canada's first hydrogen train is taking passengers
https://www.cbc.ca/news/science/hydrogen-train-quebec-city-1.6888891

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Yes, but until clean hydrogen actually does replace what we've got now, hydrogen is a dirty fuel. It's a total fraud to claim that hydrogen is "green" as long as it actually isn't.

You never know: between now and when there is actually enough funding to build a commuter railway, the technology could be here. There was a time when no one would imagine a battery can power a car, or truck for so many hours and kilometers. However, agree that in the meantime a reliable technology using electric railway should be in the works for the new commuter train system in the Fraser Valley.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

"Imagine a train that could only run as fast as a bike!" ... said no majority of commuters ever.

If you mean a Grand Prix bike, I agree!

FYI a modern commuter tram/light rail can go faster than a bus on its own dedicated ROW.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by RedArbutus

I'm confused...this was announced in 2014? I swear I saw hydrogen-powered BC Transit busses scooting around Whistler as recently as last year.

The hydrogen buses were part of the BC Hydrogen Highway initiative, which essentially went belly-up a decade ago.

They were touting hydrogen as a "clean" fuel back then too, but it's just as dirty (i.e., carbon-intensive in its production) now as it was then.

[ssiguy]

After the raking over the coals that I received about Vancouver needing true regional rail and not endless SkyTrain expansions, I'm surprised this thread is still going. By the flack I took I just assumed that nearly all of you thought it was not a conversation worth having......case closed.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by RedArbutus

I'm confused...this was announced in 2014? I swear I saw hydrogen-powered BC Transit busses scooting around Whistler as recently as last year.

I think they ended up getting converted to CNG.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Vin

- snip -

No, Tour de France - any bike there will undoubtedly beat a train clocking 20-30 kph. The R3 does it every day.

In other words, a route that’s straight and direct and everything the interurban isn’t.

Originally Posted by ssiguy

... By the flack I took I just assumed that nearly all of you thought it was not a conversation worth having......case closed.

You are correct. It’s the occasional troll digging it up over and over again.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

After the raking over the coals that I received about Vancouver needing true regional rail and not endless SkyTrain expansions, I'm surprised this thread is still going. By the flack I took I just assumed that nearly all of you thought it was not a conversation worth having......case closed.

You got flack for saying if we just waved money around we'd be able to buy up all the existing rail corridors and turn them into regional rail lines. What people are talking about here are other ideas for connecting the region.

[officedweller]

Amtrak trains between Vancouver and Oregon taken out of service temporarily, effective immediately

“Amtrak has determined its fleet of Horizon trainsets will immediately be taken out of service due to identified concerns with this aging equipment,” the service announced this week.

“A total of 70 passenger cars across the country are affected, including 26 cars on the Amtrak Cascades route.”
...
New trainsets will be coming in 2026.

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2025/03/30/train-vancouver-to-oregon-out-of-service-temporarily/

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Amtrak trains between Vancouver and Oregon taken out of service temporarily, effective immediately

Wow.

New trainsets will be coming in 2026.

Let's hope that Elon Musk doesn't set his sights on Amtrak, otherwise it might be the end of the service altogether. The fact that the CEO, Stephen Gardner, resigned a couple of weeks ago is a bit ominous. Trump's antics have substantially reduced the number of cross-border travelers, and I can just see them using that as an excuse. Create the problem and then use it to justify the action.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Wow.

Let's hope that Elon Musk doesn't set his sights on Amtrak, otherwise it might be the end of the service altogether. The fact that the CEO, Stephen Gardner, resigned a couple of weeks ago is a bit ominous. Trump's antics have substantially reduced the number of cross-border travelers, and I can just see them using that as an excuse. Create the problem and then use it to justify the action.

But the route only makes sense if there's a lot of economic (business/tourism) activity to sustain it. Amtrack at best is a niche service (because of the scheduling/delays/travel time). Throw in the fact a lot of Amtrack is just a pork & barrel service that requires either US state or federal politicians to make it work.

Corrosion discovered on Amtrak’s aging Horizon-class railcars caused the trouble. The rail company immediately removed all 70 of its Horizon train cars from the fleet nationwide, including 26 used on the Amtrak Cascades line.

“Amtrak is determining how to replace the grounded Horizon trains by redistributing other trains in its national fleet,” said Washington State Department of Transportation rail division spokesperson Janet Matkin via email Wednesday. “Amtrak will notify the states of Washington and Oregon as soon as a plan is in place to move replacement trains to the Pacific Northwest.”

The Horizon train cars were manufactured more than 35 years ago by Bombardier Transportation at a now-closed factory in Vermont. They have an aluminum body bolted to a steel undercarriage. Unhappy rail fans active in the Amtrak Cascades Facebook group said that corrosion was a foreseeable risk for the Horizon cars due to electrolysis where the aluminum comes in contact with steel.

https://www.oregonlive.com/business/2025...-stalls-effort-to-rebuild-ridership.html

Five Amfleet cars en route to the Northwest were being deadheaded in front of the regular consist of the westbound Empire Builder that departed from Chicago today (March 29, 2025). A single Amfleet car had been in the consist of the Builder on Friday, March 28. Many of the cars are being reallocated from Northeast Corridor service; four Amfleet cars arrived in Chicago earlier today on the Lake Shore Limited.

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/...ffort-to-cover-for-loss-of-horizon-cars/

[officedweller]

Okay, that was fast.

Amtrak to resume train service out of Vancouver as replacement cars arrive
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/amtrak-resume-train-service-vancouver-replacement

[jollyburger]

One of the Amtrak trains on that line got impaled by a tree last November too.

The train involved is one of two Talgo Series 8 trainsets owned by the state of Oregon. Older Talgo Series VI trains owned by Amtrak and Washington state were removed from service in 2019 in reaction to findings regarding a fatal 2017 derailment involving one of the trains [see “WSDOT prepares to remove Talgo Series 6 …,” Trains News Wire, May 24, 2019].

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/...t-damage-after-cascades-train-hits-tree/

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Not much point running passenger rail down a freeway median if that's not where the stations are going to be. Either most of the stations are in the median, which makes them unpleasant and not terribly useful, or most of them are where people actually need to get to, which means the rail isn't in the median.

I moved this here as it seems more appropriate.

If we were to build a rail line - where would it start / end and where would we have stations? I'm guessing it would be more like WCE than Skytrain, so it wouldn't have that many stations. Also is there enough space in the median for two rail tracks (I vaguely rem a thread about that on here).

[Migrant_Coconut]

The CN route doesn't really connect to anything but Chilliwack, the interurban route is mostly a joke, and most of everything else is private land, so by process of elimination it has to be on or near the TCH's right of way for the most part. Elevated stations with overpasses could mitigate most of the connectivity problems.

I'd suggest Chilliwack-Nowell, Abbotsford-McCallum, Abbotsford-Highstreet, Gloucester-272nd (RapidBus to Aldergrove), Trinity Western (RapidBus to Langley) and Carvolth at or above grade, and 168th, Guildford and Surrey Centre below grade. Not sure if a full detour to Aldergrove would be worth the slowdown or extra cost... and this all assumes that there's actual funding for both Valley Rail and SkyTrain expansion at the same time.

[mcj]

Posted in the other thread, but the commute back from the Abbotsford Canucks game was brutal, took nearly an hour to even leave the arena area.

I'd say McCallum Road makes sense as an Abbotsford station (and terminus of Phase 1). A station at Mt Lehman Road would make sense, and have bus service from this station through Aldergrove and connect with Langley Centre Skytrain station. After that nothing in Langley really justifies a station until Calvorth Exchange. Then either a Terminus in Surrey Central or Lougheed Town Centre with a station somewhere in Guildford along the way. Lougheed would give an option for an eventual extension into Vancouver, but Surrey would keep costs lower.

Overall the Mountain Valley Express plans make the most sense, but that tunnel from Surrey Central to Lougheed would be expensive. Perhaps get Surrey to Abbotsford running as a cheap phase 1 first, we could actually do that about as fast as we can do this highway expansion (and the train could probably be cheaper too if we just went with a small fleet of DMUs and fairly simple stations).

[Vin]

Originally Posted by madog222

This would require significant investment on our side of the border, likely to include replacement of the New Westminster Bridge.


From trains.com https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/...for-more-faster-amtrak-cascades-service/

Setting up the foundations to rejoin the confederation and British Commonwealth?

That's how Canada enticed Vancouver Island in the first place, but has now taken away their basic rail service.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by mcj

Overall the Mountain Valley Express plans make the most sense, but that tunnel from Surrey Central to Lougheed would be expensive. Perhaps get Surrey to Abbotsford running as a cheap phase 1 first, we could actually do that about as fast as we can do this highway expansion (and the train could probably be cheaper too if we just went with a small fleet of DMUs and fairly simple stations).

I looked at their site out of curiosity and it's heavily in fantasy territory (image link) if they hope to get all that built in the next 100 years. Parts of it look to mirror WCE and Skytrain - they'd have better luck getting anything built if they had it as a 'last mile' that connects with the Skytrain.

Also any lines that connect with the ferries are going to have limited frequency, which is likely to kill those particular lines - just stick double decker buses on them and be done with it.

The line between Surrey Central and Abbotsford (and possibly Chilliwack) is the only one I can see making any kind of sense. They should concentrate on that one and then they might stand a chance of getting something built.