Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion II

[Lexus]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

This?





https://cptdb.ca/wiki/index.php/Coast_Mo...ial_-_Broadway_Station_/_UBC_(B-Line)%27

That's exactly why I oppose UBC X. There is simply not enough ridership. They should really focus on Purple line.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by Lexus

That's exactly why I oppose UBC X. There is simply not enough ridership. They should really focus on Purple line.

Unless they turn UBC into a university city, maybe call it UBCity

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Unless they turn UBC into a university city, maybe call it UBCity

Google tells me there are 72000 students there, plus staff. That's not enough?

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Google tells me there are 72000 students there, plus staff. That's not enough?

With a projected 24 000 residents at Jericho, that's close to 100 000 potential riders from just two stops. As much as I would like to have SkyTrain over here, those numbers are almost half of the population of the entire North Shore.

[Lexus]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

With a projected 24 000 residents at Jericho, that's close to 100 000 potential riders from just two stops. As much as I would like to have SkyTrain over here, those numbers are almost half of the population of the entire North Shore.

Jericho could be another 50 years before it’s completed, it hasn’t even started yet in terms of shovels in the ground. UBC means seasonal riders, resulting in 1/3 of a year in a very low Rider ship, and the rest of the year the ridership will be subsidized with U-passes. That’s a bad investment.

[jollyburger]

There's a UBC extension thread.

[ilikeredheads]

You're right. UBC is a sparsely populated area with only students. It provides zero employment and new apartments are not popping up left and right. Totally bad investment to extend skytrain to such a barren wasteland.


/s

[madog222]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

Unless they turn UBC into a university city, maybe call it UBCity

Already done, it’s called Wesbrook Village.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Lexus

That's exactly why I oppose UBC X. There is simply not enough ridership. They should really focus on Purple line.

And the reason for the cancellation is that the ridership for the corridor is too high...

Not many people want to stand for the full 45min non-stop service. If there is no seat left in the non-stop bus, people rather grab a seat for the next regular 99 service and ride it end to end. If no one want to stand, the bus will have to leave with standing room available. Filling up the regular 99 bus by UBC students who avoid standing on the non-stop bus will cause pass-up in the western half of the route. If they downgrade them to a regular B-Line bus, they could cram more people in to fill the available standing space.

[Migrant_Coconut]

2023's TransLink bus stats.

Routes with highest annual boardings:

• 99; 11,304,971
• R4; 8,843,233
• 49; 8,474,435
• 319; 6,832,902
• 25; 6,644,351

Even once the Arbutus extension takes half its ridership, the 99 will still be at least the 5th busiest bus in Metro Vancouver.

And it's not just the 99, it's also the 4, 14, 44, 25, 33, 49 and R4. Four of our five busiest lines go to UBC. Four of our ten most overcrowded lines go to UBC. Building this one first frees up a ton of vehicles/drivers/service hours/etc which the Purple Line wouldn't (at least not on the same order of magnitude).

[Lexus]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

2023's TransLink bus stats.


Even once the Arbutus extension takes half its ridership, the 99 will still be at least the 5th busiest bus in Metro Vancouver.

And it's not just the 99, it's also the 4, 14, 44, 25, 33, 49 and R4. Four of our five busiest lines go to UBC. Four of our ten most overcrowded lines go to UBC. Building this one first frees up a ton of vehicles/drivers/service hours/etc which the Purple Line wouldn't (at least not on the same order of magnitude).

Those are boarding stats. It doesn’t mean they all get off at UBC. Once extension is open at Arbutus things will look dramatically different. Especially for 99.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Lexus

Those are boarding stats. It doesn’t mean they all get off at UBC. Once extension is open at Arbutus things will look dramatically different. Especially for 99.

And why are the boarding stats so high for those four specific lines that all end at UBC? The 25 should be just another humdrum feeder line; instead, the eastbound buses are crowded before they even reach Cambie, and the westbound ones are still crowded after, and it's sure as sh*t not because of Dunbar or Shaughnessy. Ditto the 49, and to a lesser extent, the R4.

Things'll definitely look different - now you'll have half the 4/14/44/25/33 passengers switching to the SkyTrain and lining up at the Arbutus loop for a 99 straight to UBC.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

And why are the boarding stats so high for those four specific lines that all end at UBC?

The hospital district attracts a lot of ridership, although that's not so relevant for the 25 and 33.

[jollyburger]

I wouldn't discount the fact that the Broadway Plan would extend even further west with a UBCx. Not sure how the economics will work if they have to do land assemblies of SFH lots versus the widespread walkup apartments in the current plan area.

[logan5]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

And why are the boarding stats so high for those four specific lines that all end at UBC? The 25 should be just another humdrum feeder line; instead, the eastbound buses are crowded before they even reach Cambie, and the westbound ones are still crowded after, and it's sure as sh*t not because of Dunbar or Shaughnessy. Ditto the 49, and to a lesser extent, the R4.

Things'll definitely look different - now you'll have half the 4/14/44/25/33 passengers switching to the SkyTrain and lining up at the Arbutus loop for a 99 straight to UBC.

Another factor is route length. The 25 and 49 are almost twice the length of north south routes like the 3 and 6 (Main and Fraser). More stops equals more boardings. The 25 also has stops at Nanaimo Skytrain and King Edward Skytrain stations. That will really pump up boardings, outside of just UBC. The 49th also serves Langara and has a stop at 49th Ave station (Canada Line). The R4 also has a lot of passengers boarding at Oakridge Station, mid route, and is a longer route than the north south routes, though less stops, but hits more major intersections.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I wouldn't discount the fact that the Broadway Plan would extend even further west with a UBCx...

On top of that, the existing Broadway Plan and the Arbutus extension will most likely supply even more demand for travel to UBC. Even aside from the transit demand, extending the line would extend the land that falls under the province's new guidelines for density. It makes it that much easier to build up the city compared to the present day.

[Stainer]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Google tells me there are 72000 students there, plus staff. That's not enough?

You can't assume that all 72000 students would take the train.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by Stainer

You can't assume that all 72000 students would take the train.

No one's assuming that, the same way we're not assuming that all 220 000+ North Shore residents will use a potential SkyTrain line when we make the case for that expansion.

[Migrant_Coconut]

There's also how a SkyTrain makes it easier to get around without a car, so there'll also be thousands of West Side ex-drivers boosting ridership.

Originally Posted by logan5

Another factor is route length. The 25 and 49 are almost twice the length of north south routes like the 3 and 6 (Main and Fraser). More stops equals more boardings. The 25 also has stops at Nanaimo Skytrain and King Edward Skytrain stations. That will really pump up boardings, outside of just UBC. The 49th also serves Langara and has a stop at 49th Ave station (Canada Line). The R4 also has a lot of passengers boarding at Oakridge Station, mid route, and is a longer route than the north south routes, though less stops, but hits more major intersections.

And I would agree, if not for how the R4 and 49 are also 3rd and 6th for boardings per revenue hour (i.e. even after adjusting for length, they're just really busy). And again, both still have fairly heavy ridership even west of Oakridge/Langara and the Canada Line.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

There's also how a SkyTrain makes it easier to get around without a car, so there'll also be thousands of West Side ex-drivers boosting ridership.

Exactly. I'm curious to see how the parking situation changes at VGH after the Arbutus extension comes in. Right now the parkade routinely fills up in the morning.