High Speed Rail in Canada

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Assuming sanity returns to the US, funding the Canadian portion of a Vancouver-Seattle-Portland HSR would be a no-brainer.

Personally, I always felt that twinning the TCH through the Rockies was more of a safety issue than an economic one. The route isn't congested. I would definitely improve the design in dangerous areas to a twinned highway with a protective median, but twinning the hundreds of kilometers of two-lane sections of Highway 1 between Kamloops and Field isn't super high on my priority list.

One BC highway idea I have never seen any discussion about is upgrading the Loughheed highway to a full freeway eastward from the Mary Hill Bypass to past Mission, and then connecting it with a bridge over the Fraser near Chilliwack. I'd also upgrade the Abbotsford-Mission highway to a full freeway. Unlike Highway 1 in the interior, Highway 1 in the Fraser Valley is congested. It also adds some redundancy and serves north-of-the-Fraser communities. From a security standpoint, I've always thought that Hwy 1 dips very close to the American border near Abbotsford. Now that we have to think defensively, it is a vulnerable chokepoint and if the Americans seized it, Vancouver and the Pacific coast would be cut off from the rest of Canada except via the existing Lougheed highway or the Sea-to-Sky/Hwy 99 through Pemberton, both of which are tiny in comparison.

[Innsertnamehere]

In vancouver the bigger missing connection to me has always been a white rock - Highway 1 freeway connection, there is no direct freeway connection from the US to areas north and east of Vancouver.

Risk of US invasion is such a small probability (even now) that it shouldn't be a consideration. By the time we built a highway like that, Trump will be dead / no longer president and US relations will return more or less to normal.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Personally, I always felt that twinning the TCH through the Rockies was more of a safety issue than an economic one. The route isn't congested. I would definitely improve the design in dangerous areas to a twinned highway with a protective median, but twinning the hundreds of kilometers of two-lane sections of Highway 1 between Kamloops and Field isn't super high on my priority list.

One BC highway idea I have never seen any discussion about is upgrading the Loughheed highway to a full freeway eastward from the Mary Hill Bypass to past Mission, and then connecting it with a bridge over the Fraser near Chilliwack. I'd also upgrade the Abbotsford-Mission highway to a full freeway. Unlike Highway 1 in the interior, Highway 1 in the Fraser Valley is congested. It also adds some redundancy and serves north-of-the-Fraser communities. From a security standpoint, I've always thought that Hwy 1 dips very close to the American border near Abbotsford. Now that we have to think defensively, it is a vulnerable chokepoint and if the Americans seized it, Vancouver and the Pacific coast would be cut off from the rest of Canada except via the existing Lougheed highway or the Sea-to-Sky/Hwy 99 through Pemberton, both of which are tiny in comparison.

You raise some good points about the vulnerabilities of Canadian infrastructure where there are too many single points of failure. We saw it in 2016 when the new Nipigon River Bridge failed; cutting off Western Canada and NW Ontario from the rest of the country by road with the only option going through the US. Redundancy is need in our road system. And remember Vancouver was cut off by rail and road from the rest of the country in November 2021 due to weather.

If the US was to ever invade Canada, don't think they would be coming through the Fraser Valley. Likely it would be troops out of Fort Drum, NY heading north to Ottawa.

[Rico Rommheim]

I'm looking forward to see who the ultimate solution will be for the Montreal situation. A new tunnel under the mountain? A widening of the MRT?

[Nouvellecosse]

I don't think a US invasion will have much relevance to road or rail infrastructure because they'd just bomb any strategic connections before any ground offensive even began. And it would take all of an extra 10 minutes to bomb two bridges instead of one. The only option would be to develop a nuclear arsenal as a deterrence measure. Otherwise we'd have less chance than Ukraine would've had without any US support.

[elly63]

Trump will be in the ground long before any shovels are. Not being a naysayer as I'd love to see this come to fruition. Both parts

[elly63]

I'm not up on the reading. Is there an example in the world they are looking to replicate. Isn't one of the consortium members a French company?

I'd just like to see a video to get in mind what might be close to what we have in mind. Or is it too early and we nothing tangible yet.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by elly63

I'm not up on the reading. Is there an example in the world they are looking to replicate. Isn't one of the consortium members a French company?

I'd just like to see a video to get in mind what might be close to what we have in mind. Or is it too early and we nothing tangible yet.

This is a contract to design HSR. They have a notional list of communities to be served. But they still have to do detailed design on routing, stations, potential rolling stock, etc. Any video they produce now would just be useless fluff. When they apply for construction funding in 2029 that's when we'll get more details.

[Urban_Sky]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

This is a contract to design HSR. They have a notional list of communities to be served. But they still have to do detailed design on routing, stations, potential rolling stock, etc. Any video they produce now would just be useless fluff. When they apply for construction funding in 2029 that's when we'll get more details.

Indeed, any details provided at this point would be taken as official confirmation and almost impossible to walk away from if priorities (or data) change. Granular details on routes, stations and frequencies will only be known once the project partners and investors agree on a project scope - and that won’t happen until the end of the “Co-Development Phase”, so in 5+ years’ and at least 2 general elections’ time…

[samne]

This is basically $4 billion paid to consultants for a detailed design. As much as I’d like to see it I can guarantee this will not get built due to actual cost of construction and land attainment.

Imagine what can actually get built in terms of public transit for that amount of money at local levels.

[elly63]

Totally ill informed question on this topic. Why a stop in Peterborough? Is there a large populace around that area?

• Video Link

[MolsonExport]

I could see Peterborough growing at a rapid clip in the decades to come. It is just outside of the GTA, which has little space left to develop.

[elly63]

I wonder if the speed would be scalable. The French, with a modified TGV and track got up to 574.8 kmh. I know we are looking at 300 kmh what would it take to get it to 400 kmh? Could we follow the French technology from 2007 that got them the highest speed? I have no idea, just wondering why we wouldn't follow their work from the 2007 tests for a higher speed.

[elly63]

Another naive question to anyone who has been on one. How are they policed? If they are affordable any old scumbag could stir up poop, is there a police presence?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by samne

This is basically $4 billion paid to consultants for a detailed design. As much as I’d like to see it I can guarantee this will not get built due to actual cost of construction and land attainment.

Part of this phase is coming up with a P3 financing plan. That's why CDPQ is part of the consortium. And part of it is to start assembling land they might need along the route they choose.

Originally Posted by samne

Imagine what can actually get built in terms of public transit for that amount of money at local levels.

Not much. And certainly not anything that will do much for the regional or national economy. Ottawa's Stage 3 LRT alone is coming in $6B. And that's to basically take a tram in two branches across mostly Greenbelt to two bedroom suburbs.

Either way, this is the kind of transport the feds should actually be funding. Instead of local transit that benefits nobody but locals in a city.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by elly63

Another naive question to anyone who has been on one. How are they policed? If they are affordable any old scumbag could stir up poop, is there a police presence?

Security to platform areas or whole stations in some cases, has airport style security. If you think of HSR more like a tiny airport terminal, it'll make more sense. That's what they are like, with giant parking structures, car rental counters, transit connections, and sometimes shopping arcades. And they are protected just like one would an airport.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I could see Peterborough growing at a rapid clip in the decades to come. It is just outside of the GTA, which has little space left to develop.

Peterborough and Trois Rivières are going to be the most disproportionate beneficiaries. Depends on how smart local politicians are though. And there's already evidence some don't get it. Peterborough's mayor called for it to be placed out of town. Which is his prerogative. But he clearly doesn't understand how a 40 min connection to Toronto and 1.5 hr connection to Ottawa with hourly or better frequencies would massively transform the economy and population of his city. A lot of them seem to just think this is VIA but slightly faster. And think it'll just be some yuppy and hippy student service. They have no clue.

[theman23]

Not in Japan...

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Peterborough and Trois Rivières are going to be the most disproportionate beneficiaries. Depends on how smart local politicians are though. And there's already evidence some don't get it. Peterborough's mayor called for it to be placed out of town. Which is his prerogative. But he clearly doesn't understand how a 40 min connection to Toronto and 1.5 hr connection to Ottawa with hourly or better frequencies would massively transform the economy and population of his city. A lot of them seem to just think this is VIA but slightly faster. And think it'll just be some yuppy and hippy student service. They have no clue.

That's kind of shocking to be honest though that will save the rest of us a lot of money. Can make it a few times a day stop. Eventually build TOD which will develop a completely new city around the station and the rest of the city can pretend for awhile they are safe from the big city.

[elly63]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Security to platform areas or whole stations in some cases, has airport style security. If you think of HSR more like a tiny airport terminal, it'll make more sense. That's what they are like, with giant parking structures, car rental counters, transit connections, and sometimes shopping arcades. And they are protected just like one would an airport.

I get that, I meant on the train. An airplane has relatively expensive fares and despite the numerous YT clips usually not scummy passengers. If rail fares are cheaper with a lower level of clientele on the train, what policing if any is on the train.

It reminds me of that old joke about cheaper air fares

Scummy guy to fellow passenger "Are you going to eat that?" Other passenger "Shouldn't you be on a bus"

As I think about it, I suppose there isn't any policing on a Via train? I guess I'm wondering what would happen with a group of unruly passengers but I suppose they could alert the station ahead and have them arrested. I'm just having British hooligan visions.