Atlantic Canada airport thread

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

With the Trump tariff shock and general opposition to travel to the united states, Canada needs to get serious with the Cruise lines and make it possible for people to board cruises in Halifax and Saint John.

Halifax is well set up to be a home port for cruise lines, because it already has a great airport. PEI has been improving their airport, and has serious tourism clout. Saint John, NB, however, has a below average airport with below average connections, despite having exceptional cruise ship facilities.

The Government of New Brunswick and Government of Canada should be looking to attract some trans Atlantic routes by offering subsidies to airlines willing to expand into to the NB market. Flight subsidies are a realistic and reliable short term approach to bolster NB tourism and incentivize New Brunswickers to take European and Canadian vacations instead of American vacations. NB's airports need to have better flight options for Saint John to become a viable home port for cruise ships, along with better bus connections to connect them with Port Saint John's cruise ship terminals.

Canadians shouldn't have to fly to Florida or New York to take a cruise. People from Ontario and Quebec should be able to fly to Saint John and Halifax to board cruises without having to leave Canada, or fly to Vancouver.

[sailor734]

Not sure that would be practical. AFAIK something like 80% of the cruise ship passengers in Canada are American. From what I've read the overwhelming majority of them live within a few hours drive of the embarkation port and drive to the ship.

[Pugsley]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Not sure that would be practical. AFAIK something like 80% of the cruise ship passengers in Canada are American. From what I've read the overwhelming majority of them live within a few hours drive of the embarkation port and drive to the ship.

I would imagine that stat would be if you include Caribbean destinations out of Miami, FL, NOLA, or Tampa. Take those cruises out of the mix, and I can assure you that when it comes to other parts of the globe, you rarely see any Americans and you can easily identify the 10% on the ship that are. There is a growing UK, German, French, and Scandinavian market for cruising - which we could tap into here in Atlantic Canada for sure.

[MonctonRad]

I think there is an opportunity for small cruise ships in the Atlantic Canadian market, based here, and travelling only to the Maritimes, up the St. Lawrence River and to Newfoundland.

There are similar small cruise ships in New England, and, because of their small sizes, they are able to visit ports like Camden and Bar Harbor ME. Such ships in Canada could visit places like Saint Andrews, Shediac, Miramichi and Bathurstin addition to Saint John. There would be numerous potential ports all over the east coast. I think it could easily be marketable to Europeans.

[sailor734]

Agree that any ships operating out of an east coast Canadian port would need to be much smaller.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by Pugsley

I would imagine that stat would be if you include Caribbean destinations out of Miami, FL, NOLA, or Tampa. Take those cruises out of the mix, and I can assure you that when it comes to other parts of the globe, you rarely see any Americans and you can easily identify the 10% on the ship that are. There is a growing UK, German, French, and Scandinavian market for cruising - which we could tap into here in Atlantic Canada for sure.

I was speaking about cruise ships operating into Canada from US east coast ports.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Not sure that would be practical. AFAIK something like 80% of the cruise ship passengers in Canada are American. From what I've read the overwhelming majority of them live within a few hours drive of the embarkation port and drive to the ship.

The overwhelming majority of Canadians that I know that take cruises end up flying somewhere in the US like Florida to board their cruise.

Plus, if we want any chance in hell at making it work, even for smaller scale cruises, we’ll need the better airport and flight connections first, not after.

What’s the worst that could happen anyways? The government subsidizes more flights to into NB from the rest of Canada and Europe, and we increase tourism into NB/ give NBers more options for their own vacations… imo, the increase in tourism and transportation options for New Brunswickers would be well worth the cost, even if wasn’t enough to get cruise voyages originating from Port Saint John. I think it would be enough to attract some, especially if Atlantic Canada as a whole cooperates together to try and make it happen.

This is a golden opportunity while it lasts… but this pro Canada tourism sentiment won’t last forever.


I think we could even get the Fredericton—Saint John combined airport idea off the ground and funded right now, because of this whole existential crisis and motivation to invest in Canada. Certainly doesn’t hurt the premier is the first to represent Fredericton in more than a century.

[nwalbert]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

The overwhelming majority of Canadians that I know that take cruises end up flying somewhere in the US like Florida to board their cruise.

Plus, if we want any chance in hell at making it work, even for smaller scale cruises, we’ll need the better airport and flight connections first, not after.

What’s the worst that could happen anyways? The government subsidizes more flights to into NB from the rest of Canada and Europe, and we increase tourism into NB/ give NBers more options for their own vacations… imo, it would be well worth it, even if wasn’t enough to get cruise lines that start their voyages from Port Saint John.

This is a golden opportunity while it lasts… but this pro Canada tourism sentiment won’t last forever. I think we could even get the Fredericton—Saint John combined airport idea off the ground and funded right now, because of this whole existential crisis and motivation to invest in Canada. Certainly doesn’t hurt the premier is the first to represent Fredericton in more than a century.

This is not a bad idea, but like you said will be dependent upon government subsidies to get started. This will entirely depend on who represents SJ in the next Federal election. Things look for SJ at the moment and I think that will also have a big impact on YSJ outside of this idea.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I think we could even get the Fredericton—Saint John combined airport idea off the ground and funded right now, because of this whole existential crisis and motivation to invest in Canada. Certainly doesn’t hurt the premier is the first to represent Fredericton in more than a century.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by nwalbert

This is not a bad idea, but like you said will be dependent upon government subsidies to get started. This will entirely depend on who represents SJ in the next Federal election. Things look for SJ at the moment and I think that will also have a big impact on YSJ outside of this idea.

I think it matters more which federal party ends up forming government. Federal funding won’t simply evaporate if Wayne Long doest win his seat… and no matter how big the Carney bump is, it’s incredibly unlikely a Liberal wins the Saint John—St. Croix riding.

I think what would matter even more for this idea to be realized, would be a coordinated, concerted effort from the leaders of the Atlantic provinces to make flight subsidies a priority, and a shared goal of making Atlantic Canada a starting point for cruises. Lobbying the federal government for funding support will be an important part of the process.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Your mockery only motivates me to post on this idea even further.

I’m sure you’d think nothing of the government of NB/ feds spending hundreds of millions expanding YQM… and you seem to think spending hundreds of millions on a new university in Moncton is a great idea.

You’ve never backed up your claim that a combined airport for Fredericton and Saint John would cost into the billions either…

I don’t think it’s the high price tag that bugs you the most about the Fredericton—Saint John combined airport idea… rather, I think it’s more the thought that such a project could relegate Moncton’s airport to the number two spot.

Personally, I think a new, combined airport for Fredericton and Saint John, along with passenger rail connecting Moncton, the new airport (possibly into Fredericton one day), and Saint John would set the province up for long term for success. Transportation infrastructure remains a weak spot for New Brunswick, and we should strive to improve the situation.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Your mockery only motivates me to post on this idea even further.

I suspected as much, hence the dog and bone.

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I’m sure you’d think nothing of the government of NB/ feds spending hundreds of millions expanding YQM… and you seem to think spending hundreds of millions on a new university in Moncton is a great idea.

If a UNB campus for Moncton were to transpire, of course I would be overjoyed. The difference between a university campus is that you could start small and gradually scale upwards. A new airport has to be built all at once.

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

You’ve never backed up your claim that a combined airport for Fredericton and Saint John would cost into the billions either…

The new prison hospital for Dorchester Penitentiary will likely cost a billion, and it is just a 125 bed inpatient psychiatric facility with a small infirmary. The expansion to the Halifax Infirmary is going to cost $7-8 billion dollars. And, you are telling me you could build a whole new airport including associated infrastructure for less than a billion!!!!!

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I don’t think it’s the high price tag that bugs you the most about the Fredericton—Saint John combined airport idea… rather, I think it’s more the thought that such a project could relegate Moncton’s airport to the number two spot.

I doubt your fanciful combo airport would push YQM to the #2 spot.

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Personally, I think a new, combined airport for Fredericton and Saint John, along with passenger rail connecting Moncton, the new airport (possibly into Fredericton one day), and Saint John would set the province up for long term for success. Transportation infrastructure remains a weak spot for New Brunswick, and we should strive to improve the situation.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Obviously I think you are wrong. I am also entitled to my opinion that this would be a waste of time and resources. After all, your fanciful airport would be only 30-40 km down the road from YFC. Why not just take the cheaper option of expanding YFC????

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I doubt your fanciful combo airport would push YQM to the #2 spot.



You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Obviously I think you are wrong. I am also entitled to my opinion that this would be a waste of time and resources. After all, your fanciful airport would be only 30-40 km down the road from YFC. Why not just take the cheaper option of expanding YFC????

The Saint John and Fredericton metropolitan areas have a combined population significantly larger than Moncton’s metropolitan population, so I don’t think it’s fanciful, at all, to suggest that this combined airport would take the number 1 spot… especially considering how many people from Fredericton and Saint John currently fly out of Moncton.

I think an airport located midway between the two cities remains preferable to simply expanding YFC, as it wouldn’t disproportionately favour one city’s growth and development over the other. In the long term, a shared airport is the far better solution for New Brunswick.

The only way I could get behind a YFC centric approach is if the government had a really good plan to link YFC and Saint John with passenger rail, or a really extensive bus service, along with assurances that YSJ would remain open. Better airport bus services/shuttles is something we should be looking at funding in the immediate future anyways.



A combined Fredericton—Saint John airport would be a big, powerful, and transformative idea that would be a catalyst for sustained development in two of the provinces’s biggest cities.

Personally, I don’t think it would be a waste of time and resources in the slightest. I think your opposition has far more to do with the idea not directly involving Moncton, than it has to do with wasting time and government resources.

That said, such a project could actually positively impact Moncton too, as not only would having a legitimate competitor airport within the province would be a good thing, YQM would likely see more funding and expansion than it otherwise would if the status quo was maintained where YQM continued to dwarf YFC and YSJ.

[dhottawa729]

https://www2.gnb.ca/content/dam/gnb/Depa...tions/provincial-air-sector-strategy.pdf

The centralized NB airport has been discussed on this thread ad nauseum with little support from thread contributors. It’s been studied at the provincial level and despite the passionate opinions expressed on this thread, it’s unfortunately barking up the wrong tree. Best approach is to lobby directly to the provincial government who came up with this strategy if anyone passionately disagrees with the Provincial Air Sector Strategy instead of spending time commenting here where any possible consensus lacks teeth. That academic study that someone posted a while back is probably the best pseudo-scientific leverage, and more useful than any consensus from a bunch of desktop commentators, so not much point in trying any harder to convince this thread as it just takes up airspace with no actionable outcome. It’s a thought-provoking idea, but let’s move on to other topics like how Air Canada is a partner in the high-speed rail corridor that will terminate Quebec City and what that might mean as an air-to-rail hub for Atlantic Canada. NB should be working on getting some connector flights to QC.

Also note: the Strategy highlights the importance of all 3 airports’ continued existence and so no point in competing for the same small population base and instead need to work together to maximize the economy uniformly and not at the detriment to any one municipality. This strategy seems like a fair approach.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

The overwhelming majority of Canadians that I know that take cruises end up flying somewhere in the US like Florida to board their cruise.

Plus, if we want any chance in hell at making it work, even for smaller scale cruises, we’ll need the better airport and flight connections first, not after.

What’s the worst that could happen anyways? The government subsidizes more flights to into NB from the rest of Canada and Europe, and we increase tourism into NB/ give NBers more options for their own vacations… imo, the increase in tourism and transportation options for New Brunswickers would be well worth the cost, even if wasn’t enough to get cruise voyages originating from Port Saint John. I think it would be enough to attract some, especially if Atlantic Canada as a whole cooperates together to try and make it happen.

This is a golden opportunity while it lasts… but this pro Canada tourism sentiment won’t last forever.


I think we could even get the Fredericton—Saint John combined airport idea off the ground and funded right now, because of this whole existential crisis and motivation to invest in Canada. Certainly doesn’t hurt the premier is the first to represent Fredericton in more than a century.

Man, are you ever fixated on the Welsford Int'l Airport idea. If international flights ever come to NB, it will be to YQM. They are not coming to YSJ, YFC or to Welsford.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

NB should be working on getting some connector flights to QC.

I agree with this. The lack of connectivity to QC is startling, especially since 30% of the population is francophone.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I agree with this. The lack of connectivity to QC is startling, especially since 30% of the population is francophone.

It is surprising there are no flight connections between QC and Atlantic Canada. Back in the day, Air Nova had daily flights from Halifax to both Quebec City and the Magdalen Islands.

For YQM, they should be approaching Air St. Pierre for YQM-FSP flights. And the NB Government should approach the St. Pierre government to offer medical services not available in SPM. Currently, those services are offered under contract by Eastern Health in St. John's. Moncton certainly has the advantage to offer medical services entirely in French; while St. John's has limited capacity to offer services in French. St. John's certainly has the geographical advantage of proximity with shorter flight times and the ferry/drive option for SPM residents not requiring acute medical services.

[dhottawa729]

Quebec City has some interesting destinations that would be nice to leverage via a regional connector flight (take note, Pascan !). Very interesting website if you are not familiar:
https://www.flightsfrom.com/explorer/YQB?mapview
You can also pan forward in the calendar and see confirmed summer route schedules and what days of the week they will run.

[q12]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

Quebec City has some interesting destinations that would be nice to leverage via a regional connector flight (take note, Pascan !). Very interesting website if you are not familiar:
https://www.flightsfrom.com/explorer/YQB?mapview
You can also pan forward in the calendar and see confirmed summer route schedules and what days of the week they will run.

Why in the world you want to fly to Quebec City to connect, when Montreal is right next door and has way more options.

The Maritimes are fortunate to have YHZ as an International airport. Halifax Stanfield is on a roll with adding new International routes in 2025.

The flights to Europe this summer from Halifax are only second to Toronto Pearson and Montreal Trudeau. As far as routes go Halifax will be basically on par with what Vancouver and Calgary offer to Europe this summer give or take a few destinations.

Pretty remarkable.

Frankfurt, Germany
Discover Airlines YHZ-Frankfurt up to 6x weekly A330 Resumes March 30

Zurich, Switzerland
Edelweiss Airlines YHZ-Zurich 2x weekly A340 Starts July 3

London, UK
Air Canada YHZ-London Heathrow, UK Daily 737max8 Year-round
Westjet YHZ-London, Gatwick, UK 3x weekly 737max8 Resumes April 28

Iceland
Icelandair YHZ-Reykjavik, Iceland 3x weekly 737max8 Resumes May 30

Scotland, UK
Westjet YHZ-Edinburgh, Scotland, UK 3x weekly 737max8 Resumes May 15

Dublin, Ireland
Westjet YHZ-Dublin 4x weekly 737max8 Resumes May 20

Amsterdam, Netherlands
Westjet YHZ-Amsterdam 6x weekly 737max8 Starts May 29

Paris, France
Westjet YHZ-Paris 4x weekly 737max8 Resumes May 16


The International to domestic connections facility opening in a few months will make connections to other Maritime cities far easier if we can get more of those intra-maritime routes back to YHZ.




Here was the route map for the summer of 2020 before Covid hit. As you can see Halifax has mostly got all of these routes back (with the big exceptions of YFC, YQM, YYG) and has now added many routes and carriers we didn't have pre pandemic (AMS, ZUR, REF, BDA etc.)

Halifax Stanfield is now back to 44 destinations with 17 airlines in 2025. If Fredericton, Moncton and Charlottetown service resumed that would put it at 47 destinations topping the 2020 forecasted summer that never happened.

In 2020 Halifax Stanfield expected 200 flights a day, with 17 airlines, going to 46 destinations around the
world. Two new destinations which we announced early in 2020 – Munich and Manchester
– unfortunately never had the opportunity to come to fruition.

[J81]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I suspected as much, hence the dog and bone.



If a UNB campus for Moncton were to transpire, of course I would be overjoyed. The difference between a university campus is that you could start small and gradually scale upwards. A new airport has to be built all at once.



The new prison hospital for Dorchester Penitentiary will likely cost a billion, and it is just a 125 bed inpatient psychiatric facility with a small infirmary. The expansion to the Halifax Infirmary is going to cost $7-8 billion dollars. And, you are telling me you could build a whole new airport including associated infrastructure for less than a billion!!!!!



I doubt your fanciful combo airport would push YQM to the #2 spot.



You are certainly entitled to your opinion. Obviously I think you are wrong. I am also entitled to my opinion that this would be a waste of time and resources. After all, your fanciful airport would be only 30-40 km down the road from YFC. Why not just take the cheaper option of expanding YFC????

I just ignore him at this point. He spams every thread with fantasy land proposals and no idea how to pay for them. I ignored him long ago. Do yourself a favour and do the same.