Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by le calmar

The PQ may be slightly weakened for the time being, but it doesn't suffer from vote split like the PLQ and the CAQ, which are both trying to appeal to non/soft-sovereigntists that are not convinced that a referendum is the way to go in the current climate. The reason being that QS barely has a heartbeat at this point.

Trump is busy lambasting Ukraine anyway, so the plans to annex Canada have been shelved.

Next month he'll probably be attacking Macron, you'll see.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

It's fast disappearing among the younger generations. Most of them don't have a regional accent anymore.

I have no doubt it's true. I was actually surprised to meet a younger person (early 30s) with such an noticeable accent from that part of France. Prior to that I had just assumed accents in that part of France were either completely gone, or at least significantly toned down. He's from Strasbourg, although he may or may not have grown up in a more rural part of the region, I'm not sure.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Trump is busy lambasting Ukraine anyway, so the plans to annex Canada have been shelved.

Next month he'll probably be attacking Macron, you'll see.

Canada was one the first things he focused on at the very beginning of his mandate, and maybe it's not a bad thing. If he keeps playing this game, he may have to deal with much bigger issues at some point (d'autres chats à fouetter). The Canada "issue" could end up on the back burner. Either that, or the US enter full crisis mode and he decides that obtaining all those resources up north/securing the northern border is now a matter of national security, so he's got to do it.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by le calmar

I have no doubt it's true. I was actually surprised to meet a younger person (early 30s) with such an noticeable accent from that part of France. Prior to that I had just assumed accents in that part of France were either completely gone, or at least significantly toned down. He's from Strasbourg, although he may or may not have grown up in a more rural part of the region, I'm not sure.

How could you tell anyway? Only a French ear could. It might have been Maghreban or Turk with a Maghreban or Turkish accent. There are lots of Turks in Alsace.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by le calmar

Canada was one the first things he focused on at the very beginning of his mandate, and maybe it's not a bad thing. If he keeps playing this game, he may have to deal with much bigger issues at some point (d'autres chats à fouetter). The Canada "issue" could end up on the back burner. Either that, or the US enter full crisis mode and he decides that obtaining all those resources up north/securing the northern border is now a matter of national security, so he's got to do it.

US society could not conquer Canada even if its mad president wanted to. They couldn't even defeat fucking Vietnam in the 1970s when US society was made up of more traditional and martial older generations, so you think gen X, Y, Z with their hedonist lifestyle are going to make sacrifices to fight a nation of 40 million and millions of km² of territory?

All of that is not serious. At worst you'll get higher tariffs and you'll survive. If anything it will be good for Canada, as it will force you to expand your economic partnerships and reorient your economy. The current situation was a dead-end anyway (as per dwindling Canadian productivity). Just being the 'back office' of the US simply won't work for a large country like Canada.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

How could you tell anyway? Only a French ear could. It might have been Maghreban or Turk with a Maghreban or Turkish accent. There are lots of Turks in Alsace.

He's actually a good friend and old classmate of mine. Definitely of French ancestry. And yes I could tell as a non-French. It's the "guttural" thing. You can tell his accent has a German influence.

[Acajack]

I am sure I am not nearly as good as a native-born French person, but there are definitely some regional accents in France that I can identify, such as the Accent du Midi of course.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

*Your* authority for sure has been seriously challenged recently, by your own compatriotes (for the time being).

This thread has been much of the café du commerce, the bar à vin (wine bar) in the Canadian subforum.
You are the official authority here, ain't ya?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

US society could not conquer Canada even if its mad president wanted to. They couldn't even defeat fucking Vietnam in the 1970s when US society was made up of more traditional and martial older generations, so you think gen X, Y, Z with their hedonist lifestyle are going to make sacrifices to fight a nation of 40 million and millions of km² of territory?

All of that is not serious. At worst you'll get higher tariffs and you'll survive. If anything it will be good for Canada, as it will force you to expand your economic partnerships and reorient your economy. The current situation was a dead-end anyway (as per dwindling Canadian productivity). Just being the 'back office' of the US simply won't work for a large country like Canada.

First point is absolutely true. Even when attacked the US lost interest with casualties and whatever propaganda they tried wouldn't get Americans angry enough to invade Canada. This isn't Russia though the same feeling for being one people exists.

Tariffs is much more complicated and the same kind of logic the UK had with Brexit. Except the EU tariffs are mostly pretty low. 25% is a game changer.

[YOWetal]

Ottawa commits to resettle 4,700 Sudanese refugees, reopens family pathway following outcry
Sudanese Canadians had been calling for Ottawa to do more to help people fleeing humanitarian crisis

After it was declared the worst humanitarian crisis in the world by the African Union, Federal Immigration Minister Marc Miller says Canada is committing to resettle 4,700 refugees fleeing the ongoing civil war in Sudan.

Ottawa is also reopening applications on Feb 25 for the permanent residence pathway program it created for close family members of Sudanese Canadians, adding 1,750 applications to the 3,250 it has already received for a total of 5,000.

The ministry estimates the applications will lead to roughly 10,000 people resettling in Canada via their family anchors here.


When that program opened in February 2024, Sudanese Quebecers were excluded because Quebec opted not to participate in the program.

This time, 500 applications are being reserved for Quebecers until April 17, but applicants must resettle their Sudanese family members outside the province.

Of the 4,700 refugees Canada says it will resettle by the end of 2026, Miller's office said 4,000 would receive government assistance, while 700 would arrive through private sponsorship.

Does anybody believe these people are going to stay settled outside of Quebec? Can predict they will move and there will be an outcry.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I am sure I am not nearly as good as a native-born French person, but there are definitely some regional accents in France that I can identify, such as the Accent du Midi of course.

Southern France has various accents, but people from northern France usually lumps them as just one "southern accent". South-west and south-east accents are very different.

This is south-west, the president of the Occitanie region, who has a very thick one (but it's not unusual in south-west France, even among the younger generations). Notice how she geminates (= doubles) the consonants, as in Italian. This is typical of the south-west, and comes straight from Occitan. "Année" (at 0:34 in the video) gets its two n pronounced (which would have been the case in Parisian French too in the 17th century, but was later lost).

• Video Link

And this is south-east, the former mayor of Marseille, an accent that is fast dying:

• Video Link

South-eastern France is essentially lost, its younger generations increasingly speaking with no particular accent anymore.

These are young kids from Aix-en-Provence, near Marseille, in 2024 for instance. No trace of the Provençal accent left! It's all gone!!

• Video Link

Only south-western France resists. Even the younger generations still have a very strong accent in south-western France.

That's high school kids from Béziers for example (the south-west from a linguistic point of view extends all the way east to Nîmes), doing what French high-school kids do best, demonstrating for nothing! The accents are as authentic as the older generations though.

• Video Link

Until when will they keep having that strong accent, I don't know. The steamroller of mass medias erases every regional particularism. The only accents that are still very lively today are the Paris banlieue accent (which is not something I'm pleased with), and the south-western accent.

[New Brisavoine]

Apparently French journalists haven't received the memo. Heard this this evening on Europe 1 radio : "Les Canadiens ont 25% de droits de douane, alors que les Chinois seulement 10%." The journalist was commenting on the fact Trump and his henchmen treat a dictatorship better than a democracy. Apparently unaware Trump suspended the tariff...

[someone123]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

First point is absolutely true. Even when attacked the US lost interest with casualties and whatever propaganda they tried wouldn't get Americans angry enough to invade Canada. This isn't Russia though the same feeling for being one people exists.

Tariffs is much more complicated and the same kind of logic the UK had with Brexit. Except the EU tariffs are mostly pretty low. 25% is a game changer.

One disconnect is that there is a low information American perspective that presumes that they can do whatever they want to Canada with minimal pain, and they are being nice to Canada right now. Neither of those points are very accurate. They get a lot of resources from Canada, they're not particularly nice to Canada or their other allies with whom they already have a damaged reputation, and there is no guarantee Canada will roll over as desired from the US.

You see similar delusions with Ukraine and comments even here on SSP about how it all just comes down to the USA talking to Russia and Trump can decide the end of the war. In reality Ukraine and the EU are major players as well, with the US being hypothetically replaceable and tied for 3rd place.

The trade discussion is enormously complicated but so far American actions have been poorly coordinated and seem to be hurting their own reputation and own economy. I would favour free trade with the USA but I think Canada can do much better than it has been doing without them in the long run if it comes to that. And the world as a whole doesn't have to do things like use their currency and respect their intellectual property and so on. Those aren't fundamental laws of global economies, they are outcomes related to past good American decisions that Americans are in the process of undermining.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by someone123

One disconnect is that there is a low information American perspective that presumes that they can do whatever they want to Canada with minimal pain, and they are being nice to Canada right now. Neither of those points are very accurate. They get a lot of resources from Canada, they're not particularly nice to Canada or their other allies with whom they already have a damaged reputation, and there is no guarantee Canada will roll over as desired from the US.

You see similar delusions with Ukraine and comments even here on SSP about how it all just comes down to the USA talking to Russia and Trump can decide the end of the war. In reality Ukraine and the EU are major players as well, with the US being hypothetically replaceable and tied for 3rd place.

The trade discussion is enormously complicated but so far American actions have been poorly coordinated and seem to be hurting their own reputation and own economy. I would favour free trade with the USA but I think Canada can do much better than it has been doing without them in the long run if it comes to that. And the world as a whole doesn't have to do things like use their currency and respect their intellectual property and so on. Those aren't fundamental laws of global economies, they are outcomes related to past good American decisions that Americans are in the process of undermining.

The idea we can do better without the US is a bit ridiculous. We might be able to deal with decoupling to some extent but our manufacturing base is building things together. Which actually makes the US need Canada as well. Not nearly to the same extent but their pain tolerance is also much lower. 50000 job losses in the midwest would be pretty crippling.

On Ukraine it will be interesting to see what comes next but a country can defeat an empire even without support. For Ukraine they want the EU. The US is really only about security so if the EU is still within reach they may choose to keep fighting. Especially with the hatred that has developed. The original assumption was after the 3 day invasion it might end up with an insurgency. We may end up there after 3 years.

[New Brisavoine]

Typical conversation with a French journalist (who is otherwise a rather good journalist, writing about the excesses of the 'Green' lobby in France, with always very researched articles). Don't expect the French to defend their own language. This is pretty much the last thing they'll do. Québec is on its own here.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Typical conversation with a French journalist (who is otherwise a rather good journalist, writing about the excesses of the 'Green' lobby in France, with always very researched articles). Don't expect the French to defend their own language. This is pretty much the last thing they'll do. Québec is on its own here.

Au Québec: "garrocher en dessous de l'autobus"

And BTW Americans do use that expression.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Au Québec: "garrocher en dessous de l'autobus"

And BTW Americans do use that expression.

Never heard it in the US.

Always see it in British newspapers (like they use it more than once a day in just about any British newspaper).

By the way, the journalist now in full 'bad faifth' mode, not even acknowledging it's an anglicisme.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Never heard it in the US.

Find that hard to believe.. it's commonly used in US and Canada.

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Never heard it in the US.

Always see it in British newspapers (like they use it more than once a day in just about any British newspaper).

By the way, the journalist now in full 'bad faifth' mode, not even acknowledging it's an anglicisme.

I heard many times on U.S. TV. Here is an example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGmgJLeXUWQ


Other examples:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCWgr5DcuIY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlgVLFeq7yo

[harls]

You guys are really throwing NB under the bus on this one.