Burnaby Updates

[giallo]

Brentwood looks nice from the air or when viewing the skyline at a distance, but it is absolutely horrid at street level. Like truly awful.

From the southeast edge of Trish's photo all the way to Brentwood Station, there is exactly zero retail. Nothing. Not a corner store, a restaurant or a nail salon. Nada. It's an 800m* stretch of lifeless streets and fast-moving cars. A true vertical suburb.

*800m that's shown in the photo. The dearth of retail or anything interesting extends beyond this photo and past Holdom Station.

[LowerLonsdaleMike]

I agree! I really think that whole area needed a master plan that made it more urban but it's just a patchwork of condo blocks that really dont flow nor feel like a downtown or urban core. It's a shame.

[Vin]

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[vanman]

The Amazing Brentwood has CRUs fronting Lougheed. There's even a breakfast place with a nice patio. Brentwood Block by Grosvenor will also have retail fronting Lougheed. East of that your point stands. I would say even with the lack of retail the wide sidewalks and bike lanes plus decent amount of landscaping and street trees makes for a much better pedestrian experience than Marine Drive in Vancouver for example.

[Vin]

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[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by vanman

The Amazing Brentwood has CRUs fronting Lougheed. There's even a breakfast place with a nice patio. Brentwood Block by Grosvenor will also have retail fronting Lougheed. East of that your point stands. I would say even with the lack of retail the wide sidewalks and bike lanes plus decent amount of landscaping and street trees makes for a much better pedestrian experience than Marine Drive in Vancouver for example.

This is obviously a matter of opinion, but what you're describing is less a "better pedestrian experience" in the sense of place where pedestrians want to go and stop at the various hotspots and people-magnet (retail) areas - even just to mill around, and is more of a "pedestrian experience" in the sense of a quick and effecient way to get from point A to point B with no muss and no fuss in between.

Whether that's actually "better" or not,.....like I said,.....matter of opinion.

Most people I reckon would lean more on the "not" side.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by giallo

Brentwood looks nice from the air or when viewing the skyline at a distance, but it is absolutely horrid at street level. Like truly awful.

From the southeast edge of Trish's photo all the way to Brentwood Station, there is exactly zero retail. Nothing. Not a corner store, a restaurant or a nail salon. Nada. It's an 800m* stretch of lifeless streets and fast-moving cars. A true vertical suburb.

*800m that's shown in the photo. The dearth of retail or anything interesting extends beyond this photo and past Holdom Station.

Give it time: it will be much better. Agree that the area from Brentwood to Holdom needs a lot more retail and other services. When the all the Concord phases are completed, there will be retail. The Grosvenor development will also provide plenty of retail after completion:
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/brentwood-block-brentwood-town-centre-burnaby-grosvenor

Existing street retail on completed projects:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.2665804,-..._ep=EgoyMDI1MDIxMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.2644478,-..._ep=EgoyMDI1MDIxMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.2644736,-..._ep=EgoyMDI1MDIxMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.2644814,-..._ep=EgoyMDI1MDIxMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.265572,-1..._ep=EgoyMDI1MDIxMi4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

[ecbin]

Originally Posted by giallo

Brentwood looks nice from the air or when viewing the skyline at a distance, but it is absolutely horrid at street level. Like truly awful.

From the southeast edge of Trish's photo all the way to Brentwood Station, there is exactly zero retail. Nothing. Not a corner store, a restaurant or a nail salon. Nada. It's an 800m* stretch of lifeless streets and fast-moving cars. A true vertical suburb.

*800m that's shown in the photo. The dearth of retail or anything interesting extends beyond this photo and past Holdom Station.

100%. I've used the term "ghetto" to describe what the future of Brentwood will be - it may be fancy luxury towers now but the way the area has been planned (or more correctly, not planned) is terrible and it's only going to get worse as more of the towers get built.

[GenWhy?]

Skyline Drive is very car-oriented and will be interesting to watch over the years. I walked around it last month and it still has "parking lot" vibes and promotes easy "jaywalking" but it still feels unsafe to do so at times (too many blind spots).

I like Rosser Ave, though it's still too wide.

Dawson is the high street and should turn out really well

[officedweller]

Yeah, remember that Dawson is the high street, not Lougheed.

Lougheed is the main transportation corridor and despite what some planners may want theoretically, it would not be able to do all things for all people.
(see conflicts in Vancouver and elsewhere between moving traffic and competing business interests resisting the loss of curb-side parking, etc. on main arterial streets such as Granville St. and West 41st Ave.).
Its the same way that West Georgia is not the main high street downtown - that's Robson St.

[ecbin]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Yeah, remember that Dawson is the high street, not Lougheed.

Did not know this was the intent - is there much material on this? I have a hard time imagining Dawson as a high street in its current condition. There's still lots of development that can take place to build it out of course but it seems like it'd be 30 years before Dawson is a good high street.

Originally Posted by officedweller

Lougheed is the main transportation corridor and despite what some planners may want theoretically, it would not be able to do all things for all people.
(see conflicts in Vancouver and elsewhere between moving traffic and competing business interests resisting the loss of curb-side parking, etc. on main arterial streets such as Granville St. and West 41st Ave.).
Its the same way that West Georgia is not the main high street downtown - that's Robson St.

But West Georgia, despite the traffic, is still a high pedestrian traffic street where the traffic doesn't dramatically harm the experience. Lots of street level retail from the Viaduct to Bute (the rest of Georgia could support that kind of retail if the City had allowed it). It works pretty well from that stretch (I would never avoid walking down Georgia b/c of the traffic).

I don't see how Lougheed could ever be that with the way development is being structured (nor does it really need to be - I just wish it wasn't going to be a traffic sewer).

[officedweller]

Originally West Georgia was a "ceremonial" street with open plazas on alternating blocks and sides of the street.
Over the years, those plazas have been filled in (Georgia viaduct park, CBC Building, 401 West Georgia, Scotia Tower, Pacific Centre (both sides), Royal Tower)
You can still see the open space on the western end, where it is primarily residential.
It's not a continuous retail frontage type of street (i.e. display windows are not always at the sidewalk, which makes it harder for stores selling hard goods, versus restaurants or services).

Originally Posted by ecbin

Did not know this was the intent - is there much material on this? I have a hard time imagining Dawson as a high street in its current condition. There's still lots of development that can take place to build it out of course but it seems like it'd be 30 years before Dawson is a good high street.

It's in the 1996 Brentwood Town Centre Community Plan and subsequent area/project plans are consistent with that intent:

https://www.burnaby.ca/our-city/strategies-and-plans/official-community-plan/community-plans

On the area master plans listed:
"Woodlands" is Concord Brentwood.
"Brentwood Town Centre" is Amazing Brentwood
"Grove" is Anthem's South Yards



https://burnaby.widen.net/s/rtgkgtzm7d/brentwood-town-centre-plan-1996

[chowhou]

Y'all are making me tap the sign again.

https://burnaby.widen.net/s/cjzt2pp5sk/brentwood-land-use-map

Lougheed west of Beta, and Hennings-Dawson-Goring-Douglas are where the action is supposed to happen. Lougheed east of Beta is the end of the "highway" part of "Lougheed highway". Georgia might be bustling at Burrard, but after you get west of, what, Bute? Pretty much pedestrian hostile highway from then on at that point. Especially after the Pender intersection.

[officedweller]

Greenspace, gardens and plazas forming a ceremonial connection leading to the greenspace at Stanley Park.
All those tower condo projects on Georgia (Residences on Georgia, The Lions, The Park, Lord Stanley/Lumiere, Bayshore, and the one next to the Ho House, have setback gardens between them for that ceremonial (grand boulevard?) purpose (maybe like how the median boulevards under the Bartholemew plan (King Edward, Cambie, West 16th) were meant for Sunday drives).

[SpongeG]

Today, I noticed that Tesla chargers were installed at that small strip mall at Lougheed and Bainbridge, the SE corner. Half the already small parking lot is now for Tesla.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Yeah, remember that Dawson is the high street, not Lougheed.

And yet the bulk of the development is on Lougheed... so you've got most pedestrians trying to cross two 6-7 lane stroads (Willingdon too) while the "high street" continues to sit empty as a mix of townhomes and warehouses. Looks like somebody somewhere did not get the memo.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

And yet the bulk of the development is on Lougheed... so you've got most pedestrians trying to cross two 6-7 lane stroads (Willingdon too) while the "high street" continues to sit empty as a mix of townhomes and warehouses. Looks like somebody somewhere did not get the memo.

Just a consequence of availability for development due to private ownership.
... and stores never come first before there's critical mass of customers nearby
(or, rather, the first wave of businesses usually fails, and others swoop in to spaces with ready leasehold improvements)

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Just a consequence of availability for development due to private ownership.
... and stores never come first before there's critical mass of customers nearby
(or, rather, the first wave of businesses usually fails, and others swoop in to spaces with ready leasehold improvements)

Fair... in the meantime though (a decade-ish?), they're facing twice the drawbacks of Marine Gateway with only a few more benefits.

There's also the fact that Brentwood is on the "wrong" side of Lougheed from Dawson, so more and more people will end up using that intersection - Burnaby Council will eventually have to make some tough choices.

[officedweller]

Dawson will have a lot of competition with nearby commercial developments - not only Amazing Brentwood, but whatever else is built on the north side of Lougheed.

Hopefully the Brentwood Station overpass would remain freeflowing (not behind faregates) so people can use it after the Carter site is redeveloped (hopefully with a lot of retail for continuity from Amazing Brentwood through to Dawson).

[vinnycox]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Fair... in the meantime though (a decade-ish?), they're facing twice the drawbacks of Marine Gateway with only a few more benefits.

There's also the fact that Brentwood is on the "wrong" side of Lougheed from Dawson, so more and more people will end up using that intersection - Burnaby Council will eventually have to make some tough choices.

Lougheed and Willingdon needs a pedestrian scramble so bad. The redevelopment of the stripmall and Petro Can with the narrow sidewalk along the North side of Lougheed needs to go ASAP. It would do so much to elevate the pedestrian experience in the area and help with moving people between Solo District Amazing Brentwood, Dawson high street and the eventual developments of Brentwood West, South Yards, and Grosvenor