California High Speed Rail Thread

[sopas ej]

From Streetsblog California:

Trump Turns Firehose of Disinformation on California High-Speed Rail
New administration, same BS.

By Damien Newton
1:21 PM PST on February 5, 2025



Yesterday, during a press availability that was mostly about his plans for the ethnic cleansing of the Gaza Strip, President Donald Trump attacked California High-Speed Rail, the under construction 520+ mile mega-project that will one day connect Sacramento, to the Bay Area, through the Central Valley and Los Angeles, down to Anaheim and San Diego.

He threatened an investigation of the project to search for what he believes is rampant corruption. He offered no proof that such corruption exists.

"Any investigation is going to find we've been spending money wisely. We're buying land, buying trains, and we're working as fast as we can with the money we have," Jim Patrick, a spokesperson for the project, told Streetsblog.

[...]

[Busy Bee]

My perfectly reasonable observation a few days ago got deleted because it was apparantly too CE.

Lame. And silly.

Anyways, looking forward to tying this sorry excuse for a human being onto the track for the innaugural IOS run.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

From Streetsblog California:

Trump Turns Firehose of Disinformation on California High-Speed Rail
New administration, same BS.

By Damien Newton
1:21 PM PST on February 5, 2025



Yesterday, during a press availability that was mostly about his plans for the ethnic cleansing of the Gaza Strip, President Donald Trump attacked California High-Speed Rail, the under construction 520+ mile mega-project that will one day connect Sacramento, to the Bay Area, through the Central Valley and Los Angeles, down to Anaheim and San Diego.

He threatened an investigation of the project to search for what he believes is rampant corruption. He offered no proof that such corruption exists.

"Any investigation is going to find we've been spending money wisely. We're buying land, buying trains, and we're working as fast as we can with the money we have," Jim Patrick, a spokesperson for the project, told Streetsblog.

[...]

But at least the very stable genius turned on the spigot and wasted two billions of gallons of water on flooding Central Valley farms. So tough and decisive!

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

What do you guys think will be the repercussions from todays announcement? Are we gonna see all federal funding pulled and a massive slow down in work? Will this effect any of the start dates for the LA segment?

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

What do you guys think will be the repercussions from todays announcement? Are we gonna see all federal funding pulled and a massive slow down in work? Will this effect any of the start dates for the LA segment?

Um, there aren't any start dates for the LA segment.

[Crawford]

Jesus, can a debilitating or fatal heart attack come to 1600 Penn., pretty please?

[craigs]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

What do you guys think will be the repercussions from todays announcement? Are we gonna see all federal funding pulled and a massive slow down in work? Will this effect any of the start dates for the LA segment?

I didn't hear the entire speech, but it appears there will be no more funding and IIRC the regime will try to claw back money allocated to the project by the Biden administration.

I've got to say, the reality television star-cum-Secretary of Transportation couldn't have picked a more resonant location and the protesters booing and heckling him were *chef's kiss*

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by craigs

I didn't hear the entire speech, but it appears there will be no more funding and IIRC the regime will try to claw back money allocated to the project by the Biden administration.

I've got to say, the reality television star-cum-Secretary of Transportation couldn't have picked a more resonant location and the protesters booing and heckling him were *chef's kiss*

Not as good as Sara Nelson protesting Elon Musk's "dick rockets to Mars" yesterday but a solid effort.

https://bsky.app/profile/alvarezreports.bsky.social/post/3lil2jvnys223

[Busy Bee]

Pitchfork time.

[Illithid Dude]

Considering most of the funding comes from CA I can't imagine the audit is going to do much. I'm more interested in what Newsom was saying about involving a private company and doing a PPP.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by Illithid Dude

Considering most of the funding comes from CA I can't imagine the audit is going to do much. I'm more interested in what Newsom was saying about involving a private company and doing a PPP.

That would be ideal and should have been the way from the get go.

In regards to an LA segment start date, now that the eir is complete and the route is a go from a planning perspective, isn't there an estimated start date (even if it's years out)

[ssiguy]

Funny that Trudeau decided to bid a final good bye by announcing a funding for the start of procurement for HSR between QC to Toronto via Montreal & Ottawa. One of the things the Minister in charge of the program was quick to point out is that they will make sure that they do NOT follow the California HSR model.

I guess if there is one positive thing that CHSR has done, it's that it has shown the rest of NA how to avoid such a scenario. California has become the poster child of how not to build HSR...........the rest of NA appreciates your sacrifice.

[Busy Bee]

California has become the poster child of how not to build HSR

Please elaborate. I'm just curious if you have any idea what you're talking about.

[ssiguy]

^^ Well, it's going to come in at at LEAST quadruple the budget and nearly decades behind schedule and that assumes they actually finish the project. If that's not a failure, I'm not sure what is.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Please elaborate. I'm just curious if you have any idea what you're talking about.

Don't bother feeding this troll. She is a right-wing foreigner gloating that the Trump regime is killing off CAHSR.

[TWAK]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

^^ Well, it's going to come in at at LEAST quadruple the budget and nearly decades behind schedule and that assumes they actually finish the project. If that's not a failure, I'm not sure what is.

2008 money vs 2025 money...of course the budget would be bigger, especially now with inflation and tariffs. Then the whole current discussion is about the feds taking money away, thus helping to stall the project and make it cost more.

[hughfb3]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

Funny that Trudeau decided to bid a final good bye by announcing a funding for the start of procurement for HSR between QC to Toronto via Montreal & Ottawa. One of the things the Minister in charge of the program was quick to point out is that they will make sure that they do NOT follow the California HSR model.

I guess if there is one positive thing that CHSR has done, it's that it has shown the rest of NA how to avoid such a scenario. California has become the poster child of how not to build HSR...........the rest of NA appreciates your sacrifice.

Poster Child... funny you say that. Without CAHSR, there is no Brightline West HSR, Texas HSR, Canada HSR, High Desert Corridor HSR with money on the table from a canceled freeway project, and maybe not even the initial Brightline in Florida. HSR has been talked about for decades in this country since Japan and Europe began their systems in the '60s with no action. Even though Brightline Florida opened first, its planning started 4 years after CAHSR started and isnt even a full fledged HSR, but a mostly single track at-grade, fast-for-a-diesel train line... and I do love to ride it when I'm in Florida and take it over flying every time. It is only because CA took the initial investment and dared to construct it that it allowed others the permission to get serious about intercity rail travel in NA.

Part of being Wise is not having to stumble and figure out everything newly when someone else has already traveled down that road and carved the path. Wisdom would have each consult and observe the pitfalls of the other so that mistakes are not repeated because why would we want to repeat mistakes? CAHSR is the first such program in North America with North American politics, geography and sprawl. It would behoove everyone to look at it as an example of what to do and what not to do.

[FromSD]

Originally Posted by hughfb3

Part of being Wise is not having to stumble and figure out everything newly when someone else has already traveled down that road and carved the path. Wisdom would have each consult and observe the pitfalls of the other so that mistakes are not repeated because why would we want to repeat mistakes? CAHSR is the first such program in North America with North American politics, geography and sprawl. It would behoove everyone to look at it as an example of what to do and what not to do.

The original CAHSR bond referendum in 2008 was fundamentally flawed. It was based on wildly optimistic budget estimates and expectations of private investment in the project. It set up very aggressive targets for trip times between SF and LA at the same time as it stipulated a fairly circuitous route via the Antelope Valley and Route 99 corridor. If CAHSR ends up a failure, it will be because the project was set up to be a failure by the original referendum.

Once construction began, progress was hampered by the way the legislature doled out money on a yearly basis. It's hard to show impressive gains when you're dealing with such a constrained budget. You can't keep to the original schedule when you don't have the money to do so. Other than that, I've never seen any evidence that management of CAHSR construction has been worse than is typical for most major infrastructure projects.

So the biggest lesson learned from CAHSR: don't set your project up for failure.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by FromSD

It set up very aggressive targets for trip times between SF and LA

Because otherwise it would be watered down and no longer be high speed rail.

at the same time as it stipulated a fairly circuitous route via the Antelope Valley and Route 99 corridor.

We've been over this ad nauseam. The more direct route would not have enabled Las Vegas to interline. It ought to be pretty obvious by now that they are in fact negotiating to get private money to share the cost of building the tunneled route between Palmdale and Burbank and to sign Brightline as a tenant.

Once construction began, progress was hampered by the way the legislature doled out money on a yearly basis. It's hard to show impressive gains when you're dealing with such a constrained budget.

The ballot issue was unfortunately timed with the gigantic 2008-09 recession and the rise of the Tea Party. Obama did not have control of congress and so was not able to push significant federal money toward this project (although it did get some sizeable grants that had been rejected by other states like Ohio and Wisconsin).

You can't keep to the original schedule when you don't have the money to do so.

They also need a governor like Jerry Brown who isn't treating the office like a stepping stone to the Presidency. Gavin Newsom pushed absolutely $0 from the state's gigantic back-to-back-to-back-to-back surpluses toward this project. The money was there but it was spent shoring up political votes (i.e. funding the state pension fund).

So the biggest lesson learned from CAHSR: don't set your project up for failure.

Okay well then please suggest exactly and precisely how the 2008 ballot language should have been scripted.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by TWAK

2008 money vs 2025 money...of course the budget would be bigger, especially now with inflation and tariffs. Then the whole current discussion is about the feds taking money away, thus helping to stall the project and make it cost more.

All throughout its history CHSR cost estimations included inflation with its cost estimations. As of last year, they were estimating costs in 2030 dollars, not in 2024 dollars, when they were also discussing a possible 2033 completion date and initial operating segment service initiation.

Never-the-less, estimation costs have always included standard inflation rates.
So the inflation excuse fails.