Canadian Airport Thread II

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

There are many reasons Canadians may need to travel to the US. Canadians may have family or a relationship there, for example. Or they may be required to travel there for work. In my family, my cousin is married to an American who is a Canadian permanent resident (and to my knowledge is a staunch Democrat), but if something happens in his family, they may need to go there.

I have no US travel planned in the near future and have no roots/connections there, but I understand why other Canadians may still go there.

Witch hunts aren't going to get us anywhere. People need to chill.

I might fly down to Florida as a roundabout way to to visit a good friend in Michigan before Saint John's cheap flight with Flair to Orlando is probably gone for good.

[Dominion301]

Not sure if this was previously mentioned but to make up for the loss of Condor, Discover have increased service to YHZ from 5x to 6x weekly.

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/250210-4yns25yhz

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by jc_yyc_ca

YUL is running away with 3rd spot and looks like it might even pass YVR at some point.

I don't see that happening.

Yes, the gap has narrowed between the two - going from a little over 6 million in 2019 to 3.8 million in 2024, but that's still quite a large gap, and several factors make surpassing YVR highly unlikely.

1. YUL's poor domestic numbers will always hold it back.
2. YUL is at capacity. Until the new satellite terminal is built, YUL simply can't handle the amount of traffic needed to pass YVR.
3. AC's long haul growth has peaked. Yes, the A321XLR will open up new possibilities, but I don't see that being enough to push YUL into #2 territory.

In all honesty, point #2 and #3 are just gravy. Due to point #1 alone, I think YVR will remain #2 overall for quite a while.

If it weren't for that, YUL would already be ahead. It already handles more international passengers than YVR, by quite a lot, and has for a number of years. So the only variable that is not up to par is domestic. Quebecers simply do not travel domestically to the same extent people from other provinces do, and that aspect, sadly, won't change.

Originally Posted by Dominion301

Thanks to reduced China flying, YVR’s taken a big hit.

Demand to China isn't what it used to be. Several airlines have pulled back their China flights.

Still, YVR has managed surprisingly well, all things considered. I think passengers wanting to go to China now simply fly via other destinations, and pay significantly more than pre-2020 prices, which were ridiculously low to begin with. Chinese airlines were clearly dumping cheap seats into the market.

[SignalHillHiker]

Checking to see if YYT updated its route map and it appears they've just decided to remove it entirely,

Still, nice to see the flights to Europe on other sites...



Our longest direct flight is Calgary (6hr18), and shortest is to the French islands of St. Pierre et Miquelon (0hr45).

In order of duration, always interests me (this doesn't necessarily align with distance as shorter routes often use smaller, slower planes; jet stream usually makes flying to Europe a bit faster, etc.):

Calgary 6hr18
Edmonton 6hr05
Cancun 5hr50
Varadero 5hr40
Montego Bay 5hr35
Cayo Coco 5hr25
Punta Cana 5hr25
Tampa 5hr18
Paris 5hr15
London 5hr10
Orlando 5hr09
Dublin 4hr35
Toronto 3hr53
Ottawa 3hr10
Montreal 2hr59
Halifax 2hr10
Happy Valley-Goose Bay 1hr55
St. Anthony 1hr30
Deer lake 1hr15
Gander 0hr45
St. Pierre 0hr45

Is YYT-St. Pierre a contender for shortest international flight in Canada or is border jumping common on the mainland by plane? I see Vancouver-Seattle is 1hr10, and Windsor-Detroit doesn't exist but is 4hr+ with a connection lol

NINE years since I've been? Jesus, where does the time go.

• Video Link

BTW, at 10:25, those hills on the horizon are Newfoundland. It's that close.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

There are many reasons Canadians may need to travel to the US. Canadians may have family or a relationship there, for example. Or they may be required to travel there for work. In my family, my cousin is married to an American who is a Canadian permanent resident (and to my knowledge is a staunch Democrat), but if something happens in his family, they may need to go there.

I have no US travel planned in the near future and have no roots/connections there, but I understand why other Canadians may still go there.

Pretty sure lots of Canadians had family and friends in Germany in 1938 too.

[Chocolite]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Will be interested to see what happens to United States (trans border) passenger volumes. Hopefully, we'll see massive drops replaced by a spike in travel to countries other than the United States. There will always be Canadians who are indifferent, don't care, blind to what's going on around them so perhaps a 100% tariff on air travel to the US is needed. It's exasperating watching some Canadians spending 1000s of dollars in the US as visitors while the rest of us are doing our part to save this country from collapse boycotting US products.

Everyone I know who had plans (but not booked) to go to the US is cancelling them. We will see a drop for sure and a silver lining side affect of the low Canadian dollar might be less travel for business, and also less vacation travel for those who don’t care about the tariffs.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Is YYT-St. Pierre a contender for shortest international flight in Canada or is border jumping common on the mainland by plane? I see Vancouver-Seattle is 1hr10, and Windsor-Detroit doesn't exist but is 4hr+ with a connection lol

The old London-Detroit on Northwest used to clock in around that, but I think it spent as much time taxiing at Detroit as flying there lol. Not sure what the timing was in the short period after Delta took over and used the CRJ before cancelling the route altogether. I can't think of anything shorter than your example nowadays though.

[SignalHillHiker]

I'm checking Toronto to NY places like Rochester, Buffalo, etc. as those presumably would be more convenient than driving but still quite short flights.

I've found lots of 4hr+ ones with connections, and notes that it would be, for example, 41 minutes to Rochester but that doesn't exist. If there is a single, regularly-scheduled commercial flight from Toronto to NY cities on the coast of that lake, it'd be shorter.

[MonctonRad]

How about Vancouver or Victoria to Seattle?

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

How about Vancouver or Victoria to Seattle?

Your reading comprehension is not my problem.

(Haha, kidding, but I did mention Van - it's over an hour. I assume same for VIC.)

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Your reading comprehension is not my problem.

(Haha, kidding, but I did mention Van - it's over an hour. I assume same for VIC.)

Sorry, I was just skimming the thread.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I'm checking Toronto to NY places like Rochester, Buffalo, etc. as those presumably would be more convenient than driving but still quite short flights.

I've found lots of 4hr+ ones with connections, and notes that it would be, for example, 41 minutes to Rochester but that doesn't exist. If there is a single, regularly-scheduled commercial flight from Toronto to NY cities on the coast of that lake, it'd be shorter.

I wouldn't be surprised if in the 30-40 years ago range that there might have been some commuter flights into Rochester or maybe Syracuse from Toronto, or Montreal to Burlington VT. Heck, back then, London had flights to Cleveland and Pittsburgh, so I could seeToronto having some puddle jumpers across the lake at the time too. But the airlines aren't really using 20 and 30 seaters much anymore for those kind of flights and the demand doesn't justify what they have as the smallest of the fleet anymore.

Also, while not international, I did notice that the London-Toronto flights are now scheduled at 50 minutes, even though they are half the distance as St John's to St Pierre, and I imagine that is entirely due to congestion at Toronto. The times for Vancouver to Seattle are probably what they are also due to busy airports at both ends.

[zoomer]

Victoria Harbour to Friday Harbor USA is a 30 minute flight. Victoria Harbour to Seattle Harbor is 45 minutes.

The shortest land based flight I could see from Victoria (YYJ - I hate these call letters by the way) to SEA is 51 minutes.

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

Still, YVR has managed surprisingly well, all things considered. I think passengers wanting to go to China now simply fly via other destinations, and pay significantly more than pre-2020 prices, which were ridiculously low to begin with. Chinese airlines were clearly dumping cheap seats into the market.

Or, passenger used to fly via China now either fly direct or via another country. I remember my friend used to fly to SIN for less than $400 round-trip via China. Now he fly direct while paying 4-6x more...

Originally Posted by zoomer

Victoria Harbour to Friday Harbor USA is a 30 minute flight. Victoria Harbour to Seattle Harbor is 45 minutes.

The shortest land based flight I could see from Victoria (YYJ - I hate these call letters by the way) to SEA is 51 minutes.

The 30min Victoria - Friday Harbor IS a land-based flight, operates from Victoria International (YYJ) to Friday Harbor Airport (FRD)

I don't think there's a route from Victoria Harbour (YWH) to FRD or the sea-based FBS or FWP.

[zoomer]

Ah, thanks for the clarification on the Friday Harbor flight.

Here’s a overview of the 45 minutes flight to Seattle:

• Video Link

And turns out the flight is only 21 seconds long according to this video, I couldn’t see any skipped footage..

• Video Link

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I'm checking Toronto to NY places like Rochester, Buffalo, etc. as those presumably would be more convenient than driving but still quite short flights.

I've found lots of 4hr+ ones with connections, and notes that it would be, for example, 41 minutes to Rochester but that doesn't exist. If there is a single, regularly-scheduled commercial flight from Toronto to NY cities on the coast of that lake, it'd be shorter.

Back in the days of regulation, YYZ-BUF was flown multiple times daily, as was believe it or not YQG-DTW!

[hehehe]

AC is probably best suited for the lower Canada-US traffic numbers with all their sixth freedom traffic. This may be a much bigger issue for WS/PD though (not that any airline will be immune from these travel shifts).

I wonder where the extra capacity will shift to.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Pretty sure lots of Canadians had family and friends in Germany in 1938 too.

And?

That doesn’t change that people need to travel for various reasons that aren’t connected to politics.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by hehehe

AC is probably best suited for the lower Canada-US traffic numbers with all their sixth freedom traffic. This may be a much bigger issue for WS/PD though (not that any airline will be immune from these travel shifts).

I wonder where the extra capacity will shift to.

PD is the most exposed. Followed by WS. Then it’s AC. TS is the closest Canadian airline to be immune from this. They have only 2 US destinations. MCO and FLL.

The capacity will shift to domestic, Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean. AC had a decent amount of widebody transborder routes. They’ll simply revert to narrowbody and use the widebodies elsewhere.

[zahav]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

This is interesting.

Up until last year, YVR had more airlines than any other airport in Canada, mostly due to the 19 or so domestic airlines it has, significantly more than any other airport in the country. That changed in 2024, when Pearson gained 8 airlines !

YYZ now has 54 airlines serving 180+ destinations
YVR has 51 airlines serving 120 destinations
YUL has, according to ADM, 36 airlines serving 157+ destinations, (However, that info seems to be from 2023. After counting the number of airlines, it's actually 37, and most likely 158+ destinations, now that BDA is announced)
YYC has 14 airlines serving 102 destinations (this one, I asked chatGPT, but I know the airline count is correct)

Number of foreign carriers (own work):

YYZ 46 (41 non-US)
YVR 32 (26 non-US)
YUL 26 (23 non-US)
YHZ 9 (5 non-US)
YYC 8 (4 non-US)

It's wild that YHZ has jumped ahead of YYC in terms of # of foreign carriers, even if only by 1. Needless to say, YYC's relatively poor standing for # of foreign carriers is not a reflection of demand or traffic levels. Rather, it is a result of WS's dominance and building their fortress hub. They have effectively chased off foreign competition (if not deliberately, then as a consequence of WS expanding themselves and the market not being large enough to support 2+ carriers). YYC has lost a lot of international carriers for an airport its size, meanwhile WS grows and grows. Only UA and AA hold their own against WS on routes they share, and they sometimes even provide routes WS doesn't (I believe DFW and CLT are the transborder routes not served by WS but served by others, and then FRA, ZRH, and AMS only having foreign carriers). But still, I think WS dominance is an obstacle to foreign carriers. So really, YHZ being above YYC isn't so far-fetched. And then of course if you dissect the data further, you'll see only 2/9 of the foreign carriers operate widebodies to YHZ vs. 4/8 of the foreign carriers to YYC fly widebodies. YHZ can offer international flights to FSP, BDA, and KEF using small aircraft, something much more difficult from YYC.

Ultimately, the top 3 airports for foreign tails are also the top 3 for traffic overall, makes sense. Avianca is an odd one, they technically have all these separate "companies" for each country (Avianca El Salvador, Avianca Costa Rica, etc). But they are more like a combined entity than anything distinct (they share one booking system, fleet, and identical livery). Really seems more like the relationship of AC Express, Rouge, and mainline to each other, just brands or divisions of one airline but count as one. I know AF and KL are one company as well, but it's different because their brands are totally unique, they have their own individuality so are moreso just connected/coordinated at the corporate level. Day to day, they are unique airlines. Sorry just thought of it