Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[phil235]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Rail should be more reliable in these conditions than buses. We are not experiencing ice or -40. Snow clearing is an issue? Really? If there is an issue with switches, find a better solution. This is just normal Ottawa snowfall that we get most winters including another dump in two days. As I said, rail should be the most reliable transportation method under these conditions. Nothing is perfect, but failure every time we have somewhat wintery conditions is unacceptable.

But I think it was more reliable than buses, wasn't it? Half of our bus fleet is parked today. How are you measuring "more reliable"?

I'd also question whether delays in a snow storm equal "failure."

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Rail should be more reliable in these conditions than buses. We are not experiencing ice or -40. Snow clearing is an issue? Really? If there is an issue with switches, find a better solution.

Cant they, like, tent over the tracks at the switches?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by phil235

But I think it was more reliable than buses, wasn't it? Half of our bus fleet is parked today. How are you measuring "more reliable"?

Is it parked? Or poorly assigned?

I saw trunk routes on fairly well cleared arterials operating on 40-foot buses, while secondary routes, on badly cleared non-arterials, were getting stuck on poorly-cleared non-arterials.

Shouldn't they have assigned artics to run on the streets and stroads that actually get the promised priority clearing?

[phil235]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Is it parked? Or poorly assigned?

I saw trunk routes on fairly well cleared arterials operating on 40-foot buses, while secondary routes, on badly cleared non-arterials, were getting stuck on poorly-cleared non-arterials.

Shouldn't they have assigned artics to run on the streets and stroads that actually get the promised priority clearing?

I was just basing my comment on this:

https://www.ctvnews.ca/ottawa/article/oc...n-thursday-due-to-significant-snowstorm/

Not sure how many were actually parked. Coordination with snow clearing is an unatainable dream it would appear.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Is it parked? Or poorly assigned?

I saw trunk routes on fairly well cleared arterials operating on 40-foot buses, while secondary routes, on badly cleared non-arterials, were getting stuck on poorly-cleared non-arterials.

Shouldn't they have assigned artics to run on the streets and stroads that actually get the promised priority clearing?

Up to 40 cm of snow was forecasted, so OC Transpo implemented their Severe Storm Schedule today, which includes reduced usage of articulated buses.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Cant they, like, tent over the tracks at the switches?

It's really snowfall rates, not snowfall totals that were the problem with the switches today. It's not the fact 30+ cm fell, it's how fast it fell. Sure, they could build a shelter over every switch for the one time a year that you might experience this, but is it worth the effort or diminishing returns.

The trains kept running today, there were just delays. Every other method of travel, even walking was also delayed.

The fact that our trains have been derailing on sunny summer days are a huge problem in my books, but nothing about today is out of the norm for any city.

[lrt's friend]

Meanwhile, REM has normal service right now. It seems to me that if our trains would prove reliable in weather like today, we would gain public confidence. Why can't trains running every 5 minutes not be sufficient to keep the line open. It tells me that the chosen trains cannot get through an Ottawa snowstorm . What happens, if we get one of those bad winters. Are our trains going to shut down every time we get more than 15 cm? It does not build confidence when we need to send people out to shovel off the tracks. Is this still the 19th century? Even way back in those days, they had cars with circulating brushes that would keep the tracks open.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Meanwhile, REM has normal service right now. It seems to me that if our trains would prove reliable in weather like today, we would gain public confidence. Why can't trains running every 5 minutes not be sufficient to keep the line open. It tells me that the chosen trains cannot get through an Ottawa snowstorm . What happens, if we get one of those bad winters. Are our trains going to shut down every time we get more than 15 cm? It does not build confidence when we need to send people out to shovel off the tracks. Is this still the 19th century? Even way back in those days, they had cars with circulating brushes that would keep the tracks open.

REM has had 9 outages since December, including 3 in 24 hours at the beginning of February. And the CDPQ blames it all on winter conditions.

"Depuis le 1er décembre 2024, le tronçon du REM entre la Rive-Sud et la gare Centrale a connu neuf interruptions de plus de 20 minutes, dont trois pannes en 24 heures au début du mois de février.

Selon M. Arbaud, la neige oblige les équipes du REM à faire plus de maintenance, ce qui a causé des problèmes dans les dernières semaines."

https://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/213...ra%20patienter%20jusqu'%C3%A0%202027.

[lrt's friend]

Not today though when rail could be the only good choice. How many service interruptions have we had in that same time period whether planned or not?

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Not today though when rail could be the only good choice. How many service interruptions have we had in that same time period whether planned or not?

It's only fair to compare apples to apples as the 9 REM were unplanned and over 20 minutes. So only compare major interruptions, not minor 2 minute delays. I don't have that data for either system.

I can only find 3 in that same time period for the confed line. There was a broken pipe and flooding in December, a switch issue at the end of January, and today.

I can also only find 3 major unplanned for the TTC, one in each month. Although they have had a plethora of weekend shutdowns for maintenance

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Up to 40 cm of snow was forecasted, so OC Transpo implemented their Severe Storm Schedule today, which includes reduced usage of articulated buses.

I'm aware of that. But yesterday, for some inexplicable reason, they were still running artics on streets and routes where the snow clearing hadn't been done to a degree that artics could reliably run, while running 40s on well-cleared arterial routes where they wouldn't have had any problems, or not as many, which is just twisted.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

It's really snowfall rates, not snowfall totals that were the problem with the switches today.

Yes, hence tents.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Yes, hence tents.

How much should be spent to mitigate once a year events?

[ponyboycurtis]

Wouldn't there only be 3 sets of switches in use? Either terminus and to a certain extent going in and out of the yard.

[zzptichka]

Aren't those switches heated? It's 2025, a brand new system. What are we doing here?

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Aren't those switches heated? It's 2025, a brand new system. What are we doing here?

They are. And they were running trains every few minutes. But when I got up early that morning I remember the snow coming down really fast. My driveway needed to be shoveled again by the time I finished shoveling the bottom.of my driveway. All the delays and issues were in that early morning timeframe

Its similar to how a summer storm can overflow the sewers if the rainfall rate is very high. It's not the total amount, it's how fast it's falling.

Sunday looks like it might be similar, they are calling for 6cm an hour, which is a lot in a short time.

[AuxTown]

I've been ruminating on this storm. This was truly a rare event (probably once a year or two in Ottawa). Should our trains be able to withstand such an event? Common sense says yes, but clearly there are some things our rolling stock/tracks/switches just can't manage. The system has been VERY reliable and hopefully will continue to be so for the last weekend of Winterlude, but every time this happens it DOES erode public trust. Once the system is complete (Stage 2) and many more people will be able to access rail transit without a transfer I think public perception will start to improve. Now it is inconvenient on a good day and disastrous on the bad ones...

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

I've been ruminating on this storm. This was truly a rare event (probably once a year or two in Ottawa). Should our trains be able to withstand such an event? Common sense says yes, but clearly there are some things our rolling stock/tracks/switches just can't manage. The system has been VERY reliable and hopefully will continue to be so for the last weekend of Winterlude, but every time this happens it DOES erode public trust. Once the system is complete (Stage 2) and many more people will be able to access rail transit without a transfer I think public perception will start to improve. Now it is inconvenient on a good day and disastrous on the bad ones...

I think the trust problem is the core here. The very serious issues.with Line 1 have mostly been mitigated, though not totally solved. But because of that lack of trust, any interruption causes complaints, even though the confed line reliability is actually higher than most systems in North America now. Even the montreal Metro averages. 8-12 incidents per month. Ottawans have somewhat unrealistic expectations, when they travel they generally don't see the breakdowns ane interruptions that happens in other systems when they are only there for a few days, and thus perceive them as more reliable than they are.

As they say, perception is reality, even if facts say otherwise

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/...world-s-most-reliable-says-stm-1.1367912

[acottawa]

I don’t think the problem is that it didn’t work during a once per year storm when a huge number of transit users aren’t going to take it anyway. The problem is that after 5 years of operation they don’t know what doesn’t work, or what they can make work. For example, could they run a Bayview to Rideau service (relatively flat, no obvious need for a switch) that would continue to give line 2 some functionality.

[DogsWithJobs]

I have to say that these weather events are where I expected the LRT to shine and show that it is reliable when other forms are not. It is disappointing that it also can't be counted on here.

By not accounting for this in the design it means the city is accepting that they cannot facilitate economic movement around the city on snowstorm days. Funny to think that Ottawa has vied to be a major HQ for businesses if they won't even try to keep the city functioning during events that are likely to occur a few times a year.
There are costs related to the perception of unreliability that are not being accounted for.

At least remote work is a thing these days for those that don't actually need an office.