Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jonny24

You've clearly never driven through Appalachia.

A lot of Americans do tend to be pretty happy about being American even if their existence is objectively quite shitty. It's kind of part of their ethos.

Watch this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOfkpu6749w

[MolsonExport]

A lot of opinions are masquerading as facts. Nobody can state definitively that Canadians are less happy than Americans.

But if you are going to use this as a cudgel to further besmirch (the rest of) Canada, then maybe first consider some of the indicators that are out there. As flawed as they may be, they do not support the thesis that Canadians are less happy than Americans.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/happiest-countries-in-the-world

Canada is ranked 15/145, the United States is ranked 23/145. France is ranked 27/145.

I'd really like to see less Canada-bashing in this thread. Surely there are ways of extolling Quebec and its people that don't involve Canada-bashing? And don't tell me not to enter this thread if I am offended by some of the comment...I'm a native-born son of Quebec, and my opinion has just as much legitimacy as anyone else.
-Not an "enemy of Quebec"

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

A lot of opinions are masquerading as facts. Nobody can state definitively that Canadians are less happy than Americans.

But if you are going to use this as a cudgel to further besmirch (the rest of) Canada, then maybe first consider some of the indicators that are out there. As flawed as they may be, they do not support the thesis that Canadians are less happy than Americans.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/happiest-countries-in-the-world

Canada is ranked 15/145, the United States is ranked 23/145. France is ranked 27/145.

I'd really like to see less Canada-bashing in this thread. Surely there are ways of extolling Quebec and its people that don't involve Canada-bashing? And don't tell me not to enter this thread if I am offended by some of the comment...I'm a native-born son of Quebec, and my opinion has just as much legitimacy as anyone else.
-Not an "enemy of Quebec"

I don't think nor did I say that Canadians are less happy than Americans.

Tangibly though, Americans don't seem that much more unhappy. More highstrung? Definitely. But also more fun, on average.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by jonny24

You've clearly never driven through Appalachia.

Appalachia is a bit clannish but it is not a dour or depressing place. It is very friendly compared to a lot of Northern Europe.

The parts of West Virginia I have visited felt quite a bit like Pictou County or Cape Breton in Nova Scotia, parts of the Annapolis Valley. Highlanders and Borderers aren't so different.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by jonny24

You've clearly never driven through Appalachia.

Indeed. But I've met people from there.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

Appalachia is a bit clannish but it is not a dour or depressing place. It is very friendly compared to a lot of Northern Europe.

The parts of West Virginia I have visited felt quite a bit like Pictou County or Cape Breton in Nova Scotia, parts of the Annapolis Valley. Highlanders and Borderers aren't so different.

When I was 12 my mom offered me a book (The Silver Crown, or something like that) that took place in Appalachia. It was pretty fascinating. I found and reread it in my old childhood bedroom a few years ago. Still readable even if written more for children.

At the time I had no idea it took place in the Appalachians though (it was a French translation, "La couronne d'argent"), I thought it was somewhere in some French wildernesses.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

You're shattering their fantasies, you realize that? They somehow pictured a dream life that they could perhaps aspire to, and now you're just another Jean-Pierre shivering in sub-zero temperatures in Brossard. What a disappointment. This thread has suddenly lost 80% of its Anglo readership.

The important thing is, I could be there if I wanted. (If I leave right now, I’ll be there late tomorrow evening.) And yes, it’s happened in the past that I would post on SSP from the beach. Just not right now

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Unhappy people? I've never met any unhappy person in the US. In France you meet a lot. What's great about the US is the positivity of people, even when they are in dire straits.

Lol, there's something trendy about being overly pessimistic and often grumpy in our country.
When you take things positively and say tomorrow will be better than today, many French people tend to think you're kind of boring and dumb. Complaints are usually more interesting to them, which is annoying, I agree.

Otherwise, things like big homes with luxury amenities are not exclusively American, eh.
In France, better-off people have large homes too. Often historic houses built in solid stone that you won't find in America. Their homes are designed in a different way and material, most often wooden, which can be very nice too, granted.

Also, annoying behavior like mean social jealousy or such things is not exclusively French either. I guess you'd find it anywhere in the world, including the US. I know because I saw a bit of that in their country too.
That's life. Sometimes, people feel frustrated because they don't take things easy enough.

You're being a little moody and harsh to your own people, Brisavoine. Did anybody over here upset you lately?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

The important thing is, I could be there if I wanted. (If I leave right now, I’ll be there late tomorrow evening.) And yes, it’s happened in the past that I would post on SSP from the beach. Just not right now

Dunno how you can reach southern Florida in just 2 days. It's the same distance as Paris-Agadir, and even discounting the Strait of Gibraltar, you cannot drive there in 2 days unless you don't sleep at night and drive all the time, which is crazy. Normally it's 3 days:
- day 1: Paris-northern Spain
- day 2: northern Spain-Algeciras
- day 3: Strait of Gibraltar and Ceuta-Agadir (which is quite long for just one day)

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I'd really like to see less Canada-bashing in this thread. Surely there are ways of extolling Quebec and its people that don't involve Canada-bashing?

The irony.

Canadians: "What defines us is not being American."

Quebecers: "What defines us is not being Canadian."

This thread teaches me a lot more about France and the rest of Canada than it does about Quebec.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

This thread teaches me a lot more about France and the rest of Canada than it does about Quebec.

It's called "définir en creux" in French.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

It's called "définir en creux" in French.

Thanks for the French lesson. Shall we go back go discussing how you think the Japanese and Koreans should accept Chinese Communist hegemony as per your opinion and how you think that model should apply to Quebec given American threats?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Thanks for the French lesson.

You're welcome.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

A lot of opinions are masquerading as facts. Nobody can state definitively that Canadians are less happy than Americans.

But if you are going to use this as a cudgel to further besmirch (the rest of) Canada, then maybe first consider some of the indicators that are out there. As flawed as they may be, they do not support the thesis that Canadians are less happy than Americans.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/happiest-countries-in-the-world

Canada is ranked 15/145, the United States is ranked 23/145. France is ranked 27/145.

I'd really like to see less Canada-bashing in this thread. Surely there are ways of extolling Quebec and its people that don't involve Canada-bashing? And don't tell me not to enter this thread if I am offended by some of the comment...I'm a native-born son of Quebec, and my opinion has just as much legitimacy as anyone else.
-Not an "enemy of Quebec"

It's unfortunate and I wish things weren't like that, but it's a sad reality that Canada (especially the federal Canadian state) is too often seen as a foil to Quebec's aspirations and needs. It ranges from Ottawa and the other provinces repatriating the Constitution in 1982 (reducing Quebec's powers) without its consent, to the current federal support of court challenges seeking to invalidate Bill 21 (secularism). And who knows, maybe Bill 96 on language in the near future as well?

If you look at another model multinational state like Switzerland, I don't believe that the minority Suisses romands (francophones) or Ticinese (italophones) see the federal Swiss state as a nemesis entity for them.

I wish we were more like them.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Dunno how you can reach southern Florida in just 2 days. It's the same distance as Paris-Agadir, and even discounting the Strait of Gibraltar, you cannot drive there in 2 days unless you don't sleep at night and drive all the time, which is crazy. Normally it's 3 days:
- day 1: Paris-northern Spain
- day 2: northern Spain-Algeciras
- day 3: Strait of Gibraltar and Ceuta-Agadir (which is quite long for just one day)

I’m in the Cocoa/Rockledge area (“Space Coast”), which is 21.5 hours from Montreal according to any map app.

I leave in the morning, not even that early, take my favorite slightly-more-inland route that has zero tolls and no big city except Charlotte (never any traffic there unlike the NYC to DC part), with one stop halfway to sleep a nice 8 hours in the car in some rest area on the side of the interstate, and I’m there the next evening, not even that late.

I always stop for the night in the PA-MD-WV-VA area, there’s three Welcome Centers in a row there (when crossing state lines on major interstates) in each direction. If I’m somewhat tired I’ll stop at the first one, if not I’ll continue a bit.

I’ve never done the drive from Paris to Agadir obviously, but I’d be surprised if it were as easy/comfortable.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

I’m in the Cocoa/Rockledge area (“Space Coast”), which is 21.5 hours from Montreal according to any map app.

I leave in the morning, not even that early, take my favorite slightly-more-inland route that has zero tolls and no big city except Charlotte (never any traffic there unlike the NYC to DC part), with one stop halfway to sleep a nice 8 hours in the car in some rest area on the side of the interstate, and I’m there the next evening, not even that late.

I always stop for the night in the PA-MD-WV-VA area, there’s three Welcome Centers in a row there (when crossing state lines on major interstates) in each direction. If I’m somewhat tired I’ll stop at the first one, if not I’ll continue a bit.

I’ve never done the drive from Paris to Agadir obviously, but I’d be surprised if it were as easy/comfortable.

When the kids were young we went to the Orlando area a few times. From Gatineau it's 2200-2300 km.

We'd leave around 7 am and try to get down to the area on the border between southern Virginia and northern North Carolina. Generally around 8 or 9 pm. Try to get 1200 km or so done in the first day.

Grab a hotel for the night. The only disadvantage is there are sometimes dry counties and so no wine even in Italian restaurants!

Then about 1000 km the next day. You leave early and you are at your Florida destination for dinner.

Expressways all the way, and as you say if you stay more inland traffic delays are very rare.

No ferries of course. Paris-Agadir sounds like a big ordeal compared to that.

Of course, some people do it in three days with two overnight stops. About 700-800 km per day.

That's advantageous if you're staying for a longer period in Florida. But if it's a shorter stay it eats too much into your time down there. Why spend extra time in a hotel room at the Hampton Inn next to the highway in Mount Airy NC that you could spend on the beach at Daytona?

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's unfortunate and I wish things weren't like that, but it's a sad reality that Canada (especially the federal Canadian state) is too often seen as a foil to Quebec's aspirations and needs. It ranges from Ottawa and the other provinces repatriating the Constitution in 1982 (reducing Quebec's powers) without its consent, to the current federal support of court challenges seeking to invalidate Bill 21 (secularism). And who knows, maybe Bill 96 on language in the near future as well?

If you look at another model multinational state like Switzerland, I don't believe that the minority Suisses romands (francophones) or Ticinese (italophones) see the federal Swiss state as a nemesis entity for them.

I wish we were more like them.

The issue is that Trudeau Senior's vision for Quebec and the confederation was clearly the wrong one that is detrimental to Canadian unity, and now we have to go through the long and difficult process to rectify it.

[le calmar]

Originally Posted by lio45

I leave in the morning, not even that early, take my favorite slightly-more-inland route that has zero tolls and no big city except Charlotte (never any traffic there unlike the NYC to DC part

I-81/I-77? That’s my usual route too. It’s relaxing compared to I-95 and the scenery is nice. The route is almost a no brainer coming from Ottawa though. I-95 is just way too crowded.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

The issue is that Trudeau Senior's vision for Quebec and the confederation was clearly the wrong one that is detrimental to Canadian unity, and now we have to go through the long and difficult process to rectify it.

Can we, though?

The entire notion seems to be on the verge of ideological and political bankruptcy.

It's actually a bit alarming how if we end up with a Quebec Referendum III in a few years, the federalist argument could largely be couched in "the devil you know" terms.

Now, the current trade war with the Americans could potentially give a bit more weight to the idea that being in the larger Canada shields Quebec from the The Big Bad USA, but I don't think we can be sure right now that that is even going to be the case.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

I’ve never done the drive from Paris to Agadir obviously, but I’d be surprised if it were as easy/comfortable.

You can drive faster (130 km/h in France, 120 km/h in Spain and Morocco), and you have rest areas everywhere (plus the quality of the road surface is far better than US interstate freeways), but tolls are very expensive. Paris-Algeciras (Strait of Gibraltar) costs 146.5 Canadian dollars in tolls on the autoroutes. And then add 41.5 Canadian dollars for the tolls in Morocco from Ceuta to Agadir.

Anyway, here it's not recommended to drive more than 2 hours without resting for at least 30 minutes. I know few people who would drive 12 hours in a row, especially 2 straight days.

Gas also currently costs 2.65 Canadian dollars per liter in France, 2.34 Canadian dollars per liter in Spain, and 1.93 Canadian dollar per liter in Morocco.

It's cheaper and faster to fly really.