Western Expresso

[Hecate]

Iran has publicly stated they would support Canada! They’d said they’d support Panama and Greenland too!

[bodaggin]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Iran has publicly stated they would support Canada! They’d said they’d support Panama and Greenland too!

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[WildCake]

I guess I'll chime in

The US is using the same playbook the Russian did in advance of their annexation of Crimea and later ground invasion of the whole country. Start portraying us in a negative light on media, diminishing our sovereignty, and promoting the idea of Canada being part of the US. Using us booing the anthems to make us look bad when it's in response to their economic attacks.

The Russians did this and it has allowed their populace to easily vilify the Ukrainians despite them looking like them physically and speaking very similar languages. This wasn't Russia invading an African or Eastern/Southeast Asian country where it is easier to do a us vs them propaganda based on how the people look and speak. This was them invading a neighbour.

Second piece is that I think we'd be on our own in the event of an invasion. NATO already leans a lot on the US for major decision making, and I would be hard pressed to believe the alliance would survive the US leaving. Likewise, even if there is a response beyond economic sanctions and harsh words at press releases, European aid (military or humanitarian) would be hard pressed to arrive here because they have an ocean to cross, and the US could easily defend the coasts first to make such support even more challenging to access.

[bodaggin]

Spot on Wildcake.

FYI. NATO vs USA navy numbers here. Full military numbers linked. NATO still beats out USA in every branch except air force.

https://armedforces.eu/compare/country_USA_vs_NATO_without_USA

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by bodaggin

Spot on Wildcake.

FYI. NATO vs USA navy numbers here. Full military numbers linked. NATO still beats out USA in every branch except air force.

https://armedforces.eu/compare/country_USA_vs_NATO_without_USA

We can't resist militarily no matter what we do. All we can do is get to 2%-2.75% spending and rearm. Any incursion by the Americans would have to be dealt with irregularly, that's the only way it happens.

[bodaggin]

On the money side, Canada has options there too. The collective wealth of the country is somewhere between $10T and $15T. This includes all pensions, banks, insurance, etc. That I mentioned earlier.

A one-time war tax of 10% on these assets would raise nearly $1.5 trillion, on the spot. That's 50% more than USA's military budget. That's 50x higher than our current annual military spending.

That can buy an unfathomable amount of gear and assistance. And of course, it can fund a juicy Orangeman bounty too. USA has the most heavily armed citizens after all. They just need a capitalist push.

So we have options. Truly strong ones. No matter what the self-hating counter propaganda says. The options are draconian. But so is annexation or invasion. But we need to repatriate those $4T of USA assets ASAP. Otherwise, it's game over.

[1ajs]

how the eff did we go from chill to this is so bizzar

[The Jabroni]

These are bizarre times.

God forbid, if we are in a similar situation like Ukraine before Crimea and Donbas got invaded by Russia, this could be it.

America could easily take over Western Canada. Danielle Smith is easily a collaborator and will literally hand over Alberta to the USA overnight, which would then virtually cut off BC from the rest of Canada.

BC would then be under siege, and eventually the two major Pacific ports of Canada would fall. Saskatchewan would easily be taken over. Winnipeg would also be a major target as it is the main transportation hub to literally anywhere in North America, including the Arctic. We also have a major target that is a threat to everybody living in Winnipeg, which of course is the Level 4 virology lab, should the Americans decide to get dirty.

The obvious military targets would be 17 Wing, which houses the 1 Canadian Air Division and the Canadian NORAD region, all of which is the Command and Control for the entire RCAF in Canada and throughout the world.

The most resistance the Americans would face by Canadians would be in Ontario, especially southern Ontario being the most populous part of Canada.

Unless we can economically strike first from the constant tariff threats, along with some individuals who could ruin it for everybody else in Canada (the aforementioned Danielle Smith, along with Scott Moe and Doug Ford), Canada could become the next Ukraine out of all of this. If we are truly alone on this, then now would be a good time to influence the other Americans who didn't vote for Donnie, and resist the aggressive changes that are happening in Washington.

[pspeid]

Yikes. What a horrible topic to discuss, but these are the times we live in. Since this is the topic du jour and this is a public opinion forum, here's my two cents (probably worth less than that, but whatever).

I have no doubt Orange Doofus and his followers are delighting themselves in fantasies of Imperial glory. Their combination of "we don't need anybody" and "they'll do what we say or we'll hurt them" attitudes is the perfect amalgam of the traditional American "rugged individual" myth and the MAGA belief that compromise with anyone is equal to loss & humiliation.

However, there's an old dictum that states "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". The Orange Degenerate is making enemies everywhere, within his country and without. It seems he can't wait to start the next attack on any country or organization he has an issue with, and he seems to have issues with most of them.

IF the convicted felon suggested a military takeover of Canada, I'm sure he'd have all kinds of red-capped drunkards cheering him on, but there are also many in the States, including the U.S. military, who don't go along with his delusions.

There has to be a breaking point. If Canada were militarily threatened as some here have conjectured, I don't doubt we'd have our share of Quislings (named accurately by The Jabroni) who couldn't wait to capitulate. However, there would also be a world of U.S. antagonists who would love to "assist" Canada in taking action against the States. Some of these wouldn't be Canada's friends, and the price for working with them would be high, but faced with a terror threat from south of the border, I have no doubt some people would be happy to make a deal with the devil to stop an American takeover.

Bleak thoughts, and I doubt it'll ever come to that, but then again, Doofus likes to promote bleak thoughts.

[bodaggin]

Good posts. Glad to see everyone has a similar read of this.

Here's a great 5 minute clip with a retired general yesterday. Straight to the point. No bullshit. Need more military voices like this, treating it as the national security threat that it is. This dude needs to be involved in Canada's response, full stop. He's shrewd AF.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUGvBG1Rq3I

[OTA in Winnipeg]

Never, ever thought I'd see this conversation. Remarkable times we live in.

[bomberjet]

Nothing will happen. It's all a big scam by orange guy to rob the US blind. They will get tired of Elmo eventually.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Nothing will happen. It's all a big scam by orange guy to rob the US blind. They will get tired of Elmo eventually.

It's most likely bluster but there's a non-zero chance it isn't. We should still be refocusing government focus onto our defence obligations we've been neglecting for 50 years.

[bodaggin]

FactaNV how many USA troops are needed to hold the prairies? (MB/SK/AB)

Total population = ~7 million
Urban = 5.5 million
Rural = 1.6 million

Google says troop ratios to hold occupation are one per 50 to 100 population. Is that accurate? If so, I'm getting 70,000 to 140,000 USA troops required to hold. USA regular force troop numbers are about 650k across marines (177k) and army (473k). That excludes Navy and Airforce for obvious occupation reasons. So I'm getting about 10-20% of applicable USA troops to hold the prairies. Accurate?

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

It's most likely bluster but there's a non-zero chance it isn't. We should still be refocusing government focus onto our defence obligations we've been neglecting for 50 years.

Oh, absolutely. Both Liberal and Conservative governments have cut military spending for years. Sadly, there have also been some Canadians who have thought "we don't have to spend the $$, the Americans will take care of us". Lots of promises and tributes to the great work the forces do, but little or no $$.

[bodaggin]

Also of note. Civilian firearm ownership per person. Canada is higher than most people think, 7th worldwide. 2017 numbers though. Not sure how much the recent gun grabs affected this.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by bodaggin

FactaNV how many USA troops are needed to hold the prairies? (MB/SK/AB)

Total population = ~7 million
Urban = 5.5 million
Rural = 1.6 million

Google says troop ratios to hold occupation are one per 50 to 100 population. Is that accurate? If so, I'm getting 70,000 to 140,000 USA troops required to hold. USA regular force troop numbers are about 650k across marines (177k) and army (473k). That excludes Navy and Airforce for obvious occupation reasons. So I'm getting about 10-20% of applicable USA troops to hold the prairies. Accurate?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/j...sia-military-options-in-ukraine-invasion

This article cited a source saying 1:20 with counter insurgency. They estimated Russia would have needed at least 325000 soldiers to hold Ukraine's major cities (incl. Kyiv at 3 million inhabitants needing at least 150k).

Canada's top 10 cities by pop account for 18 million inhabitants spread across a continent. To hold these (assuming Canadians end up forming resistance bands after an invasion wipes out Canada's military), they'd need 900 000 soldiers, which is pretty close to their entire military numbers at the moment.

This Macleans opinion piece goes on some detail as to how it wouldn't be feasible:

https://macleans.ca/society/canada-51st-state-america/

The US is good at battles and could easily come and lay claim over a territory, but much like how Russia is struggling against a much smaller country, the US would have one hell of a time holding anything.

Holding a territory means uprooting the entire fabric of a given society and replacing it with your own, which the military is completely unequipped to do and given their other social institutions are being gutted by their leadership (education, health, justice), they won't have the civilian resources to expand these institutions into Canada

Canadians would also see a military invasion as a challenge to their independence and US soldiers (at least a good bunch of them) would be questioning their very presence there and would likely have low morale. Likewise, the US would certainly need a sizeable part of their military to manage social unrest in their own population centres as a result of this.

[cllew]

I wonder if any NATO countries would come to Canada's aid if there was a US military invasion?

[OTA in Winnipeg]

^good fucking question

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by cllew

I wonder if any NATO countries would come to Canada's aid if there was a US military invasion?

Given our reputation in the world just in the 20th Century alone, certain countries could come out and return the favour.

Think of it this way. Historically, we've been a peacekeeping nation. This was already brought up numerous times with Canadian leadership very recently, but in wars past, we fought against fascism, and liberated countries from such things. The Netherlands, France, and Belgium comes to mind where they appreciated Canadians very much. We fought alongside the Americans, the British, the French, the Australians, and the New Zealanders. We have sacred resting places in France, Netherlands, and Belgium for our fallen soldiers. Whenever it's Remembrance Day or Victory in Europe Day, the Europeans remembered the Canadians who fought and sacrificed themselves for freedom. None of us can speak for them, but when the tables have turned, and it seems to be turning right now, the countries we helped in years past would return the favour in the time of need.

Of course, I'm just drawing this up in my head. I seriously hope it doesn't come down to what we are talking about with the worst case scenario, but if we have to square up and fight, we can and we will, whether the rest of the world will join us or not.