CF Pacific Centre Developments - Page 214

whatnext · #**4261** Posted **Jan 29, 2025, 7:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Changing City

No they're not. All CF have done is decide to demolish the existing tower down to the 5th floor, and they told Daily Hive they're going to replace it. “Cadillac Fairview’s plans for the new tower are aimed at bringing exciting uses to the centre, which would continue to include a hospitality offering. Cadillac Fairview looks forward to sharing more details about these transformative redevelopment projects in the future.”

We don't know why they decided to demolish the 1976 structure. We know it has low ceilings by contemporary standards, and we know demolition will require asbestos abatement. We can assume it isn't to current seismic code.

We don't know what CF are planning to replace it with, and they certainly haven't indicated who any future hotel would be operated by.

I can't see them building an office tower given the current climate and isn't residential forbidden in that area of the CBD?

jollyburger · #**4262** Posted **Jan 29, 2025, 7:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext

I can't see them building an office tower given the current climate and isn't residential forbidden in that area of the CBD?

I mean the tower across the street has residential so it's not that forbidden. If they rezone with the hotel downstairs it would be no different to Trump Tower, Shangri-La.

Changing City · #**4263** Posted **Jan 29, 2025, 7:28 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by whatnext

I can't see them building an office tower given the current climate and isn't residential forbidden in that area of the CBD?

The current zoning doesn't allow residential use. City Council can approve, or refuse, a rezoning to permit any use.

officedweller · #**4264** Posted **Jan 29, 2025, 10:51 PM**

Notice sent around the office (notwithstanding the January 15th permit issuance date posted by Jollyburger above).

(pretty much the same vague statement that Changing City posted above, but does mention "world class", "landmark", "pre-eminent" and "first class".) I'm not sure if residential use is an "exciting use". An observation deck (if high enough) or a restaurant and entertainment complex at the top would be "exciting", but somehow, I doubt that'll happen (although the cancelled renovation project did have a rooftop restaurant).

Quote:

DATE: January 24, 2025

ATTENTION: All Office Tenants - Pacific Centre and RBC Place

WHAT: Update on Former Hotel

Cadillac Fairview is proud of its legacy of owning and operating the best-in-class properties in all of the communities it serves. As part of that legacy, Cadillac Fairview is committed to ensuring that CF Pacific Centre remains the pre-eminent destination of choice in Vancouver for our clients, customers, and visitors alike.

Part of the next phase in CF Pacific Centre’s evolution is focused on the replacement of the former 25-storey hotel structure with a new world class tower, creating a landmark in the heart of downtown Vancouver. Our plans for the new tower are aimed at bringing exciting uses to the centre, which would continue to include a hospitality offering that complements our first-class office complex and shopping centre.

As part of this evolution, CF recently made an application to the City of Vancouver for approval to demolish a portion of the existing hotel structure. Approval of this application is pending and we look forward to sharing further details of our exciting plans for the new tower as they evolve.
In the meantime, should you have any questions, please do not hesitate to contact me directly by email to [XXXXX].

[XXXXX]
General Manager, Pacific Centre and RBC Place
The Cadillac Fairview Corporation Limited

s211 · #**4265** Posted **Feb 4, 2025, 7:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by officedweller

Notice sent around the office (notwithstanding the January 15th permit issuance date posted by Jollyburger above).

(pretty much the same vague statement that Changing City posted above, but does mention "world class", "landmark", "pre-eminent" and "first class".) I'm not sure if residential use is an "exciting use". An observation deck (if high enough) or a restaurant and entertainment complex at the top would be "exciting", but somehow, I doubt that'll happen (although the cancelled renovation project did have a rooftop restaurant).

In my head, I'm thinking a rather Toronto-like tower is what the scheme will look like: largely institutional and not daring. I'd be really happy to be proved wrong though!

urbanight93 · #**4266** Posted **Feb 4, 2025, 8:05 PM**

Honestly an international style tower would work nicely here given the CBD tower stock.

No need to reinvent the wheel.

That said, I don't have too much faith in CF and their taste given the truly awful Simpson Tower reclad in Toronto. We mayhave avoided something similar since they're demolishing the old 4S.

https://www.canadianarchitect.com/recladding-parkin-simpson-tower/

officedweller · #**4267** Posted **Feb 4, 2025, 9:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanight93

Honestly an international style tower would work nicely here given the CBD tower stock.

No need to reinvent the wheel.

That said, I don't have too much faith in CF and their taste given the truly awful Simpson Tower reclad in Toronto. We mayhave avoided something similar since they're demolishing the old 4S.

I think that reclad was proposed and designed before Cadillac Fairview bought the former Simpson's Building to add to Toronto Eaton Centre - but they did not change the plans (and it actually looks worse than that rendering).
I do agree that the Four Seasons reclad would have probably been similar based on the renderings.
I agree we probably dodged a bullet on this one.

Cadillac Fairview did retain Adrian Smith + Gordon Gill Architecture to design the crystal tower at Waterfront Station that was rejected by the city.
Maybe we'll get a crystal tower across the street from Bing Thom's proposed crystal tower location?
CF also built the somewhat ugly new TD Tower in Toronto with the gaping orifices.

LeftCoaster · #**4268** Posted **Feb 4, 2025, 10:19 PM**

Ugly TD tower in Toronto?

She's a beaut, especially in person, also designed by AS+GG.

And yes the Simpson reclad was entirely designed, constructed and managed by 3rd party. To my knowledge CF had nothing to do with it, and even continues to not manage the building.

As for why a 4 start hotel? Well I believe CF was proposing a 5 star hotel, not 4. And presumably the justification is this is an extremely expensive part of town to both buy land and build, so a 4-5 star is about the only level you could successfully underwrite.

officedweller · #**4269** Posted **Feb 4, 2025, 11:00 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Ugly TD tower in Toronto?

She's a beaut, especially in person, also designed by AS+GG.

I don't like the openings, and the lights are a bit gaudy (but I have not seen it in person).

https://www.ctvnews.ca/toronto/article/n...ng-up-mixed-reactions-from-torontonians/

LeftCoaster · #**4270** Posted **Feb 4, 2025, 11:04 PM**

Well they were originally supposed to be wind turbines.... but cost and bird issues got in the way of that.

I think it looks great, especially the details. One of those towers that gets better the closer you get:

https://www.harmoninc.com/project/160-front-street/

officedweller · #**4271** Posted **Feb 4, 2025, 11:10 PM**

Details look good, but the overall effect isn't as nice as I expected.

bb1510 · #**4272** Posted **Feb 5, 2025, 2:45 AM**

Cadillac Fairview also used KPF for the Ritz Carlton Toronto (albeit generic looking), but it shows they're willing to international firms

urbanight93 · #**4273** Posted **Feb 5, 2025, 5:43 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by officedweller

I think that reclad was proposed and designed before Cadillac Fairview bought the former Simpson's Building to add to Toronto Eaton Centre - but they did not change the plans (and it actually looks worse than that rendering).
I do agree that the Four Seasons reclad would have probably been similar based on the renderings.
I agree we probably dodged a bullet on this one.

Cadillac Fairview did retain Adrian Smith + Gordon Gill Architecture to design the crystal tower at Waterfront Station that was rejected by the city.
Maybe we'll get a crystal tower across the street from Bing Thom's proposed crystal tower location?
CF also built the somewhat ugly new TD Tower in Toronto with the gaping orifices.

Interesting, thanks for the added context. I lived near the Simpson Tower and seeing the final result all the time was painful and I always blamed CF for it.

I hope they do onboard an international firm for this development and go tall, it’s a great location for a striking and stand out building.

In terms of the TD HQ, I love the building and its zany flourishes (openings…). It’s daring and reminds me of the funky architecture in the City of London. I wouldn’t mind something bold here as long as it’s well executed.

jollyburger · #**4274** Posted **Feb 6, 2025, 4:46 AM**

The Nordstroms interior demolition got approved on Jan 29

https://plposweb.vancouver.ca/Public/Default.aspx?PossePresentation=Guest&PosseObjectId=248444762

Capitol Hill · #**4275** Posted **Feb 6, 2025, 3:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollyburger

The Nordstroms interior demolition got approved on Jan 29

https://plposweb.vancouver.ca/Public/Default.aspx?PossePresentation=Guest&PosseObjectId=248444762

My reading of that indicates that the escalators will remain?

jollyburger · #**4276** Posted **Feb 6, 2025, 5:08 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capitol Hill

My reading of that indicates that the escalators will remain?

I guess it depends on how many tenants are going in and to optimize the layout.

officedweller · #**4277** Posted **Feb 7, 2025, 12:47 AM**

I think it would be cool if they have a central atrium for circulation, rather than chopping it up with separate entrances from the outside.
I think it still could be swing space for Four Seasons demolition relocations.

jollyburger · #**4278** Posted **Feb 14, 2025, 2:42 AM**

Quote:

Cadillac Fairview & IMCO Looking To Sell Twin Downtown Vancouver Office Towers

The two towers are located at 700 West Pender Street and 750 West Pender Street in the heart of downtown Vancouver, and make up the entire block between Howe Street and Granville Street.

Both towers rise 16 storeys, with 700 West Pender housing 141,772 sq. ft of Class B office space and 750 West Pender housing 141,758 sq. ft, for a combined 283,530 sq. ft., according to Cadillac Fairview's corporate website.

The towers were originally constructed in 1973, according to BC Assessment, which values the two towers — a single 0.716-acre parcel with a legal address of 700 West Pender Street — at $146,174,000 in a valuation dated to July 1, 2024. The valuation is approximately a 9% decrease from the previous assessed value of $160,187,000.

https://storeys.com/cadillac-fairview-700-west-pender-vancouver/

officedweller · #**4279** Posted **Feb 14, 2025, 2:54 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollyburger

https://storeys.com/cadillac-fairview-700-west-pender-vancouver/

That's interesting, because it's contiguous with Pacific Centre (although you have to go through Holt Renfrew).
So any expansion of Pacific Centre will be focussed on the Nordstrom and Four Seasons sites and not expanding northwards.

officedweller · #**4280** Posted **Feb 22, 2025, 1:29 AM**

Sent around the office today: