CF Pacific Centre Developments

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by bb1510

I remembered incorrectly - they don't have a shower curtain but do have a shower/tub combo; these were how the bathrooms looked like, in an executive jr suite

That's not what you expect from a typical Four Seasons property, especially a corporately owned one, which is typically supposed to be a flagship property. The Park Hyatt in NY is an example of a corporately owned property and it's built to quite a high end standard

I assume a lot has to do with the Park Hyatt being 100% owned versus a leased building like Four Seasons?

[bb1510]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I assume a lot has to do with the Park Hyatt being 100% owned versus a leased building like Four Seasons?

Probably, but in any case, if you showed someone pictures of those bathrooms and asked them what hotel flag it belonged to, I doubt anyone would say it's from a Four Seasons property

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by bb1510

Probably, but in any case, if you showed someone pictures of those bathrooms and asked them what hotel flag it belonged to, I doubt anyone would say it's from a Four Seasons property

Very little changes to the bathrooms since the 70s and 80s. We took over two rooms for our grad parties in the 80s ( got kicked out at 3am ) but we filled one of those tubs with ice and booze. Also had a few friends and family stay there over the years. Absolutely unacceptable bathroom for a hotel with a brand like Four Seasons. I also recall the ceilings being very low which obviously there'd be no way to solve that with renovations.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by bb1510

I remembered incorrectly - they don't have a shower curtain but do have a shower/tub combo; these were how the bathrooms looked like, in an executive jr suite


That's not what you expect from a typical Four Seasons property, especially a corporately owned one, which is typically supposed to be a flagship property. The Park Hyatt in NY is an example of a corporately owned property and it's built to quite a high end standard

Yes, it’s definitely not up to standard. Still, it’s a shame CF couldn’t just have turned it over to a 3 star operator so the rooms were available for FIFA next year.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by urbanight93

The room quality review rating is 6/10 ...

Nit-picking here are we?

You forgot to mention that the average rating is 8.8/10, derived from the following:
Facilities: 8.5/10
Cleanliness: 9.0/10
Service: 9.0/10


As for the room, what do you expect from an older building owned by CF?

Originally Posted by bb1510

Yeah, very.

A shower/tub combo with a shower curtain is a no-go for a 5 star/diamond property, let alone a Four Seasons. It would be okay as a Westin or a Sheraton

Funny you mention that, but compared to real 4 or 5-star hotels around the world, many of the highly-rated Vancouver hotels are 3-star tops, considering how much a visitor pays to stay there. If hotel rating agencies want to name it 5-star, it's their prerogative, but then again, North American standards are usually set at a lower standard.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Yes, it’s definitely not up to standard. Still, it’s a shame CF couldn’t just have turned it over to a 3 star operator so the rooms were available for FIFA next year.

It's analogous to the overly-keen Icarus who flew too close to the sun, fell and finally drowned in the sea.

You don't just kill off a Golden goose while it is making you money.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Vin

It's analogous to the overly-keen Icarus who flew too close to the sun, fell and finally drowned in the sea.

You don't just kill off a Golden goose while it is making you money.

They weren't making close to whatever imaginary number you think the Four Seasons property was producing.

[bb1510]

Originally Posted by Vin

Funny you mention that, but compared to real 4 or 5-star hotels around the world, many of the highly-rated Vancouver hotels are 3-star tops, considering how much a visitor pays to stay there. If hotel rating agencies want to name it 5-star, it's their prerogative, but then again, North American standards are usually set at a lower standard.

I don’t disagree, but what we saw here was comparable to a Hampton Inn’s bathroom (with the built in toilet roll holder in the vanity counter). If you look at the majority of Four Seasons properties around North America, most have decently high end bathrooms with a separate tub and shower. The only exceptions were ones in Texas such as the ones in Austin or Houston, not to mention the one here in Vancouver, but the former two were at least renovated recently

Also, if you look at any new build or conversions for any of the major brands, even for a 4.5 star property will require a separated water closet, either by a glass partition or a door in the brand standards

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Personally I think DH misread a press release and published that story and tried to weasel out of it by claiming it was a retraction.

Bingo

[LeftCoaster]

The hotel was often referred to tongue in cheek in the industry as the 3 seasons. It was one of the worst performing 4 seasons in the chain and that was despite a hot hotel industry in Vancouver.

Also, the fact that some in here are referring to what rent a hotel pays to the landlord as the basis of lost revenue going forward just shows how completely ignorant they are of the hospitality industry and how hotels are managed in the 21st century.

But that's not surprise now is it?

[jollyburger]

Seems like the demo permit for the hotel was issued January 15

https://plposweb.vancouver.ca/Public/Default.aspx?PossePresentation=Guest&PosseObjectId=247446429

They're doing a field review of the Nordstroms internal demo tomorrow.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

The hotel was often referred to tongue in cheek in the industry as the 3 seasons. It was one of the worst performing 4 seasons in the chain and that was despite a hot hotel industry in Vancouver.

Also, the fact that some in here are referring to what rent a hotel pays to the landlord as the basis of lost revenue going forward just shows how completely ignorant they are of the hospitality industry and how hotels are managed in the 21st century.

But that's not surprise now is it?

Can you share why there is such an insistence on having a 4 star property there?

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Can you share why there is such an insistence on having a 4 star property there?

Cadillac Fairview moved the mall to the upper end of the market
(Nordstrom <-> Holt Renbrew)
Not sure if that still holds or not after Nordstrom's closure.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Cadillac Fairview moved the mall to the upper end of the market
(Nordstrom <-> Holt Renbrew)
Not sure if that still holds or not after Nordstrom's closure.

Meh, it seems like a pretty standard list of mall tenants. A lot of the so-called “luxury” retailers are on Alberni, not in the mall. It seems foolish to insist that a solid convention style hotel can’t go in there.

[jollyburger]

I mean charging more money for rooms means more revenue.. Seems kind of obvious.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Meh, it seems like a pretty standard list of mall tenants. A lot of the so-called “luxury” retailers are on Alberni, not in the mall. It seems foolish to insist that a solid convention style hotel can’t go in there.

That's elitist! What's wrong with a Motel 6?

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Changing City

That's elitist! What's wrong with a Motel 6?

CF are the ones being elitist. There’s no reason it couldn’t be a W, or Andaz. Who do they think is going to go there, Ritz Carlton?

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Meh, it seems like a pretty standard list of mall tenants. A lot of the so-called “luxury” retailers are on Alberni, not in the mall. It seems foolish to insist that a solid convention style hotel can’t go in there.

More upper middle - not "luxury".
But a bunch have closed (not necessarily forced out, but business failures, mergers, too):
- Massimo Dutti
- Ted Baker
- Disney Store
- La Senza
- Bench
- Microsoft
- Geox
(exceptions: Fido, Rogers, Telus & Best Buy Mobile).

Older stores that moved out or failed due to changing marketplace:
Shoppers Drug Mart moved across the street.
Dated "mall" stores like Suzy Shier, Fairweather, Reitmans, Bootlegger, Tip Top, Peoples,
Footlocker, Champs, EB Games, Gamestop, Gap, American Eagle, House of Knives, Hallmark, ...

[RedArbutus]

Originally Posted by whatnext

CF are the ones being elitist. There’s no reason it couldn’t be a W, or Andaz. Who do they think is going to go there, Ritz Carlton?

That's exactly what was rumored for years, that CF in negotiations with Ritz. Not happening now I guess.

A W would be perfectly fine IMHO.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by whatnext

CF are the ones being elitist. There’s no reason it couldn’t be a W, or Andaz. Who do they think is going to go there, Ritz Carlton?

No they're not. All CF have done is decide to demolish the existing tower down to the 5th floor, and they told Daily Hive they're going to replace it. “Cadillac Fairview’s plans for the new tower are aimed at bringing exciting uses to the centre, which would continue to include a hospitality offering. Cadillac Fairview looks forward to sharing more details about these transformative redevelopment projects in the future.”

We don't know why they decided to demolish the 1976 structure. We know it has low ceilings by contemporary standards, and we know demolition will require asbestos abatement. We can assume it isn't to current seismic code.

We don't know what CF are planning to replace it with, and they certainly haven't indicated who any future hotel would be operated by.