YVR & Sea Island Developments Discussion II

[nname]

Originally Posted by nname

There's no room for 3x weekly for April though, unless they are shortening BKK season, which seems unlikely as the route just increase to daily for March.

Or, maybe YVR will be keeping a couple of widebody a month longer to double up the SIN/BKK rotation, before it get send back East for summer TATL service

Jan-Mar schedule:
1 each PVG, PEK, NRT, ICN, HKG, LHR
2 each BKK, SYD, BNE
4 for the rotation SIN(5), AKL(5), DXB(4)
Total 16 planes

Apr schedule:
1 each PVG, PEK, NRT, ICN, HKG, LHR
0.5 for KIX(4)
2 each SYD, BNE
2 for the rotation SIN(4), BKK(3)
Total 13 planes

May-Sept schedule:
1 each PVG, PEK, NRT, ICN, HKG, LHR, FRA
1 for the rotation KIX(4), DUB(3)
2 for SYD
4 for the rotation SIN(4), BNE(5), ???(5)
Total 14 planes

And if the new route is indeed year-round, then next winter will be interesting - either another new route, big increase in frequency for some of the routes, or one of SIN/AKL/DXB/BKK need to go? If they keep everything, then YVR will need 18 planes. They are really banking on the XLR being delivered on time and begin to operate long-hual service by December next year?

S19 was the last time YVR have 18 widebody planes... but at that time, AC's widebody fleet was much bigger.
1 each PVG, PEK, NRT, ICN, HKG, FRA
2 for LHR(14)
0.8 for TPE(6)
2 for the rotation KIX(5), ZRH(5), CDG(4)
2 each SYD, BNE, DEL
1.2 for MEL(4)
0.6 for DUB(4) shared with YUL

So time for W25 speculation!

Update with the latest schedule change

Apr schedule:
1 each NRT, ICN, HKG, LHR
2 for the rotation PVG(5), PVG(5), KIX(4)
2 each SYD, BNE
1 for MNL(3)
2 for the rotation SIN(4), BKK(3)
Total 13 planes

May-Oct schedule:
1 each PVG, PEK, NRT, ICN, HKG, LHR, FRA
1 for the rotation KIX(4), DUB(3)
2 for SYD
4 for the rotation SIN(4), BNE(5), MNL(4)
Total 14 planes

Nov schedule
1 each PVG, PEK, NRT, ICN, HKG, LHR
2 each for SYD, BNE
4.3 for the rotation SIN(4), MNL(4), DXB(4), BKK(3)
Total 15 planes

Dec-Mar 2026 schedule
1 each PVG, PEK, NRT, ICN, HKG, LHR
2(3) for SYD
2 for BNE
8 for the rotation SIN(5), BKK(5), AKL(5), MNL(4), DXB(4) -- see below
Total 18 (19 for Dec) planes

AC 17	MNL*	1 34 6
AC 19	SIN	 2345 7
AC 39	AKL	1 3 567
AC 65	BKK	1 3 567
AC 78	DXB	12 4 6

* = -1 day due to post-midnight departure

So there's slot on days 2457 for potential SGN or any other SE Asia routes. Of course, they can also save 2 planes by cutting some weekly flights out of other routes including SYD and BNE. Otherwise AC will need up to 3 additional planes for W25 out of YVR based on current schedule.

[Ryanosaurus13]

Originally Posted by zahav

Does anyone know why Air Canada Express is putting some flights on B23-25? These are the regional ground loading gates that were built for WS Encore and is primarily still used by them. But I've noticed Air Canada has a few flights each day there too, not sure how long this has been going on, but I've noticed for about 2 weeks so far. Is there construction on C-pier right now or something? It doesn't make sense for them to put any flight on B-gates, C-pier has more than enough capacity. So why put any flight on a far-flung gate shared with WS like B25? The C-pier regional jetty was fully renovated not that long ago, and AC has been putting a lot of DH4s on jet bridges, so there's more than enough room in C gates, regional and jet bridges. Anyone who has inside information, please share . I have mentioned either in this thread or the Canada Airports thread, that WS Encore should be on the A-gates, not at the end of B pier. And AC should only be on the C-gates, so bizarre they have anything on B whatsoever....

Trench drain repairs on the C gates. It was supposed to be done by the end of December but it goes on albeit with 34 and 33 now back in service. As of now, gates 31 and 32 are still inoperative.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

So time for W25 speculation!

So there's slot on days 2457 for potential SGN or any other SE Asia routes. Of course, they can also save 2 planes by cutting some weekly flights out of other routes including SYD and BNE. Otherwise AC will need up to 3 additional planes for W25 out of YVR based on current schedule.

Perhaps BKK will be bumped up to daily again taking two of those available slots

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

Perhaps BKK will be bumped up to daily again taking two of those available slots

Will BKK remain seasonal? Any chance of year-round service? // If & when might we get MEL back?

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by nname

So time for W25 speculation!

So there's slot on days 2457 for potential SGN or any other SE Asia routes. Of course, they can also save 2 planes by cutting some weekly flights out of other routes including SYD and BNE. Otherwise AC will need up to 3 additional planes for W25 out of YVR based on current schedule.

If VN beats AC on starting SGN-YVR, I could see AC starting flights to DPS.

Sorry if this has been previously discussed but can a fully loaded 789 be able to do YVR-DPS or would there be some restrictions in place.

[nname]

Originally Posted by ninjakafi_81

If VN beats AC on starting SGN-YVR, I could see AC starting flights to DPS.

Sorry if this has been previously discussed but can a fully loaded 789 be able to do YVR-DPS or would there be some restrictions in place.

YVR-SIN is 6,923 nm
YVR-DPS is 7,026 nm
YVR-MEL is 7,118 nm

I remember when AC operated MEL, there may be some slight restriction on some days.

Currently small detour around Russian air space is required for SIN, so DPS should closer to SIN than the number shown above. I don't think restriction is required for SIN?

If AC launch DPS for W25, it would only be the 29th longest route in the world and there are plenty of longer ones operated with 789. If AC restart MEL, then it would rank 24th.

[nname]

Looks like DL will be increasing YVR service for S25

YVR-SLC will increase to 3x daily E75
YVR-MSP will increase to 3x daily 320

[Johnny Aussie]

That puts DL at 13 daily this summer.

DL/WS now a combined 19 daily into 7 Delta hubs

Comparing US carriers daily flights for summer 2025:

UA 19
DL 13
AS 8
AA 7 in July 8 in August
B6 2
SY 2 per week

Total of 49-50 daily for US carriers

[Johnny Aussie]

Hong Kong Airlines resumes today

HX 80 on its way ETA around 1900

Three airlines back on YVR-HKG. In fact there were four flights inbound from HKG in the air at the same time (incl AC and 2x CX)

And AC resumed PEK on Wednesday 5 days per week

CA currently flying YVR-PEK 4pw as well

Continuing to getting Asia back to where it used to be

[zahav]

Originally Posted by nname

Looks like DL will be increasing YVR service for S25

YVR-SLC will increase to 3x daily E75
YVR-MSP will increase to 3x daily 320

I just noticed this too, was gonna post it but was too slow I am glad to see these increases for sure. From YVR, the emergence of SEA as a DL hub really came at the expense of SLC and MSP. SLC used to be mainline sometimes, and MSP was 3x or 4x daily summer usually. But that was when they were our main DL connection airports. But SEA all of a sudden created a close connecting airport with many of the same markets (by no means as hefty as SLC or MSP in terms of domestic connections, but SEA's emergence definitely siphoned off SLC/MSP traffic. So I don't see the relative weakness on MSP and SLC as an overall loss, because the 7x SEA flights more than make up for it. So that's why going back up to 3x daily for MSP and SLC is a confidence boost from DL. And I have mentioned before that DL and WS should be thought of as one for transborder service, they are that coordinated now. Not just for YVR, but all over (mainly Western Canada though). I am still shocked WS is operating daily to both DTW and BOS, and then ATL is 15x friggin weekly, that's so wild to me still. Considering how it was only seasonal from ATL and DTW and not typically multiple daily frequencies, the WS offering is better than we got from DL. And BOS is a DL hub lite, we likely would have waited a long time to ever have DL serve BOS-YVR. They didn't even keep the JFK service, so no hope for BOS. So WS is majorly stepping up and broadening their transborder offerings to non-resorty destinations like BOS, BNA, and DTW. Between DL and WS, there is ample service. Of course, NYC is a giant black hole unfortunately. DL has hubs at both LGA and JFK. I only ever thought of JFK as an option, but then in the last few weeks, YYC suddenly has Saturday LGA service from WS and AA, wtf lol! So now it's even more stark for me, losing CX and DL is bigger than gaining B6, sorry!

Not sure why AA chose YYC for a once weekly thing, common assumption is that YVR would've been first, but obviously not So YVR will have 3x daily to EWR (AC and UA) and then 1x daily to JFK (JetBlue). And YYC is 1x daily to EWR (AC), 1x daily to JFK (WS), 1x weekly to JFK (AA and WS). I am not questioning the strong demand for NYC<>AB, it's obviously there. Ahem, it is the ONLY transborder route AC kept after butchering YYC operations; they used to do at least SFO, LAX, LAS, IAH, and I think even ORD plus EWR. Now is their only route, and it's just 1x daily, I would've thought UA would've taken over like they did on all the other routes. Anyways, my point is that demand is there, and I'm not questioning that. I wouldn't think twice if WS doubled its capacity to JFK, it's just the randomness of the AA to LGA add that threw me. WS adding it, makes sense! They are a behemoth at YYC, it's exactly how fortress hubs like ATL or DXB just keep adding and adding, that's what happens with such a strong player. But AA adding it instead of YVR, just seems strange. Not having any OneWorld or Skyteam service to LGA or JFK is bizarrre, considering how well served we are by DL/WS otherwise. It's no big deal if terms of pax #s, it's more just weird how such a major market like NYC has no service from the two biggest airlines at their own two hubs, but AC/UA can do 4x from Newark? AA or DL should have been able to get in there to take some of the pie. AC and UA never used to be double daily each, there was more than enough there yet they both bowed out, so weird. Come on AA, you couldn't even give us 1x weekly JFK Saturdays?! And it's the busy cruise day lol, Saturdays were also huge for transborder, US carriers would always add the random summer weekend flights ie. one or two weekend flights to places like MEM, STL, DTW, I think even IAD was sometimes weekend only. It would make so much sense to have a once weekly to LGA to capture this on top of the huge demand already. If we can get CLT daily, we should be able to get 1x NYC....

[Calfan12]

Originally Posted by zahav

I just noticed this too, was gonna post it but was too slow I am glad to see these increases for sure. From YVR, the emergence of SEA as a DL hub really came at the expense of SLC and MSP. SLC used to be mainline sometimes, and MSP was 3x or 4x daily summer usually. But that was when they were our main DL connection airports. But SEA all of a sudden created a close connecting airport with many of the same markets (by no means as hefty as SLC or MSP in terms of domestic connections, but SEA's emergence definitely siphoned off SLC/MSP traffic. So I don't see the relative weakness on MSP and SLC as an overall loss, because the 7x SEA flights more than make up for it. So that's why going back up to 3x daily for MSP and SLC is a confidence boost from DL. And I have mentioned before that DL and WS should be thought of as one for transborder service, they are that coordinated now. Not just for YVR, but all over (mainly Western Canada though). I am still shocked WS is operating daily to both DTW and BOS, and then ATL is 15x friggin weekly, that's so wild to me still. Considering how it was only seasonal from ATL and DTW and not typically multiple daily frequencies, the WS offering is better than we got from DL. And BOS is a DL hub lite, we likely would have waited a long time to ever have DL serve BOS-YVR. They didn't even keep the JFK service, so no hope for BOS. So WS is majorly stepping up and broadening their transborder offerings to non-resorty destinations like BOS, BNA, and DTW. Between DL and WS, there is ample service. Of course, NYC is a giant black hole unfortunately. DL has hubs at both LGA and JFK. I only ever thought of JFK as an option, but then in the last few weeks, YYC suddenly has Saturday LGA service from WS and AA, wtf lol! So now it's even more stark for me, losing CX and DL is bigger than gaining B6, sorry!

Not sure why AA chose YYC for a once weekly thing, common assumption is that YVR would've been first, but obviously not So YVR will have 3x daily to EWR (AC and UA) and then 1x daily to JFK (JetBlue). And YYC is 1x daily to EWR (AC), 1x daily to JFK (WS), 1x weekly to JFK (AA and WS). I am not questioning the strong demand for NYC<>AB, it's obviously there. Ahem, it is the ONLY transborder route AC kept after butchering YYC operations; they used to do at least SFO, LAX, LAS, IAH, and I think even ORD plus EWR. Now is their only route, and it's just 1x daily, I would've thought UA would've taken over like they did on all the other routes. Anyways, my point is that demand is there, and I'm not questioning that. I wouldn't think twice if WS doubled its capacity to JFK, it's just the randomness of the AA to LGA add that threw me. WS adding it, makes sense! They are a behemoth at YYC, it's exactly how fortress hubs like ATL or DXB just keep adding and adding, that's what happens with such a strong player. But AA adding it instead of YVR, just seems strange. Not having any OneWorld or Skyteam service to LGA or JFK is bizarrre, considering how well served we are by DL/WS otherwise. It's no big deal if terms of pax #s, it's more just weird how such a major market like NYC has no service from the two biggest airlines at their own two hubs, but AC/UA can do 4x from Newark? AA or DL should have been able to get in there to take some of the pie. AC and UA never used to be double daily each, there was more than enough there yet they both bowed out, so weird. Come on AA, you couldn't even give us 1x weekly JFK Saturdays?! And it's the busy cruise day lol, Saturdays were also huge for transborder, US carriers would always add the random summer weekend flights ie. one or two weekend flights to places like MEM, STL, DTW, I think even IAD was sometimes weekend only. It would make so much sense to have a once weekly to LGA to capture this on top of the huge demand already. If we can get CLT daily, we should be able to get 1x NYC....

You made some good points. Although I guess Vancouver YVR can’t have everything.

YVR - NYC area market is dominated by AC Air Canada/ UA United, with them having 2x daily flights each to Newark EWR in S25 . Even the 1x daily YVR to New York JFK on JetBlue can’t match it✅.

While Calgary YYC - NYC area market, is still up for grabs & is a pretty tight battle between WS WestJet & AC✅.

In S25 YVR- NYC area will have 35x weekly flights.
AC Air Canada YVR- Newark EWR 14x weekly
UA United YVR- Newark EWR 14x weekly
B6 JetBlue YVR- New York JFK 7x weekly

While Calgary YYC - NYC area has 16x weekly flights for S25.
AC Air Canada YYC- Newark EWR 7x weekly
WS WestJet YYC- New York JFK 7x weekly
WS WestJet YYC - New York LaGuardia LGA 1x weekly
AA American Airlines YYC - New York LaGuardia LGA 1x weekly

[zahav]

Originally Posted by Calfan12

You made some good points. Although I guess Vancouver YVR can’t have everything.

YVR - NYC area market is dominated by AC Air Canada/ UA United, with them having 2x daily flights each to Newark EWR in S25 . Even the 1x daily YVR to New York JFK on JetBlue can’t match it✅.

While Calgary YYC - NYC area market, is still up for grabs & is a pretty tight battle between WS WestJet & AC✅.

In S25 YVR- NYC area will have 35x weekly flights.
AC Air Canada YVR- Newark EWR 14x weekly
UA United YVR- Newark EWR 14x weekly
B6 JetBlue YVR- New York JFK 7x weekly

While Calgary YYC - NYC area has 16x weekly flights for S25.
AC Air Canada YYC- Newark EWR 7x weekly
WS WestJet YYC- New York JFK 7x weekly
WS WestJet YYC - New York LaGuardia LGA 1x weekly
AA American Airlines YYC - New York LaGuardia LGA 1x weekly

Yes totally agree that YVR is well served overall, and Calgary could certainly absorb more capacity, no argument there. They could probably handle WS going to 2x daily, so my post was no slight against YYC at all. But once weekly service to LGA from two different airlines all of a sudden? It isn't a big capacity boost even. It's just that YVR used to have CX daily to JFK, covering OneWorld. And then DL had JFK off and on, so that's Skyteam. Then AC/UA were always the same once daily service in the summer each. But losing CX and DL left a big void in alliance flights to a major hub for DL and AA. And in the summer, YVR is undeniably bigger because of cruise and connections too. So just seemed weird that AA would add YYC over YVR when it is a measly once a week Saturday service, more suited to YVR objectively. And with WS, YYC has a strong Skyteam connection to JFK, where DL is the biggest carrier. YVR has nothing, just seems like a glaring gap. AC and UA added capacity when they saw both AA and DL were absent, it wasn't like AC or UA were so colossal that they kept competitors out. They only doubled service in recent times, AA and DL had plenty of time to add and maybe even keep AC/UA at their once daily normals if they wanted. Just odd is all, for YVR to have such gaps to an important market like NYC, so thought AA adding LGA once weekly would at least be something, but not even lol!

[thenoflyzone]

YVR has no gaps in service to NYC.

LGA has short runways (7000ft) and a perimeter rule (max 1,500 mile routes) every day except on saturdays. This makes operating LGA-YVR on any meaningful basis unrealistic.

As for LGA-YYC, it's only 13 round trip flights by each carrier for 3 months out of the year. It's hardly a drop in the bucket.

If it makes you feel better though, I highly doubt you will see AA or WS on this route in summer 2026. Just a hunch.

These saturday only +1,500 mile flights from LGA don't last. They almost all have a bad record. DL tried LAX, PHX and LAS. They all failed after one season. Even SLC has its struggles.

As for CX to JFK, their own management admitted the route was losing money for years. Hence why it got cut. So my advice is, stop reminiscing in the past. Look to the future. There are good opportunities coming YVR's way.

And for the love of god, try to summarize your thoughts a bit.....

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

..../edit mine /...
As for CX to JFK, their own management admitted the route was losing money for years. Hence why it got cut. So my advice is, stop reminiscing in the past. Look to the future. There are good opportunities coming YVR's way.

Di you know of any specific new routes in the planning, or is that just a rhetorical gneralization? Not a problem, just checking.

[VancityAvgeek33]

Isn’t Tway supposed to launch yvr flights? Then that would be a new airline.

[owenf]

Hi, I did an updated analysis for YVR transborder S25 for week of 17-24 July. Seems like over 100+ daily departures to the US. Let me know if anything is missing - of course, things are always changing.

YVR-ANC x1 daily AC
YVR-ATL x15 weekly WS
YVR-AUS x7 weekly AC/WS (4wk/3wk respectively)
YVR-BOS x2 daily B6/WS
YVR-BNA x7 weekly AC/WS (4wk/3wk respectively over 5 days)
YVR-CLT x1 daily AA
YVR-DEN x6 daily AC/UA
YVR-DFW x3 daily AA (4 daily in August)
YVR-DTW x1 daily WS (change to daytime from redeye S24)
YVR-EWR x4 daily AC/UA (UA one extra daily freq.)
YVR-HNL x2 daily AC/WS
YVR-IAD x2 daily AC/UA
YVR-IAH x3 daily AC/UA
YVR-JFK x1 daily B6
YVR-LAS x4 daily AC/WS (seems like WS added one more daily freq.)
YVR-LAX x11 daily AC/AA/F8/UA/WS
YVR-MCO x2 weekly WS (one extra weekly)
YVR-MIA x4 weekly AC
YVR-MSP x23 weekly (3 daily DL/2 weekly SY)
YVR-OGG x5 weekly WS (drop from daily S24)
YVR-ORD x5 daily AC/AA/UA (UA one more daily freq.)
YVR-PDX x6 daily AC/AS (AS one more daily freq.)
YVR-PHX x16 weekly AC/WS (WS added 2wk)
YVR-PSP x2 weekly WS
YVR-RDU x3 weekly AC (new)
YVR-SAN x25 weekly AC (2wk WS new)
YVR-SEA x18 daily AC/AS/DL
YVR-SFO x12 daily AC/F8/UA/WS - UA is 6 daily
YVR-SLC x3 daily DL - one more daily.
YVR-SMF x2 daily AC
YVR-SNA x1 daily AC (WS drop)
YVR-TPA x3 weekly AC/WS (new)

Thanks!

[Johnny Aussie]

^ as always good work!

The only thing I noticed was ORD - it’s AA that added an additional daily flight not UA

Didn’t realise AA was 4 daily to DFW in AUG so that makes AA 8 daily in August (7 on 321s)

[VancityAvgeek33]

Originally Posted by owenf

Hi, I did an updated analysis for YVR transborder S25 for week of 17-24 July. Seems like over 100+ daily departures to the US. Let me know if anything is missing - of course, things are always changing.

YVR-ANC x1 daily AC
YVR-ATL x15 weekly WS
YVR-AUS x7 weekly AC/WS (4wk/3wk respectively)
YVR-BOS x2 daily B6/WS
YVR-BNA x7 weekly AC/WS (4wk/3wk respectively over 5 days)
YVR-CLT x1 daily AA
YVR-DEN x6 daily AC/UA
YVR-DFW x3 daily AA (4 daily in August)
YVR-DTW x1 daily WS (change to daytime from redeye S24)
YVR-EWR x4 daily AC/UA (UA one extra daily freq.)
YVR-HNL x2 daily AC/WS
YVR-IAD x2 daily AC/UA
YVR-IAH x3 daily AC/UA
YVR-JFK x1 daily B6
YVR-LAS x4 daily AC/WS (seems like WS added one more daily freq.)
YVR-LAX x11 daily AC/AA/F8/UA/WS
YVR-MCO x2 weekly WS (one extra weekly)
YVR-MIA x4 weekly AC
YVR-MSP x23 weekly (3 daily DL/2 weekly SY)
YVR-OGG x5 weekly WS (drop from daily S24)
YVR-ORD x5 daily AC/AA/UA (UA one more daily freq.)
YVR-PDX x6 daily AC/AS (AS one more daily freq.)
YVR-PHX x16 weekly AC/WS (WS added 2wk)
YVR-PSP x2 weekly WS
YVR-RDU x3 weekly AC (new)
YVR-SAN x25 weekly AC (2wk WS new)
YVR-SEA x18 daily AC/AS/DL
YVR-SFO x12 daily AC/F8/UA/WS - UA is 6 daily
YVR-SLC x3 daily DL - one more daily.
YVR-SMF x2 daily AC
YVR-SNA x1 daily AC (WS drop)
YVR-TPA x3 weekly AC/WS (new)

Thanks!

Air canada is 5 weekly to Austin not 4

[zahav]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

YVR has no gaps in service to NYC.

LGA has short runways (7000ft) and a perimeter rule (max 1,500 mile routes) every day except on saturdays. This makes operating LGA-YVR on any meaningful basis unrealistic.

As for LGA-YYC, it's only 13 round trip flights by each carrier for 3 months out of the year. It's hardly a drop in the bucket.

If it makes you feel better though, I highly doubt you will see AA or WS on this route in summer 2026. Just a hunch.

These saturday only +1,500 mile flights from LGA don't last. They almost all have a bad record. DL tried LAX, PHX and LAS. They all failed after one season. Even SLC has its struggles.

As for CX to JFK, their own management admitted the route was losing money for years. Hence why it got cut. So my advice is, stop reminiscing in the past. Look to the future. There are good opportunities coming YVR's way.

And for the love of god, try to summarize your thoughts a bit.....

As I said, I am not complaining about our level of service, and also stated that the AA service is limited frequency and duration, so I know we're not talking big pax numbers. I just meant it seemed weird for AA to launch a limited Saturday route to YYC and not YVR, considering the summer cruise season and general leisure traffic that would make sense for a once weekly summer only from the more convenient LGA and it's vast domestic feeds. It was never about us needing the extra capacity or whatever, just interesting that AA would use the scarce LGA transcontinental op on YYC instead (and again, no shade to YYC, they have plenty of demand as well, but I assumed given the choice for such a service, AA would've gone with the bigger market.

And thanks for the unsolicited advice on my posts lol, I am obviously aware they are super too long and wordy, I admit that all the time. I always have so much to bring up and find it hard to edit, especially in a forum format, I am used to writing longer documents from school and work, so it's a challenge. I don't expect everyone to read everything, you are more than welcome to skip my posts

[ninjakafi_81]

Nothing super crazy but JL will be sending the 789 for a bit during Mid April to the end of May.

Tokyo Narita – Vancouver
19APR25 – 31MAY25 787-9 replaces initially filed -8
01OCT25 – 25OCT25 787-8 replaces initially filed 767-300ER

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/250127-jlns25int