Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

"If you're a state, we won't have a deficit, we won't have to tariff you." Ca paraît frappé au coin du bon sens.

"Living next to <The United States> is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt." - Pierre Elliot Trudeau

The "beast" is having a fever dream, apparently. Lots of rolling and kicking in random directions. I don't think Canada is particularly to blame for it's poor sleep, but it's unfortunately close-at-hand.

A lot of us are probably trying not to imagine what France felt like in 1913 or 1939.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

I see him more egging Alberta to separate and join the U.S. (I wouldn't even be surprised if Trump already made a clear offer to Danielle Smith). Trump wants to be on Mount Rushmore, and good way for him to achieve that (at least, in his mind) would be to increase the size of the USA. Adding Alberta, the territories and maybe Saskatchewan could be enough to do that. It would add lots of resources, reduce the commercial deficit with Canada and wouldn't tip the balance politically in favor of the Democrats. Also, it would weakens Canada, and in Trump's twisted mind if an "enemy" gets hurt, it is a win for him.

Taking Alberta seems possible. It ends up a red state with the likely exodus of more liberal and more urban Albertans. Could he bribe 50%+! to vote for it? Maybe.

[harls]

Surprised this hasn't been brought up yet -

Amazon closing all Quebec warehouses, laying off more than 1,700 workers

Online retail giant Amazon is closing all of its warehouses in Quebec and laying off hundreds of workers.

The company says it will cease operations over the next two months in seven operation sites, one fulfillment centre, two sorting centres, three delivery stations and one AMXL (extra large) delivery station that is co-located with a sorting centre.

Barbara Agrait, a spokesperson with Amazon, denies that the decision was made following the unionization of 200 employees last spring at Amazon’s DXT4 warehouse in Laval, Que.

In total, 1,700 regular employees in Quebec and 250 temporary-seasonal workers will be laid off.

Agrait explains seasonal workers “will be compensated until the last day of their contracts,” and impacted employees are set to receive packages including up to 14 weeks of pay once facilities close, as well as transitional benefits, “like job placement resources.”

Amazon says it plans to return to its third-party model, “supported by small local businesses” for package deliveries.

“This is something we already had in Quebec, we had it in place until 2020,” said Agrait. “We believe it’s going to allow us to provide the same great business to our customers.”

https://www.ctvnews.ca/montreal/article/amazon-is-ceasing-operations-in-quebec/

No more one-day delivery in Quebec now, too.. apparently.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by harls

Surprised this hasn't been brought up yet -

Amazon closing all Quebec warehouses, laying off more than 1,700 workers

Online retail giant Amazon is closing all of its warehouses in Quebec and laying off hundreds of workers.

The company says it will cease operations over the next two months in seven operation sites, one fulfillment centre, two sorting centres, three delivery stations and one AMXL (extra large) delivery station that is co-located with a sorting centre.

Barbara Agrait, a spokesperson with Amazon, denies that the decision was made following the unionization of 200 employees last spring at Amazon’s DXT4 warehouse in Laval, Que.

In total, 1,700 regular employees in Quebec and 250 temporary-seasonal workers will be laid off.

Agrait explains seasonal workers “will be compensated until the last day of their contracts,” and impacted employees are set to receive packages including up to 14 weeks of pay once facilities close, as well as transitional benefits, “like job placement resources.”

Amazon says it plans to return to its third-party model, “supported by small local businesses” for package deliveries.

“This is something we already had in Quebec, we had it in place until 2020,” said Agrait. “We believe it’s going to allow us to provide the same great business to our customers.”

https://www.ctvnews.ca/montreal/article/amazon-is-ceasing-operations-in-quebec/

No more one-day delivery in Quebec now, too.. apparently.

It's been discussed in other threads.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

"If you're a state, we won't have a deficit, we won't have to tariff you." Ca paraît frappé au coin du bon sens.

https://x.com/atrupar/status/1882470582333153287

Trump makes the same argument as Canadian federalists to Quebec: “Remain a province or else there will be trade barriers and you’ll be sorry!”

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Taking Alberta seems possible. It ends up a red state with the likely exodus of more liberal and more urban Albertans. Could he bribe 50%+! to vote for it? Maybe.

If Alberta leaves Canada to join the US (Alberta independence is an unfeasible joke, due to geography) then it's likely all of Canada falls apart.

Quebec would almost certainly become independent with some form of associated status with the US, as it's a poor fit for a full US state and neither party (Quebec or the US) would want that, to be honest.

Who knows what would happen to the other 8 provinces and 3 territories.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by harls

Surprised this hasn't been brought up yet -

Amazon closing all Quebec warehouses, laying off more than 1,700 workers

Online retail giant Amazon is closing all of its warehouses in Quebec and laying off hundreds of workers.

The company says it will cease operations over the next two months in seven operation sites, one fulfillment centre, two sorting centres, three delivery stations and one AMXL (extra large) delivery station that is co-located with a sorting centre.

Barbara Agrait, a spokesperson with Amazon, denies that the decision was made following the unionization of 200 employees last spring at Amazon’s DXT4 warehouse in Laval, Que.

In total, 1,700 regular employees in Quebec and 250 temporary-seasonal workers will be laid off.

Agrait explains seasonal workers “will be compensated until the last day of their contracts,” and impacted employees are set to receive packages including up to 14 weeks of pay once facilities close, as well as transitional benefits, “like job placement resources.”

Amazon says it plans to return to its third-party model, “supported by small local businesses” for package deliveries.

“This is something we already had in Quebec, we had it in place until 2020,” said Agrait. “We believe it’s going to allow us to provide the same great business to our customers.”

https://www.ctvnews.ca/montreal/article/amazon-is-ceasing-operations-in-quebec/

No more one-day delivery in Quebec now, too.. apparently.

I suppose, if we accept to become an U.S. state, Trump will immediately ask his buddy Bezos to reopen those centers and reinstate same-day delivery in QC?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

I suppose, if we accept to become an U.S. state, Trump will immediately ask his buddy Bezos to reopen those centers and reinstate same-day delivery in QC?

With a more anti-union labour environment?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

With a more anti-union labour environment?

Obviously. As well as lower taxes, and much shorter waiting times at hospital emergency wards, among other advantages.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

If Alberta leaves Canada to join the US (Alberta independence is an unfeasible joke, due to geography) then it's likely all of Canada falls apart.

Quebec would almost certainly become independent with some form of associated status with the US, as it's a poor fit for a full US state and neither party (Quebec or the US) would want that, to be honest.

Who knows what would happen to the other 8 provinces and 3 territories.

I don't mean this as hate to Alberta but it could actually bring us all together. We'd be a little poorer but more unified. Our dollar would fall pretty dramatically making us competitive in all sorts of ways we aren't now. But yeah Quebec would seem likely to jump ship pretty fast with less and less equalization making the economics of separation easier.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Nashe

A lot of us are probably trying not to imagine what France felt like in 1913 or 1939.

1913: peak of Belle Epoque. Russian ballets premiering in Paris (think The Rite of Spring, whose premiere was a major scandal in Paris in 1913). New Yorkers visiting the culture capital of the old world with envy. Paris 2nd largest financial center in the world (ahead of NYC ). Capital of the aviation and automobile pioneers. Gathering place of Russian grand dukes and Indian maharajas.

Paris back then was also much nicer and better maintained than today. They cleaned the streets, kept the parks in perfect condition. Not like the cesspit that it is today with our hard-left municipality. It isn't called the 'Belle Epoque' for nothing.

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1920s: France basking in its glory as victor of WW1, peak of its colonial empire, climaxing with the International Colonial Exhibition of 1931 in the Bois de Vincennes.



1930s: less fun politically and economically, although France had the best music ever back then, and top-notch cinema (whereas today...).

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Johnny Hess, by the way, was a Germanophone Swiss, but he made his career singing in French in France.

It will always be beyond me how the darkest period in European (and French) history could generate the best pop music we've ever had.

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The biggest hit of 1938 ("Qu'est-ce qu'on attend pour être heureux ?", still well known today, I believe also in Québec). I don't know why we aren't a happy society like that anymore today.

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Personally I prefer this one by the same band (it is incredibly sarcastic and funny if you understand French well). The joyfulness of these prewar years is unbelievable really.

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So really, the worst that I can hope for you guys is to experience a period as prolific and extraordinary as the 1913-1939 in France! (most likely, your next 25 years are going to be pretty dull and unremarkable in the annals of history, except for an improbable OUI win in a Québec referendum)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

The biggest hit of 1938 ("Qu'est-ce qu'on attend pour être heureux ?", still well known today, I believe also in Québec). I don't know why we aren't a happy society like that anymore today.

• Video Link

I was born more than three decades after that song came out but I used to sing it all the time in a "funny dad" way, so my kids (born in the 2000s) are definitely familiar with the refrain, at least.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

Trump makes the same argument as Canadian federalists to Quebec: “Remain a province or else there will be trade barriers and you’ll be sorry!”

They are both bluffing.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Who knows what would happen to the other 8 provinces and 3 territories.

We could recover Cape Breton and add it to the jurisdiction of St Pierre and Miquelon.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I don't mean this as hate to Alberta but it could actually bring us all together. We'd be a little poorer but more unified. Our dollar would fall pretty dramatically making us competitive in all sorts of ways we aren't now. But yeah Quebec would seem likely to jump ship pretty fast with less and less equalization making the economics of separation easier.

Any unity sentiment would almost certainly be overshadowed by the huge logicistical nightmare that would be caused by all land transportation between BC and central and eastern Canada being cut off.

Since I assume that Alberta becoming part of the US would be a fairly acrimonious thing in US/Alberta vs Canada relations. I doubt the borders would be very free-flowing, at least not for a good while.

It might even be worse than hypothetical borders between an independent Quebec and the ROC.

There are no good alternative options at all to travel by road or rail between tropical Maple Creek SK and Field BC if Alberta and the US are semi-hostile territory. Building decent roads and rail lines to the north (think terrain and climate) would take hundreds of billions and many years. Not to mention how much of a detour it would be.


Of course, all of this is really high-stakes politique-fiction.

[lio45]

Exactly, the idea that Alberta joining the US would result in closer ties between southern BC and the eastern Prairies and Ontario, is just crazy to me.

[Acajack]

On another note, in the discussions about Quebec independence over the years and the prospect of having Atlantic Canada cut off from Ontario, there has always been an assumption that "if all else fails with Quebec", there is always the option of routing Canadian road and rail traffic between the two regions and around Quebec through the friendly territory of the US.

No one ever expected that there would ever be a "non-zero" chance of that changing for the worse.

[Acajack]

https://www.lesoleil.com/actualites/poli...e-que-la-caq-F54H7HTKIREQJEFECIGJSACPEU/

PQ 34
CAQ 25
PLQ 15
QS 12
PCQ 11

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

https://www.lesoleil.com/actualites/poli...e-que-la-caq-F54H7HTKIREQJEFECIGJSACPEU/

PQ 34
CAQ 25
PLQ 15
QS 12
PCQ 11

So will CAQ explode, with the opportunists rallying the PQ and suddenly rediscovering their inner separatist self?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Nashe

"Living next to <The United States> is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt." - Pierre Elliot Trudeau

As an American famously sang: "The best is yet to come..."