Canadian Airport Thread II

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by RomanR27

On the other hand, looks like the Porter's 3x weekly YUL-LAS is being cut at the end of February. I never paid much attention to the Montreal routes, but presumably that was originally set to run through the end of April, just like YOW was originally loaded as (as YUL-LAS operates on the 3 days that YOW-LAS doesn't). YOW-LAS is loaded next fall as well, whereas YUL-LAS is not.

YUL-LAX/SFO, both of which ended two months ahead of schedule last fall aren't loaded in for this summer either.

YUL-FLL seems to be doing okay though. Not extended through the summer like YOW, but I see it's up to 11x weekly starting at the end of February.

It’s got to be hard for Porter to compete with AC in YUL? Think AC would match any route Porter introduced. Kinda like how WS smoothers other carriers at YYC

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by msmariner

It’s got to be hard for Porter to compete with AC in YUL? Think AC would match any route Porter introduced. Kinda like how WS smoothers other carriers at YYC

The good news for PD is that AC seems to be yielding to them in YOW. I heard from some FA's that on average the flights from YOW are more full than from YUL which makes sense because who would choose a carrier doing 3x weekly to LAS rather than one who does multi-daily? This is anecdotal but an interesting observation. They have not responded to anything PD has done in YOW which is strange because you'd think they would want to defend those 12x daily flights from YOW to YYZ so that they can fill their flights in YYZ.

[casper]

Originally Posted by msmariner

It’s got to be hard for Porter to compete with AC in YUL? Think AC would match any route Porter introduced. Kinda like how WS smoothers other carriers at YYC

Earlier in the month I was on the AC A330 that they have on LAS route.

First time on one of these weird (non-AC standard birds). The head phone jacks are odd. The inflight entertainment is limited relative to a normal AC flight. Even at that, I would pick the A330 over an what Porter is flying.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by fanofYOW

They have not responded to anything PD has done in YOW which is strange because you'd think they would want to defend those 12x daily flights from YOW to YYZ so that they can fill their flights in YYZ.

No matter what PD does out of YOW, there will always be pax that connect with AC through YYZ or YUL. AC knows that very well.

AC is protecting YYZ, YVR and YUL first and foremost. This being said, I suspect fleet constraints is another major reason why AC isn't matching PD on YOW-domestic or transborder runs. I think there will come a time when they will. I don't think PD is particularly looking forward to that.

[fanofYOW]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

No matter what PD does out of YOW, there will always be pax that connect with AC through YYZ or YUL. AC knows that very well.

AC is protecting YYZ, YVR and YUL first and foremost. This being said, I suspect fleet constraints is another major reason why AC isn't matching PD on YOW-domestic or transborder runs. I think there will come a time when they will. I don't think PD is particularly looking forward to that.

The longer AC waits, the more PD establishes YOW as their territory. The more PD builds, the harder it will be for AC if they even plan on doing anything. There will always be pax that choose AC and connect, but now that PD and AF are here, I assume it's far less than pre-pandemic. I know many people who used to have (or still have) aeroplane yet have not been on an AC flight for quite a while and instead have been choosing PD and AF. Myself included. I assume they would choose AC if PD and AF can't get them to where they need to go.

An interesting fact as stated by PD's CEO is that almost half (if it has not surpassed half by now) of pax going in and out of YOW are on PD alone.

[peytol]

Originally Posted by LO 044

I have seen all these stories. The first two stories mean nothing. Porter is throwing any and every route it can from YOW otherwise their aircraft sit on the tarmac bleeding cash. Smaller airlines (like Flair, formerly Lynx and Air Transat can't and shouldn't try and compete at YOW). The Saskatoon-Toronto flight probably isn't a lucrative money making route so no big deal there either. It was only 3x per week. Flair is actually finally being smart and dropping routes sooner than later based on economics.

The last story is more relevant although not unexpected from a start up airline. It would be interesting to find an insider to see how Flair is doing. I really don't know what they are trying to be as an airline anymore. Point to point? Connections? Leisure routes? Western based mostly?

I would rather Porter have one less competitor in the market so there is a viable 3rd alternative however based on all the comments I've seen on the metrics of the E195-E2, Porter will never win the battle with AC or WS. The key thing is Porter is going head to head with AC and WS on many routes. Air Transat for example stays in their lane of YUL and YYZ. Air Transat was also smart to drop Western Canada routes but that doesn't make them unsuccessful.

Around the 40 second mark in this video the Porter CEO explains the unit cost of the E2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEot_6eBaEM

Maybe Flair found a new backer? Its been a few months since that story came out, hopefully they did.

[RomanR27]

EDIT: wrong thread, please delete

[thenoflyzone]

Posted these on airliners, so thought I'd post them here as well.

YUL main terminal building extension coming up, on the domestic side, where gate 1 and the now mothballed gate 3 used to be. There will be 2 new gates (45 and 46), with an expanded 3 story (maybe 4) domestic area, when all is said and done. There will be room for VIP lounges on the higher floors, something that is much needed on the domestic side.






Source: ADM

All of this is part of the master plan, which includes the new satellite building. This is part of the first phase. Still waiting on ADM to officially publish their master plan though. I'm guessing it's coming up very shortly.

[JakeLRS]

Abbotsford Surpasses 1 Million Pax in 2024

This is the 2nd year in a row where YXX surpassed 1 million passengers.

Press release states they are planning a $6 million modernization of terminal facilities, alongside the construction of new hangers. They are also proposing a new gas station with two restaurant's (one being a Tim Hortons drive through, pending an amendment from the city) and a convenience store on airport lands.

Can't find specific number of pax. I never realized how disorganized their website is.

[thenoflyzone]

YUL posted Dec and full year figures. Surprised at how fast that was ! Usually, they post this in March.

Oddly enough, international growth was negative for December, and domestic had the highest increase. Not typical of YUL.

Dec 2024:

Domestic: 502,125 +5.1%
Transborder: 393,667 +1.1%
International: 824,624 -1.1%
Total: 1,720,416, +1.1%

Total 2024:

Domestic: 6,603,647 +0.2%
Transborder: 5,201,039 +9.9%
International: 10,595,413 +7.6%
Total: 22,400,099 +5.8%

Highest total ever, obviously. Also, international numbers for the year surpassed 10 million for the first time. It's the first time transborder finished the year over 5 million as well.
Overall, YUL handled 15.8 million non-domestic passengers. That's over 70% of passengers on international or transborder flights.

https://admtl.my.salesforce.com/sfc/p/#H...o9paeCosTlIzel7gW8yW8CY.gykxkXOyngd2z0BY

The year began with a near 15% increase in January, and is finishing with barely a 1% increase in December. Growth is definitely slowing ! Let's see what happens in 2025.

[craner]

^Wow! Great to see.
Things looking bright for YUL.

[cranes]

https://www.therecord.com/news/waterloo-...013dbd2-7837-5c30-91ba-3d380d63759f.html
Regional airport surges past 500,000 passengers in fourth year of growth
Passengers at the airport outside Kitchener have been growing steadily since Flair Airlines arrived in 2021.
Jan. 23, 2025

The expanding regional airport handled 523,210 passengers last year, setting another record.
...
The regional government has spent tens of millions to upgrade the airport in Breslau to handle up to one million annual passengers. This includes the construction of a domestic arrival building, the expansion of a departure lounge and the reconfiguration of an air terminal building.

In 2024, the airport saw an increase of just over 17 per cent in passengers, year over year. Last August was the busiest month with 82,531 passengers using Flair, WestJet and Air Canada, on a bus connecting passengers to Pearson International Airport in Toronto.
...

[thenoflyzone]

A bunch of airports have reported their 2024 stats, including YUL, YOW, YLW, YYJ, YXE, YXX, YKF, YYG, YQQ and YFC. You can see all of it at the link below.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_Canada#2024

Of note, all have increases so far, except for YXX, down 24% Y.O.Y.
YHM will have a massive decrease as well.

[Djeffery]

So Waterloo is counting Air Canada bus passengers, I wonder how many those are and I wonder if YHM will as well. London has city bus service at the door, maybe they can count that too.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

So Waterloo is counting Air Canada bus passengers

This seems a tad disingenuous.....

I presume they don't make any money off of bus landing fees.

[Base]

YOW showing some major momentum with Porter. Looks like it will be 2 years in a row for them having the highest growth % in passengers amongst the top 10 airports.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Base

YOW showing some major momentum with Porter. Looks like it will be 2 years in a row for them having the highest growth % in passengers amongst the top 10 airports.

I think it a genius move on the part of Porter turning YOW into a hub.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by Base

YOW showing some major momentum with Porter. Looks like it will be 2 years in a row for them having the highest growth % in passengers amongst the top 10 airports.

YOW's percentage increases are larger in 2024 as the airport's been playing catch-up to most of the other large airports as AC and WS are still a fraction of their pre-pandemic numbers. PD's definitely still got loads of room to grow at YOW.

YKF counting bus pax in their total is certainly inflating their numbers, even if they do get a fee per departure from AC via the bus company.

[sailor734]

Daughter is flying YVR to SAN this morning on AC (Jazz). 1200 miles and 3+ hours on a CRJ.....That would not be my idea of a good time.

[MountainView]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Daughter is flying YVR to SAN this morning on AC (Jazz). 1200 miles and 3+ hours on a CRJ.....That would not be my idea of a good time.

Similar stage length to YOW-YWG and shorter than YWG-YVR, both on the CRJ900