Burnaby Updates

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by vanman

Lots to love about this proposal. I really like the setbacks and the copper coloured facade. The prospect of a public observation deck 250m above Metrotown, with views of the entire metro, is truly exciting. I would also love to see a rooftop bar or lounge included.

I love the idea of an Idigenous art gallery. To become a legitimate downtown, Metrotown needs cultural amenities like galleries and museums. It can't all just be condos and retail. It's also commendable that the developer is exceeding the requirement for low income housing units. Amazing how the lack of artificial limitations imposed for arbitrary reasons can make projects like this viable.

I totally missed the part about the observation deck. I still wonder how they are going to finance it.

[mcj]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Err... are we all forgetting about the 28?

The 28 doesn't exist. It's a figment of your imagination.

[vanman]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I totally missed the part about the observation deck. I still wonder how they are going to finance it.

I could see them partnering with a larger developer possibly.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by mcj

The 28 doesn't exist. It's a figment of your imagination.

TransLink think it's real.

[RedArbutus]

Really, really impressed by this. A standout development.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Inside Metrotown's Tallest Proposed Tower: The 72-Storey McCarthy Plaza

Dialog is the architect.

......[/IMG]



https://storeys.com/mccarthy-plaza-kingsway-metrotown-burnaby/

It's nuts how it's towering (..excuse the pun) over Concord's Grand Tower across the street in that image, when that Concord's by itself is going to dwarf everything else for miles when its complete, given its elevated location in Metrotown.

It's just a pity it's Dialog that's handling the design.

It always seems to be the "safe" architects that get selected to do these landmark tower projects.

By the end of the next decade we could have as many as four to five 65-75 storey tall towers along that stretch of Kingsway between this tower, Concord's Grand Tower, Anthem's Citizen down the road, and Keltic's proposed 70 storey tower at the Esso station on Kingsway and Wilingdon.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

It's nuts how it's towering (..excuse the pun) over Concord's Grand Tower across the street in that image, when that Concord's by itself is going to dwarf everything else for miles when its complete, given its elevated location in Metrotown.

It's just a pity it's Dialog that's handling the design.

It always seems to be the "safe" architects that get selected to do these landmark tower projects.

By the end of the next decade we could have as many as four to five 65-75 storey tall towers along that stretch of Kingsway between this tower, Concord's Grand Tower, Anthem's Citizen down the road, and Keltic's proposed 70 storey tower at the Esso station on Kingsway and Wilingdon.

And Ivanhoe with at least a bunch of 60 storey towers



https://www.burnabynow.com/local-news/12...ive-metrotown-mall-redevelopment-8581482

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by giallo

I like the building's profile. It's a handsome-looking tower.

The usual critics on the Canadian section seem to think otherwise… but I love it! This tower is downtown worthy. This is what the Bay parkade should be.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

And Ivanhoe with at least a bunch of 60 storey towers



https://www.burnabynow.com/local-news/12...ive-metrotown-mall-redevelopment-8581482

I'll be very curious to see what they end up proposing for the first phase of this masterplan proposal. (presumably the parcel defined by the parking lot sitting front of the Superstore/Indigo - which doesn't require the expiration of any tenant leases within the mall to get started or done).

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

I'll be very curious to see what they end up proposing for the first phase of this masterplan proposal. (presumably the parcel defined by the parking lot sitting front of the Superstore/Indigo - which doesn't require the expiration of any tenant leases within the mall to get started or done).

These were the proposed phase 1 sections



https://www.burnabynow.com/local-news/12...he%2035,1%20from%202025%20through%202054.

[gaviscon]

My photo on Jan 6. During The Fog

20250106_103957 by globalbusinesscentre105 H, on Flickr

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

These were the proposed phase 1 sections



https://www.burnabynow.com/local-news/12...he%2035,1%20from%202025%20through%202054.

Yes, I believe the north-westernmost section (The Superstore-fronting parking lot) will be the first one to get the greenlight since it's the one that requires the least heavy-lifting (red-tape, logistics,...etc).

The southwesterly-most section, I don't believe will happen any time soon unless they can come up with a plan for an alternate Bus loop location that's acceptable to both the City and Translink who are both against relocating it at all.

The parkade structure adjacent to the Metro Office towers to their east is also possible but that one would likely create a lot more disruption for the office towers and the mall tenants on that side of the mall seeing as it also serves as the loading bay junction for that side of the mall.
It also encompasses the Walmart, and the T&T store downstairs and they both have leases running into the 2050's. (Yes, leases can be terminated by mutual consent, but Ivanhoe would likely have to provide a considerable payout to both in order to do so)

The north-eastern section neighbouring the Concord towers will likewise most likely be dependent on when the lease for The Bay runs out.
And it too will come with logistical challengs as the main Food Court will likely have to close down too.

Which brings us back to the Superstore parking lot and the fact that there's already construction happening on that side of Kingsway (with more coming too once phase 2 of Concord's project goes into development in additionto Citizen across the road that's already under construction.), should in my opinion make it the no-brainer 'Phase 1' for ths grand development.

Lots of projects this year all over the various municipalities seem to be coming out of the Inflation crisis-fueled limbo that they were in over the past several years. So hopefully it shouldn't be long before we get some news on this one as well sometime this year.

[ecbin]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

And Ivanhoe with at least a bunch of 60 storey towers



https://www.burnabynow.com/local-news/12...ive-metrotown-mall-redevelopment-8581482

I feel like such a NIMBY saying this but this development, like Brentwood, just feels gross. The lack of green space, the cramming of people into a small space when there's so much land around it, the ugliness of it. While these are fancy, modern towers I fear that in 50 years these will become ghettos b/c of how unliveable the area will become. I don't feel Burnaby has planners that know how to build liveable areas - they're just cramming in density to collect development fees.

It's better than Brentwood which is so unwalkable and and unfriendly at the street level but in 10 years it might be just as bad.

How Vancouver does density feels so much better (even though I think they should be pushing more density on things like Broadway).

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by ecbin

I feel like such a NIMBY saying this but this development, like Brentwood, just feels gross. The lack of green space, the cramming of people into a small space when there's so much land around it, the ugliness of it. While these are fancy, modern towers I fear that in 50 years these will become ghettos b/c of how unliveable the area will become. I don't feel Burnaby has planners that know how to build liveable areas - they're just cramming in density to collect development fees.

It's better than Brentwood which is so unwalkable and and unfriendly at the street level but in 10 years it might be just as bad.

How Vancouver does density feels so much better (even though I think they should be pushing more density on things like Broadway).

It's not being a NIMBY to not like "urban" centres like downtown Vancouver or Metrotown. But it seems a bit paranoid to say it's going to turn into anything resembling a ghetto. Urban planning is just an organized experiment to just try whatever is the current fad. If it doesn't work in 15-20 years they'll do something different.

[ecbin]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

It's not being a NIMBY to not like "urban" centres like downtown Vancouver or Metrotown. But it seems a bit paranoid to say it's going to turn into anything resembling a ghetto. Urban planning is just an organized experiment to just try whatever is the current fad. If it doesn't work in 15-20 years they'll do something different.

Don't get me wrong here - I love the West End (and most of downtown Vancouver) but I hate what's becoming of Brentwood and Metrotown (and Lougheed). Vancouver planners can be a pain in the ass with all their rules but downtown Vancouver is fantastic especially considering the density.

I also love Manhattan, Hong Kong, Tokyo, and London - my favourite places in the world are all dense urban centres. The energy (even as a deep introvert who avoids people all the time) and how these cities have made the density accessible is amazing. I love visiting all of them and I would live in each one of them.

It's the way Burnaby is approaching their urban centres that's nothing short of grotesque. There's no character, no energy, no culture, nothing but just boxes that hold people who then leave to somewhere else. Highgate is the only development that has any sense of scale and character and they built it in the WRONG place (nowhere near Edmonds station).

I think we'll look back in 50 years with a lot of regret about bad leadership, bad planning, and greed resulted in so much wasted opportunity to create a beautiful urban centre.

[BaddieB]

The problem with Metrotown and Brentwood is they are designed around the car and that every block is 'master planned', meaning there is very little "organic space". That is to say smaller stores that can allow for local businesses like you see on Davie or Denman. No medians in between sidewalks and streets where people can garden. No quiet main streets like Davie or Denman because the main streets are designed for push through as many cars as possible. No big parks like English Bay beach that act as an anchor as to why that neighbourhood exists. The only public areas are privately owned by the mall.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by ecbin

Don't get me wrong here - I love the West End (and most of downtown Vancouver) but I hate what's becoming of Brentwood and Metrotown (and Lougheed). Vancouver planners can be a pain in the ass with all their rules but downtown Vancouver is fantastic especially considering the density.

I also love Manhattan, Hong Kong, Tokyo, and London - my favourite places in the world are all dense urban centres. The energy (even as a deep introvert who avoids people all the time) and how these cities have made the density accessible is amazing. I love visiting all of them and I would live in each one of them.

It's the way Burnaby is approaching their urban centres that's nothing short of grotesque. There's no character, no energy, no culture, nothing but just boxes that hold people who then leave to somewhere else. Highgate is the only development that has any sense of scale and character and they built it in the WRONG place (nowhere near Edmonds station).

I think we'll look back in 50 years with a lot of regret about bad leadership, bad planning, and greed resulted in so much wasted opportunity to create a beautiful urban centre.

But all those great urban cities did that just come as a result of stuffing a lot of people into a small place and gradually migrating to that urban form? More than any zoning/policy direction from urban planners etc?

The only saving grace is that these areas are still surrounded by massive areas of suburban SFH sprawl so I mean they could always try to correct their mistakes in design over there (not in terms of more tower housing but some kind of art/cultural zones)

[Migrant_Coconut]

I can see the point - this is the urban planning equivalent of trying to fit the word count on an essay

[WBC]

Originally Posted by BaddieB

The problem with Metrotown and Brentwood is they are designed around the car and that every block is 'master planned', meaning there is very little "organic space". That is to say smaller stores that can allow for local businesses like you see on Davie or Denman. No medians in between sidewalks and streets where people can garden. No quiet main streets like Davie or Denman because the main streets are designed for push through as many cars as possible. No big parks like English Bay beach that act as an anchor as to why that neighbourhood exists. The only public areas are privately owned by the mall.

I lived in Metrotown for 25 years. The problem remains what the problem was 25 years ago...The mall sucks in all the people and makes the streets around it dead. Majority of the stores outside of the mall are largely dead or just rundown ruins. Add on top of that car centric design of the olden days and terrible disjointed planning and you get this monstrosity.

The Station Square redevelopment and the restaurant row are the first steps in good direction but even there integration with the Metrotown Mall is barely acceptable particularly from the Kingsway side. IMHO, Silver Drive should have been a pedestrian street.

[GenWhy?]

Metrotown and Brentwood have only recently started their urban transformation. The two malls are still fully (largely) untouched. Brentwood's new "front door" plaza is a great addition, it's just that the south and west parcels are incomplete, which makes it all feel disjointed - like large sections of Broadway or Hastings in Vancouver.