Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

And it's getting support from a lot of Greenland separatists as a formula for realistic independence.

No it's not.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

No it's not.

That's opposing American annexation, and CFA status is not annexation; it's independence.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Perhaps Canada needs to think about a similar arrangement, adding Nunavut into the mix.

I've just discovered that French is an official language of Nunavut. En quel honneur ?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

That's opposing American annexation, and CFA status is not annexation; it's independence.

They want neither annexation nor CFA status. They want full independence from both Denmark and the US, period.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

They want neither annexation nor CFA status. They want full independence from both Denmark and the US, period.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/ar...reenland-stoke-sovereigntists-hopes-for/

Sovereigntists in Greenland hope Trump’s advances could open door to independence.

Independence has been a dream of many Greenlanders for decades, and some sovereigntists see Mr. Trump’s outbursts as a powerful lever that could help make it happen.

“Donald Trump has put Greenland on the map and now the focus is not on Copenhagen. The focus is on Nuuk,” said Kuno Fencker, an MP from the Siumut party, which is part of Greenland’s governing coalition.

Denmark has controlled the island since the early 1700s, and while Greenland has been given autonomy over a number of areas, Copenhagen still has decision-making authority when it comes to foreign policy and defence. Mr. Fencker said it’s time for Greenland to stand on its own.

“Greenland should be able to negotiate directly, without the middleman of Denmark, in regards to our foreign policies as a sovereign state,” he said, adding that annexation by the U.S. is not the issue. “It’s non-negotiable in regards to our aspirations to become a sovereign state. We are absolutely willing to make a compact or free association with Denmark and the U.S.”

The first step, he added, was weaning Greenland off its reliance on Denmark, which provides more than half of the local government’s budget. That requires diversifying the local economy away from fishing and developing Greenland’s vast mineral wealth. The U.S., he argued, was better placed to provide that investment than Denmark or any other world power, such as China, which also has designs on Greenland.

Denmark annexed Greenland without any local consent, he noted, “so they’re no better than the statements of Donald Trump.”

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I've just discovered that French is an official language of Nunavut. En quel honneur ?

Life in Nunavut primarily happens in the indigenous Inuit languages, and English & French are administrative languages due to the territory being basically governed by bureaucrats from Ottawa. Attempts at increasing Inuit control over the territorial bureaucracy have not succeeded as well as people hoped. Although in the capital Iqaluit English is spoken at home by something like 40% of the population with Inuktitut at 50%, IIRC. In the villages Inuit languages are more dominant.

[kwoldtimer]

French is an official language in Yukon and the Northwest Territories as well, no?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/ar...reenland-stoke-sovereigntists-hopes-for/

Nowhere it says CFA status. Besides, it's now proven that the supposed wish of the independence leaders to come under US sovereignty was in fact a letter to some US senators that was FORGED by Russia (it seems Trump's fantasy about Greenland comes from that Russian-forged letter... another success of Moscow's foreign destabilization).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

French is an official language in Yukon and the Northwest Territories as well, no?

Testing the reality of that on the ground might be amusing though.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I've just discovered that French is an official language of Nunavut. En quel honneur ?

At first sight it’s logical that the three Federal territories, managed directly by Ottawa, would have the same official languages as the Federal government, regardless of the reality on the ground.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Nowhere it says CFA status. Besides, it's now proven that the supposed wish of the independence leaders to come under US sovereignty was in fact a letter to some US senators that was FORGED by Russia (it seems Trump's fantasy about Greenland comes from that Russian-forged letter... another success of Moscow's foreign destabilization).

I literally bolded Kuno Fencker's use of the exact phrase "compact of free association". Mr. Fencker is an member of Parliament from the governing party in Greenland.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I literally bolded Kuno Fencker's use of the exact phrase "compact of free association". Mr. Fencker is an member of Parliament from the governing party in Greenland.

"A compact or free association with Denmark and the U.S".

Legally that means nothing, unless they mean a condominium. In any case that's not what you're referring to.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

"A compact or free association with Denmark and the U.S".

Legally that means nothing, unless they mean a condominium. In any case that's not what you're referring to.

Willing to make one with either/or.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

At first sight it’s logical that the three Federal territories, managed directly by Ottawa, would have the same official languages as the Federal government, regardless of the reality on the ground.

That's actually the exact reason why all three territories have French as an official language.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Willing to make one with either/or.

That's actually a pretty big deal that he said that, given that Greenland has shared and still shares an administrative relationship with Denmark that goes back 1000 years.

He is equating Denmark, their "parent nation" since forever and still today, with the US which has no such relationship and is making semi-aggressive overtures towards Greenland (and therefore Denmark).

It's almost as if François Legault was equating Canada and the US as potential "homes" for Quebec.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That's actually a pretty big deal that he said that, given that Greenland has shared and still shares an administrative relationship with Denmark that goes back 1000 years.

He is equating Denmark, their "parent nation" since forever and still today, with the US which has no such relationship and is making semi-aggressive overtures towards Greenland (and therefore Denmark).

It's almost as if François Legault was equating Canada and the US as potential "homes" for Quebec.

I've been semi-aware of Greenland's politics for a while and have been giving myself a more thorough look these last few months (I become very online during the winters...) and I do find it quite interesting just how little Greenlanders seem to care for Denmark and the historical connection.

It should be noted, though, that the connection isn't as deep as it seems at first glance. The 1000 years ago thing was a brief Viking settlement in parts of Southern Greenland that disappeared by the 14th century, although Denmark-Norway did claim the entire island of Greenland as their territory continuously from the Middle Ages onwards. But "modern" Danish sovereignty only began in the 1700s with the arrival of Christian missionaries from Denmark. And even then, Denmark largely ignored Greenland all the up until WW2.. when the Americans occupied it to prevent the Nazis from taking control of it after the fall of Denmark. So while Danish sovereignty has existed since the Viking era on paper, for Greenlandic Inuit, Denmark was not a thing on the ground until the mid 20th century. As late as 1930, the majority of Greenlanders would probably have never seen a Danish person in their entire lives.

The Danish also did some nasty things in the 1950s-1970s era to the Greenlanders, but it's really no worse than anything any other European power did to indigenous peoples of the Americas. In any case, the Greenlandic Inuit have probably fared better under Danish rule than the Nunavut Inuit have under Canadian rule. Yet Greenlanders have a very strong separatist sentiment. They'd leave in a heartbeat if they felt they could afford it.

[Acajack]

Aren’t almost all Greenlanders mixed Inuit-Danish at this point?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I've been semi-aware of Greenland's politics for a while and have been giving myself a more thorough look these last few months (I become very online during the winters...)

I've been following Greenlandic news for a tad longer than you.

By the way, did you know that the capital city of Greenland is warmer in winter than Montréal?

I see Montréal has had a pretty cold winter so far. So much for global warming! Not quite there yet those warm winters... Nothing beats California despite the fires.

PS: Christmas day last month:
- Montréal: morning -16.1C / afternoon -7.1C
- Nuuk (capital city of Greenland): morning -12.9C / afternoon -6.1C

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Aren’t almost all Greenlanders mixed Inuit-Danish at this point?

Yes, although that doesn't mean much to them.

[mousquet]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I've been following Greenlandic news for a tad longer than you.

I don't believe you.
Nobody cares about Greenland on a daily basis. Too few people out there.

Also, stop acting as if weather forecast and climate study were the same thing.
You know well that climatologists study the long run, while meteorologists work on the very short term to try to predict weather a few days ahead.
These are just not the same disciplines.

Like, oh, it was -1°C here in Paris last night, so climate change is fake.
Everybody knows winter was still kind of way colder on average even in the mid 20th century, even 50 years ago in the Paris region.
You don't even need a scientist to say so. The memories of locals are sufficient.
So yeah, climate change is more than very likely to be real and even faster than expected.

You like to read piles of numbers meant for statistics? Then I guess you found out already.

Donald Trump might be interested in Greenland because of ores supposedly in their subsoil.
Drill, baby, drill!
I would send him drill on his own in Greenland, that could be funny. It's like freaking Siberia. We'd see how actually badass he can be. The old fart lives in Florida. Donald Trump vs the Gulag!
If it was easy and harmless, the Danes would've drilled it by now. You don't seriously think an American bumpkin like Donald Trump would be smarter than the Danish government, right?