California High Speed Rail Thread

[sopas ej]

Whenever Republicans try to "streamline government" and make it "more efficient," they usually make it more complicated and less streamlined. Remember Bush II??

The upcoming "Department of Government Efficiency" (LOL) plans on cutting funding to CAHSR.

From KTLA5 News:

New bill could halt federal funding for California High-Speed Rail Authority project

by: Iman Palm
Posted: Dec 11, 2024 / 02:08 PM PST
Updated: Dec 11, 2024 / 02:59 PM PST

U.S. Rep. Kevin Kiley (R-Roseville) announced Wednesday that he plans to introduce a bill to eliminate federal funding for the California High-Speed Rail project.

“California’s high-speed rail project has failed because of political ineptitude, and there is no plausible scenario where the cost to federal or state taxpayers can be justified,” Kiley said in a statement. “Our share of federal transportation funding should go towards real infrastructure needs, such as improving roads that rank among the worst in the country.”

In its final form, the California High-Speed Rail Authority will transport passengers from as far north as Sacramento to as far south as San Diego. However, it is probably best known as a connector between Los Angeles and the Bay Area.

[...]

[Busy Bee]

The next few years are going to be hard on the heart to say the very least.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by SoCalKid

All of this is true, but I think jmecklenborg's implication was that if Newsom really wanted to push the project forward, he would have proposed additional money for it in his budget during the few years where there were $50B-$100B surpluses. Yes, the legislature needs to pass a budget, and maybe there would have been resistance, but it was clearly not something he cared much about.

Democrats have had super majorities in both chambers and the governor's mansion for many years and this project has not made much progress. While it's disappointing to see Elon Musk coming after the project (again), I think jmecklenborg's point is that when it comes down to it, California Democrats only have themselves to blame for the lack of progress.

Thanks, that's pretty much what I was saying. Jerry Brown's second tenure in the governor's mansion was the end of his career - that's why he was able to go to bat for this project. Meanwhile, Newsom has always had his eye on the White House, meaning he can't take any risks.

The ideal mayor for any city is a guy who has no ambitions beyond that seat. Same for governors.

Musk is trying to privatize everything to his favor. Make no mistake - he quite literally wants to personally take over Mars. In a worst-case scenario, we will see his obnoxious companies make that planet somehow worse than it is right now. Instead of merely being a cold an inhospitable place, it's going to be cold, inhospitable, and full of advertising. He might even rename the goddamn planet after himself.

All of Musk's public transportation endeavors area —. The Vegas thing is just advertising for his dorky cars.

[jmecklenborg]

A new video just appeared for the Palmdale-Burbank project section. The final design will be one 13-mile tunnel, one 12-mile tunnel, and a 1-mile tunnel punctuating the surface-running section between the two long tunnels:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5O94Mezy14

So it appears that we're seeing the same strategy here as with the 13-mile Pacheco Pass tunnel - the tunnel lengths were dictated by the need to limit the tunnels to one train. It would be interesting to know what safety provisions, specifically, are required to build a tunnel that can handle two trains traveling in the same direction at the same time. This is happening in the new base tunnels in Austria and Switzerland, which are much longer than this trio of 12-13~ mile-long tunnels.

[Busy Bee]

^ I'd like to know what you're talking about but I can't say that I do. Please clarify.

[craigs]

• Video Link

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

So it appears that we're seeing the same strategy here as with the 13-mile Pacheco Pass tunnel - the tunnel lengths were dictated by the need to limit the tunnels to one train. It would be interesting to know what safety provisions, specifically, are required to build a tunnel that can handle two trains traveling in the same direction at the same time. This is happening in the new base tunnels in Austria and Switzerland, which are much longer than this trio of 12-13~ mile-long tunnels.

Where are you getting this and what exactly are you talking about? Theoretically would same direction trains even be scheduled close enoigh to be in the basin tunnel at the same time?

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Where are you getting this and what exactly are you talking about? Theoretically would same direction trains even be scheduled close enoigh to be in the basin tunnel at the same time?

A longer tunnel that can handle 2 trains spaces 15~ miles apart might require a third center access tunnel (like the Chunnel and Alps base tunnels) along with very expensive fire suppression equipment and other provisions. For example, the LIRR's East Side Access project includes a huge amount of safety equipment and full-time staff since the approach tunnel and station has a capacity of over 12 trains.

Similarly, the capacity of the LA red line is limited to 5~ minute headways because necessary safety provisions weren't built into the tunnel between Universal City and Hollywood/Highland.

[Busy Bee]

Do we even know if that's the reason it daylights and is broken into two segments though? Has that been said by the authority? I've been following the tunnel alignment saga for years and I know much of the concerns are avoiding this area or that while keeping it as close to the surface as possible. I just assumed the final plan was a culmination of issues but I don't think I've ever read a specific reasoning for not having a single deep tunnel.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Do we even know if that's the reason it daylights and is broken into two segments though? Has that been said by the authority?

I believe that the authority has purposefully kept quiet about the reason for the daylighting. The opponents would have a field day with the fire & safety concerns of a super-long tunnel.

[Easy]

Originally Posted by Crawford

IMO it makes sense to hunker down for four painful years, hope you-know-who is too distracted by other shiny things to bother with attacks on high profile transit initiatives, and hope 2028 gifts us a pro-transit POTUS like Whitmer, Shapiro, Newsom or Buttigieg.

The "good" thing is that we're likely to enter peak chaos, and CAHSR likely won't be in the national spotlight.

I've been criticized on this thread for my views, but I'm still extremely worried about Phase I. I have a hard time believing it will have decent ridership, even though I believe the full buildout would be very successful. If Phase I disappoints under a right-wing Washington, there would be blowback.

Newsom isn't really pro-CAHSR. He initially called for it not to be completed to Los Angeles but backtracked after the federal government rightfully said fine, then give us our money back.

[Busy Bee]

^ That was a shrewd domestic political move. I don't believe Newsom was ever really showing a lack of commitment to the full program and in the unlikely event he was to ever make it to the White House I have little doubt he would make as much funding available that didnt have the appearence of preferentiality.

[PPQ]

So shrewd that it cost the project a billion dollars.

[jmecklenborg]

Newsom is speaking right now on HSR, here is the livestream:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeDORT4PStE

[jmecklenborg]

CAHR director talked about:
-shared CAHSR and Brightline service through the two long tunnels to Palmdale being used by commuters

Kern County lady:
-spent her time kissing Newsom's — with political vagueries

Labor Union guy:
-can't stop talking vaguely about jobs, careers, jobs, apprenticeships, jobs, "thriving".

Pile Driver's Local #34:
-happy that he gets to drive piles within commuting distance of his house, talked about apprenticeships

Gov. Newsom:
-talks about "lifting people up" and helping people "to be heard". It's about "upzoning around the rail" and "building human capital". "15,000 jobs is a big damn deal". "We are here to lay some track...". "We have procured 2,270 parcels". "This thing is substantially permitted...that's a big-damn deal".

"Looking at sharing design costs with Brightline/High Desert Corridor...". "A few months from making firm commitments on trainsets...".

He closed by bragging that California has a 3.8 billion GDP...he meant to say trillion. I hope that he knows that there are 1,000 billion in a trillion, but I have definitely been around politicians who can't do budget math.

[Busy Bee]

It's about time tracklaying began.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

He closed by bragging that California has a 3.8 billion GDP...he meant to say trillion. I hope that he knows that there are 1,000 billion in a trillion, but I have definitely been around politicians who can't do budget math.

Newsom has dyslexia and is unable to use a teleprompter like other politicians do. He often memorizes his remarks, but it's easy to see why he would make a mistake given all that.

[SoCalKid]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

^ That was a shrewd domestic political move. I don't believe Newsom was ever really showing a lack of commitment to the full program and in the unlikely event he was to ever make it to the White House I have little doubt he would make as much funding available that didnt have the appearence of preferentiality.

What type of weird 3D chess is it to support a project by saying you will no longer support the majority of it. His announcement that he would only pursue the Central Valley portion was a massive political blow to the project.

The reality is that the only thing Newsom cares about is Newsom's political career, so he would support it in future roles only if he thought it was politically expedient. I'm convinced the guy would be happy to go full MAGA or full socialist if he thought that would help his career.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by SoCalKid

What type of weird 3D chess is it to support a project by saying you will no longer support the majority of it. His announcement that he would only pursue the Central Valley portion was a massive political blow to the project.

The reality is that the only thing Newsom cares about is Newsom's political career, so he would support it in future roles only if he thought it was politically expedient. I'm convinced the guy would be happy to go full MAGA or full socialist if he thought that would help his career.

Leaving partisan politics aside, the Central Valley segment is being prioritized right now because there is sufficient funding to complete it. The other segments? Not so much.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by SoCalKid

What type of weird 3D chess is it to support a project by saying you will no longer support the majority of it.

Obviously he is passing the buck. I suspect that what they're planning to do is team with Nevada/Brightline so that it's not just "California" lobbying for federal $'s to build the tunneled approach to LA. They're going to wait and wait and wait until they get it for pretty close to free. The Pacheco Pass Tunnel can't play the same game since there won't be an interlined service coming in from Nevada.

Ohio and Kentucky lobbied Bush, Obama, Trump, and then Biden to get a new I-75 bridge over the Ohio River paid for pretty much entirely by the federal government. The formal effort began in 2001 and they just started preliminary construction work in 2024. So no fewer than 23 years.