Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[ToxiK]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Could it be that being economically superior to "the French" is an essential part of Anglo-Canada's self-image?

I think it is. Not for everyone, of course, but it is for a significant part of the population. It is not always obvious, but just the "normal order of things". When Québec gets some success economically, there is always an excuse to explain it. Québec developed its Hydro ressources; yeah but they steal most from NFLD, so it doesn't really count. Bombardier becomes a major player in aerospace; it is just because of CANADIAN subsidies. Québec gets the highest proportion of women in the job market in part because of the success of7$ a day daycare; Alberta pays for all of it.

Helping flatter ROC egos is one of the unspoken functions on Québec in Canada.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

If he becomes prime minister, French journalists will have a hard time writing his name. I think many journalists will just write "Leblanc", as writing "LeBlanc" seems as weird as writing "CaNada".

Americans of French (often Canadian) origins also do this, so you see names written like DuChamp, DuPont, DuCharme and DesChenes a lot down there.

[Acajack]

I had forgetten this possible francophone Liberal leader and eventual Prime Minister: Mélanie Joly.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Agreed. Though I find he is slightly better than Justin Trudeau in non-scripted French.

There is still a contrast between LeBlanc's more sedated, slow and cautious French and that of someone who is very quick on their feet and totally at ease in the language like the journalist who is interviewing him (Patrice Roy).

Trudeau has a slightly better accent. My naive take on hearing them (and knowing nothing about their backgrounds) would be:
- LeBlanc: "Hm, his French is pretty good for an Anglophone."
- Trudeau: "Hm, his French is rusty, he speaks English too often, he's forgetting his native French."

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Trudeau has a slightly better accent. My naive take on hearing them (and knowing nothing about their backgrounds) would be:
- LeBlanc: "Hm, his French is pretty good for an Anglophone."
- Trudeau: "Hm, his French is rusty, he speaks English too often, he's forgetting his native French."

Trudeau sounds less bookish in French than LeBlanc does. Closer to how the average person speaks but not quite exactly right on it, with some anglo inflections.

LeBlanc's accent is weird mix between the anglophone, Acadien and even some Euro-French inflections that I pick up on.

LeBlanc's education was all in anglophone institutions:

Lisgar Collegiate Institute (high school)
University of Toronto
University of New Brunswick
Harvard University

Justin Trudeau's education was split more between francophone and anglophone institutions, including some time at Lycée Claudel in Ottawa (which follows the French system from France) and Collège Jean-de-Brébeuf in Montreal for high school, which is the most prestigious private school in Quebec.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I had forgetten this possible francophone Liberal leader and eventual Prime Minister: Mélanie Joly.

Ah, there's a proper Francophone, fast and fluent.

PS: "Découvrabilité" n'existe pas however.

• Video Link

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I had forgetten this possible francophone Liberal leader and eventual Prime Minister: Mélanie Joly.

And F-P Champagne as well. Not sure he’d be interested right now but he could plausibly go against PP in the 2029 election.

[Acajack]

Here is former Liberal leader Stéphane Dion having trouble with English. He lost the subsequent federal election to Stephen Harper. Dion was a professor at the Université de Montréal, and the son of a notable Québécois political scientist. His mother was from France. He later became Canada's ambassador in Paris.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3X_BUUZkZ8

This interview was done in Atlantic Canada. Note that the host has a very slight Irish inflection in his accent. His last name is Murphy. It's common in Atlantic Canada to have Irish or Scottish influences in some people's accents.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

And F-P Champagne as well. Not sure he’d be interested right now but he could plausibly go against PP in the 2029 election.

Yes, him too. Though he and Joly could both lose their seats this year.

He's also been a much more competent minister than Joly, I would say.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by ToxiK

I think it is. Not for everyone, of course, but it is for a significant part of the population. It is not always obvious, but just the "normal order of things". When Québec gets some success economically, there is always an excuse to explain it. Québec developed its Hydro ressources; yeah but they steal most from NFLD, so it doesn't really count. Bombardier becomes a major player in aerospace; it is just because of CANADIAN subsidies. Québec gets the highest proportion of women in the job market in part because of the success of7$ a day daycare; Alberta pays for all of it.

Helping flatter ROC egos is one of the unspoken functions on Québec in Canada.

Yeah people are always jealous of course all of the above is true to a greater or lesser extent. The oil sands was developed from Federal funding and tax breaks. The Ontario car industry from hard ball trade policy that risked agriculture trade. And I guess both are as unappreciative.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Trudeau sounds less bookish in French than LeBlanc does. Closer to how the average person speaks but not quite exactly right on it, with some anglo inflections.

LeBlanc's accent is weird mix between the anglophone, Acadien and even some Euro-French inflections that I pick up on.

LeBlanc's education was all in anglophone institutions:

Lisgar Collegiate Institute (high school)
University of Toronto
University of New Brunswick
Harvard University

Justin Trudeau's education was split more between francophone and anglophone institutions, including some time at Lycée Claudel in Ottawa (which follows the French system from France) and Collège Jean-de-Brébeuf in Montreal for high school, which is the most prestigious private school in Quebec.

You may consider Dominic more anglophone than francophone, but, in terms of cultural affinity, I can guarantee you that he is 100% Acadian.

He is essentially a patron of l'Universite de Moncton, having secured an amazing amount of federal funding for programs at this francophone provincial institution. He is also a patron of Acadian culture in southeastern NB, constantly finding funds for Acadian theatre companies and events. He recieves all his health care at l'Hopitale Dr. Georges-L. Dumont and, with his lymphoma diagnosis at tertiary care francophone hospitals in Montreal. You don't see any of his porkbarrelling enthusiasm directed towards the anglophone community in southeastern NB, and he is rarely present at any anglophone events (although I did see him once at a football game at Mount Allison University just prior to the last election). This sighting was so rare as to be notable.

Dominic LeBlanc is an Acadian francophone to the core.

[harls]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Here is former Liberal leader Stéphane Dion having trouble with English. He lost the subsequent federal election to Stephen Harper. Dion was a professor at the Université de Montréal, and the son of a notable Québécois political scientist. His mother was from France. He later became Canada's ambassador in Paris.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3X_BUUZkZ8

This interview was done in Atlantic Canada. Note that the host has a very slight Irish inflection in his accent. His last name is Murphy. It's common in Atlantic Canada to have Irish or Scottish influences in some people's accents.

Not sure if the reporter's accent were as neutral as a google assistant Dion would have fared better.

[MolsonExport]

Jean Chrétien often struggled in English (and some say, in French....although I figure it was due to his partial facial paralysis).

Canadians loved him anyways. When the Conservatives ran an attack ad that drew attention to Chrétien's partial facial paralysis, it completely backfired.

Chrétien stated that "God gave me a physical defect, and I've accepted that since [I was] a kid." Chrétien poked fun at himself, saying "It's true, that I speak on one side of my mouth. I'm not a Tory, I don't speak on both sides of my mouth."

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by harls

Not sure if the reporter's accent were as neutral as a google assistant Dion would have fared better.

Definitely agree. It was pretty clear, and the journalist's accent wasn't really that thick.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

You may consider Dominic more anglophone than francophone, but, in terms of cultural affinity, I can guarantee you that he is 100% Acadian.

He is essentially a patron of l'Universite de Moncton, having secured an amazing amount of federal funding for programs at this francophone provincial institution. He is also a patron of Acadian culture in southeastern NB, constantly finding funds for Acadian theatre companies and events. He recieves all his health care at l'Hopitale Dr. Georges-L. Dumont and, with his lymphoma diagnosis at tertiary care francophone hospitals in Montreal. You don't see any of his porkbarrelling enthusiasm directed towards the anglophone community in southeastern NB, and he is rarely present at any anglophone events (although I did see him once at a football game at Mount Allison University just prior to the last election). This sighting was so rare as to be notable.

Dominic LeBlanc is an Acadian francophone to the core.

I have no doubt that that is where his loyalties lie.

[New Brisavoine]

Reaction by a respected French Twitter account (with 29,000 followers) after I posted the Le Devoir article about Québec passing Ontario in GDP per capita.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Here is former Liberal leader Stéphane Dion having trouble with English. He lost the subsequent federal election to Stephen Harper. Dion was a professor at the Université de Montréal, and the son of a notable Québécois political scientist. His mother was from France. He later became Canada's ambassador in Paris.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3X_BUUZkZ8

This interview was done in Atlantic Canada. Note that the host has a very slight Irish inflection in his accent. His last name is Murphy. It's common in Atlantic Canada to have Irish or Scottish influences in some people's accents.

Pauline Marois as prime minister of Canada, now THAT would be interesting!

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

And F-P Champagne as well.

Judging from his videos, he also speaks fast and fluent French like a real native speaker.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Could it be that being economically superior to "the French" is an essential part of Anglo-Canada's self-image?

Historically accurate, yes. Essential part of self-image, no. I've never heard any Canadian advocate for an economically weak Quebec.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I've never heard any Canadian advocate for an economically weak Quebec.

Of course they wouldn't, but it's hard to escape the fact that historical legacies linger. And I have no qualms admitting that for the French (and also the British), being economically superior to the Italians is part of our self-image, and we would be quite peeved if the Italians suddenly passed us in GDP per capita. In fact when Italy passed the UK briefly in the 1980s the British press was quite hysterical.

On top of this historical feeling of economic superiority, perhaps there's also the fact that Anglo-Canada perceives Québec as having a better lifestyle, the good life, etc., so the idea is: perhaps it's less fun in Anglo-Canada, but at least we're richer. So now if Québec not only has the good lifestyle, but ALSO becomes richer than Anglo-Canada, what's left to us? I wouldn't be surprised if that plays a role too. In Europe if Spain and Italy suddenly had a higher GDP per capita than Northern Europe, on top of already being known for having a better lifestyle, sun and beaches, Northern Europe would be quite annoyed indeed.