CF Pacific Centre Developments

[officedweller]

The Nordstrom reno was by Abbarch Architecture / James KM Cheng Architects.
Abbarch also did the really awful Sears renovations with the oversized frames added onto the old marble aggregate panels.

[s211]

It's interesting to read people continue to crap on CF and claim that CF doesn't know what it's doing. It's standard market practice to keep your cards as close to your chest as possible and not telegraph the details until necessary.

No public news is not always bad news. Personally, I'm largely assured that well-established teams within and working for CF do know their stuff.

For the record, I'm not affiliated with anyone involved in this redevelopment project. I just have a sense of how very large real estate groups function. I'm not asking you to trust me. Just understand institutional real estate a little better.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by s211

It's interesting to read people continue to crap on CF and claim that CF doesn't know what it's doing. It's standard market practice to keep your cards as close to your chest as possible and not telegraph the details until necessary.

No public news is not always bad news. Personally, I'm largely assured that well-established teams within and working for CF do know their stuff.

For the record, I'm not affiliated with anyone involved in this redevelopment project. I just have a sense of how very large real estate groups function. I'm not asking you to trust me. Just understand institutional real estate a little better.

I just find the argument to be a little simplistic to say "empty building" = bad management. Unless you know 1) the lease terms Four Seasons was on and how it compares to bringing in a new operator 2) replacing the building with more density/mixed-use.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by s211

It's interesting to read people continue to crap on CF and claim that CF doesn't know what it's doing. It's standard market practice to keep your cards as close to your chest as possible and not telegraph the details until necessary.

No public news is not always bad news. Personally, I'm largely assured that well-established teams within and working for CF do know their stuff.

For the record, I'm not affiliated with anyone involved in this redevelopment project. I just have a sense of how very large real estate groups function. I'm not asking you to trust me. Just understand institutional real estate a little better.

The fact that CF kicked out a long term tenant, started work on the building and then stopped doesn’t inspire confidence they had some shrewd strategy they were keeping to themselves.

[officedweller]

Covid also intervened and messed up the hotel industry.

[s211]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The fact that CF kicked out a long term tenant, started work on the building and then stopped doesn’t inspire confidence they had some shrewd strategy they were keeping to themselves.

Without going into detail, halting the renovation was most very likely due to a change in a couple of civic regs/policies.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by whatnext

The fact that CF kicked out a long term tenant, started work on the building and then stopped doesn’t inspire confidence they had some shrewd strategy they were keeping to themselves.

It means nothing. They dumped a lot of money into renovating the old Sears/Eatons for Nordstroms and they just decided to jump ship. When you have as large of a portfolio as CF then you have some leeway in not caring about short term blips in revenue.

[officedweller]

Pic by me tonight.
Canaccord Tower, post-Canaccord (which moved to The Stack)>

[jollyburger]

MNP took floors 16-24 (except for 18)

At least MNP's new sign looks nicer



https://naiopvcr.com/page/OfficeLease2024crea

They haven't applied for the sign permit yet. Maybe they'll call it MNP Tower 2?

[officedweller]

Aren't they leaving the current MNP Tower?

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Aren't they leaving the current MNP Tower?

Sorry just joking.. There's a bunch of floors available in August. It sounds like they had 7 floors with an option for 2 additional floors when it opened.

https://www.oxfordproperties.com/lease/office/mnp-tower

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Changing City

If that's true, it was because they weren't spending any of the money they were making on the 'tired, outdated appearance' that CF said was the reason for ending the lease.

Four Seasons also said (in 2018) that when they had plans to reopen elsewhere in the city. I don't think they have? Interestingly, the Vancouver hotel was the only hotel in the chain that was both owned (as an entity, not as a building) and managed by Four Seasons. All their other hotels are purely a management arrangement - a model they moved to in 1974 after cost over-runs fitting out the Vancouver hotel. These days Bill Gates owns a majority of the hotel company.

Oh really? I've seen worse: eg. Pan Pacific Hotel, etc. The lobby and Yew lounge/restaurant were always popular with visitors, and looked crowded before the hotel's closure. Furthermore 4Seasons denied the accusation. The hotel may not be the most updated, but I feel you are biased to be solely on the side of CF.

4Seasons Vancouver before closure. Are these "tired-looking"?
https://www.agoda.com/en-ca/four-seasons...a.html?cid=1844104&ds=yEYJsO%2BFPmBSiFZN

I think 4 Seasons only stated they had plans to open elsewhere in the City ONLY because they were kicked out of Pacific Centre. Just like many other businesses, they simply couldn't find a good spot to plant a new one due to the City's strict rezoning rules and regulations. Looking at Toronto and Kuala Lumpur's new 4Seasons hotel buildings, I doubt these can be built in downtown Vancouver.

Yorkville Toronto's 4Seasons
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6713537,-..._ep=EgoyMDI1MDEwMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Kuala Lumpur's 4Seasons
https://www.google.ca/maps/@3.1588886,10..._ep=EgoyMDI1MDEwMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

I bet they would rather put the money somewhere else.

[bb1510]

Originally Posted by Vin

Oh really? I've seen worse: eg. Pan Pacific Hotel, etc. The lobby and Yew lounge/restaurant were always popular with visitors, and looked crowded before the hotel's closure. Furthermore 4Seasons denied the accusation. The hotel may not be the most updated, but I feel you are biased to be solely on the side of CF.

4Seasons Vancouver before closure. Are these "tired-looking"?
https://www.agoda.com/en-ca/four-seasons...a.html?cid=1844104&ds=yEYJsO%2BFPmBSiFZN

Yeah, very.

A shower/tub combo with a shower curtain is a no-go for a 5 star/diamond property, let alone a Four Seasons. It would be okay as a Westin or a Sheraton

[trofirhen]

I am sorry, but I am confused. At the 4Seasons location, will the new hotel be the present building "tweaked," or a new tower altogether? I'd love to see any renders if there are any to be had. / thank you

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

I think 4 Seasons only stated they had plans to open elsewhere in the City ONLY because they were kicked out of Pacific Centre. Just like many other businesses, they simply couldn't find a good spot to plant a new one due to the City's strict rezoning rules and regulations. Looking at Toronto and Kuala Lumpur's new 4Seasons hotel buildings, I doubt these can be built in downtown Vancouver.

I bet they would rather put the money somewhere else.

Four Seasons didn't develop either of those hotels. They just manage them. Could either of those hotels be built here? Of course they could. There are currently three sizeable hotel projects Downtown, on Granville, Seymour and West Pender. And there's the Bay Parkade site, and a few others, which could be available to develop a new hotel.

The City's strict rezoning rules apply to limiting residential buildings in the CBD precisely because they want to leave the possibility for office and hotels to be developed

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I am sorry, but I am confused. At the 4Seasons location, will the new hotel be the present building "tweaked," or a new tower altogether? I'd love to see any renders if there are any to be had. / thank you

They've just applied to demolish the existing building, down to the fifth floor. They haven't applied for the replacement yet, so there are no renders.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I am sorry, but I am confused. At the 4Seasons location, will the new hotel be the present building "tweaked," or a new tower altogether? I'd love to see any renders if there are any to be had. / thank you

The entire tower will be removed down to the 5th floor.
No renderings yet, way too early for that.

[urbanight93]

Originally Posted by Vin

Oh really? I've seen worse: eg. Pan Pacific Hotel, etc. The lobby and Yew lounge/restaurant were always popular with visitors, and looked crowded before the hotel's closure. Furthermore 4Seasons denied the accusation. The hotel may not be the most updated, but I feel you are biased to be solely on the side of CF.

4Seasons Vancouver before closure. Are these "tired-looking"?
https://www.agoda.com/en-ca/four-seasons...a.html?cid=1844104&ds=yEYJsO%2BFPmBSiFZN

I think 4 Seasons only stated they had plans to open elsewhere in the City ONLY because they were kicked out of Pacific Centre. Just like many other businesses, they simply couldn't find a good spot to plant a new one due to the City's strict rezoning rules and regulations. Looking at Toronto and Kuala Lumpur's new 4Seasons hotel buildings, I doubt these can be built in downtown Vancouver.

Yorkville Toronto's 4Seasons
https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.6713537,-..._ep=EgoyMDI1MDEwMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

Kuala Lumpur's 4Seasons
https://www.google.ca/maps/@3.1588886,10..._ep=EgoyMDI1MDEwMS4wIKXMDSoASAFQAw%3D%3D

I bet they would rather put the money somewhere else.

The room quality review rating is 6/10 ...

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

I am sorry, but I am confused. At the 4Seasons location, will the new hotel be the present building "tweaked," or a new tower altogether? I'd love to see any renders if there are any to be had. / thank you

Originally Posted by Changing City

They've just applied to demolish the existing building, down to the fifth floor. They haven't applied for the replacement yet, so there are no renders.

Thank you for the clarification. / Oh well, now we know there will be design submissions, and renders thereof. / I just hope it wil be a sleek and elegant design, but only time will tell.

[bb1510]

Originally Posted by bb1510

Yeah, very.

A shower/tub combo with a shower curtain is a no-go for a 5 star/diamond property, let alone a Four Seasons. It would be okay as a Westin or a Sheraton

I remembered incorrectly - they don't have a shower curtain but do have a shower/tub combo; these were how the bathrooms looked like, in an executive jr suite







Source: https://pointswise.ca/review-four-seasons-hotel-vancouver-executive-junior-suite/

That's not what you expect from a typical Four Seasons property, especially a corporately owned one, which is typically supposed to be a flagship property. The Park Hyatt in NY is an example of a corporately owned property and it's built to quite a high end standard