CF Pacific Centre Developments

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by whatnext

If I was a CF shareholder I'd be asking why they turfed a long-term tenant like Four Seasons with no real back up plan. Why stick to the "must be a 4 star hotel" rule? I'm sure W or a similar chain would have been happy to commit to renting the existing tower. Now it has sat empty for years and will incur demolition and rebuild costs. It's unlikely office demand will recover to the point where a tower is needed there anytime soon and residential isn't permitted so it will be another hotel tower.

Just because they were a long-term tenant doesn't mean it was making them a lot of money or they would have begged them to renew. And no one was coming into the old tower without extensive renovations which wasn't going to be cheap either.

[NewfBC]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

CityNews just covered the story.

https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2025/01/03/vancouver-four-seasons-hotel-nordstrom-cf-redeveloped/

They literally have the same press release that DH posted but DH said "the spokesperson told Daily Hive Urbanized upon inquiry"

Personally I think DH misread a press release and published that story and tried to weasel out of it by claiming it was a retraction.

I think DH might have got confused about the permit to demo the inside of the Nordstrom space... I think that was posted here?

Ron.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

I think DH might have got confused about the permit to demo the inside of the Nordstrom space... I think that was posted here?

Ron.

Yes on December 27th. But it was pretty clear it was just a demo of the retail levels.

Interior alterations to demo floors 1, 2 & 3 of this Retail tenant at this commercial building on this site.

From a Global BC report on the Four Seasons demolition

In a statement, the City of Vancouver said a Development Permit application DP-2021-01096, submitted in 2022, was under review to permit a major renovation to the building at 609 Granville Street (the former Four Seasons Hotel).

“The applicant has made the decision to change their scope of work, and rather than renovate the building, they will be demolishing the structure. Development Permit application DP-2021-01096 will be withdrawn.

“Development and Building Permit DB-2024-04804 was created on December 3, 2024 for the same building (609 Granville) to deconstruct it from the top level to level 5. This will include removing the concrete façade, columns, slabs and asbestos abatement. This application is currently under review.

https://globalnews.ca/news/10941408/former-luxury-hotel-downtown-vancouver-demolished/

[bb1510]

Originally Posted by whatnext

If I was a CF shareholder I'd be asking why they turfed a long-term tenant like Four Seasons with no real back up plan. Why stick to the "must be a 4 star hotel" rule? I'm sure W or a similar chain would have been happy to commit to renting the existing tower. Now it has sat empty for years and will incur demolition and rebuild costs. It's unlikely office demand will recover to the point where a tower is needed there anytime soon and residential isn't permitted so it will be another hotel tower.

I know for a fact that Marriott is still looking for a Ritz Carlton or a W in town, both of which are 5 star products; for them to reject the existing tower/shell is a clear indication that the base hard product is subpar, even with the pending the capital improvements CF would've made

[Migrant_Coconut]

Seems kind of obvious - if the tower itself was fine, they'd just hand it off to another chain.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Seems kind of obvious - if the tower itself was fine, they'd just hand it off to another chain.

And throw in an increase on the density of the tower.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Seems kind of obvious - if the tower itself was fine, they'd just hand it off to another chain.

Maybe CF didn't need to do all the reno's they started (and then flushed that money down the drain) if they weren't hellbent on a 4 star tenant.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Maybe CF didn't need to do all the reno's they started (and then flushed that money down the drain) if they weren't hellbent on a 4 star tenant.

They didn't start any renovations. They were just gutting it which would still need to be done for any demolition. Their only loss is on the planning/architecture fees.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

They didn't start any renovations. They were just gutting it which would still need to be done for any demolition. Their only loss is on the planning/architecture fees.

Didn't they remove and replace the windows?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Just because they were a long-term tenant doesn't mean it was making them a lot of money or they would have begged them to renew. And no one was coming into the old tower without extensive renovations which wasn't going to be cheap either.

Aren't monthly lease rates or rent fees expected from the hotel irrespective of how much the latter makes? It does not make sense for a luxury hotel to rent cheap from a greedy landlord. Also, I am very sure 4 Seasons actually performed pretty well before it was kicked out.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by NewfBC

I think DH might have got confused about the permit to demo the inside of the Nordstrom space... I think that was posted here?

Ron.

I don't want to reveal too much, but I have good authority that on this issue, if there has been a mistake, it came directly from the horse's mouth and wasn't a misinterpretation on the behalf of DH.

It is interesting that Microsoft's lease expires this year from what I understand.

I guess only time will tell on this one.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Didn't they remove and replace the windows?

I think they just removed them and fitted them with temporary weather protection.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I don't want to reveal too much, but I have good authority that on this issue, if there has been a mistake, it came directly from the horse's mouth and wasn't a misinterpretation on the behalf of DH.

It is interesting that Microsoft's lease expires this year from what I understand.

I guess only time will tell on this one.

I think everyone moved in 2016/2017 so it would make sense on 10 year leases.

Sony is out by June

https://www.cadillacfairview.com/office/leasing/725-granville/

[officedweller]

So for the Nordstrom site, there are 2 heights restrictions at play - the Granville Bridge view cone (was this one relaxed?) and the Robson Square perimeter height restriction.
If the Granville view cone has been relaxed, any tower would be butted up to Granville Street to reduce shadowing over Robson Square.
So we could end up with towers at the 800 Granville (Bonnis) site and kitty corner on the former Nordstrom site.
Also remember that the Best Buy building was also sold (I think), but Marshalls is moving into the old Winners space above, so presumably there's a new lease?

Originally Posted by whatnext

Didn't they remove and replace the windows?

I thought they had, but I think they are still there (reflections look really clean)
- just with wood supports (maybe for plastic sheeting on the inside to contain asbestos)?

Originally Posted by mcminsen

March 19 '22, my pics

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

Also, I am very sure 4 Seasons actually performed pretty well before it was kicked out.

If that's true, it was because they weren't spending any of the money they were making on the 'tired, outdated appearance' that CF said was the reason for ending the lease.

Four Seasons also said (in 2018) that when they had plans to reopen elsewhere in the city. I don't think they have? Interestingly, the Vancouver hotel was the only hotel in the chain that was both owned (as an entity, not as a building) and managed by Four Seasons. All their other hotels are purely a management arrangement - a model they moved to in 1974 after cost over-runs fitting out the Vancouver hotel. These days Bill Gates owns a majority of the hotel company.

[jollyburger]

The VC 12 lost three of the "sliver" mountain view and the remaining one was moved (I assume because that's the side with the new pedestrian/cycling lanes) To the top of the Canaccord/Hudson but on the other side of the bridge. It doesn't extend past that side of the TD tower like in the old viewcone.



https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/granville-bridge-public-view.aspx

The 3.2.2 QE Park viewcone is sort of to the height of the Georgia Residences



https://vancouver.ca/home-property-development/queen-elizabeth-park-public-view.aspx

https://council.vancouver.ca/20240710/documents/pspc1.pdf

[officedweller]

https://guidelines.vancouver.ca/guidelines-downtown-character-area-descriptions.pdf

The Grosvenor Hotel was at 840 Howe.



https://changingvancouver.wordpress.com/2023/07/24/hotel-grosvenor-840-howe-street/

[jollyburger]

RE: Winners/Marshalls. I assume Bonnis was smart enough to have lease terms allowing for the building to eventually be demolished so he can get the maximum value out of any sale of the land/building. TJX probably just kept the same lease and did the name change.

It was on the market a year ago but I think they still own it. In August

That property has not yet been sold, but there are groups actively looking at the property, Bonnis tells STOREYS.

https://storeys.com/bonnis-properties-los-angeles-default/

Here's a short report on the Hotel Georgia redevelopment.

CD-1 Text Amendment (Building Height): 801 West Georgia Street (Hotel Georgia)

https://council.vancouver.ca/20030129/ph3-2.htm

[officedweller]

I wonder if CF would hire a starchitect to design the Four Seasons replacement?
Remember that it had hired Adrian Smith + Gordon Gill for their crystalline office tower at Waterfront Station.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by officedweller

I wonder if CF would hire a starchitect to design the Four Seasons replacement?
Remember that it had hired Adrian Smith + Gordon Gill for their crystalline office tower at Waterfront Station.

I assume if it's a high end hotel client and higher end residential they'll go that route. I'm a pessimist and assume they'll stick with Zeidler.