Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[New Brisavoine]

In other news, 15% of the housing stock on the rental market in Paris was withdrawn from the market yesterday due to holier-than-thou Greenstemist policies (a new law preventing landlords from renting out apartments if their apartments have a theoretical energy consumption higher than a certain threshold, this in the Western country that emits the least CO2 thanks to its nuclear power plants). See, we can do worse than you guys in terms of housing.

The market was already extremely tense (30% less apartments to rent than before Covid-19 due to rent caps introduced by the City of Paris), now it's gonna be catastrophic.

[lio45]

Can’t argue with the fact that becoming homeless greatly reduces one’s carbon footprint.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

That said, Toronto is far, far better when it comes to family-run, grassroots immigrant restaurants offering faithful representations of the food from their home countries. And eventually that will lead to something very interesting when it comes to higher end dining.

That's been the promise for a very long time (as long as I can remember), but this interesting high-end dining fusion cuisine still hasn't materialised in Toronto. I think the issue ultimately comes down to the fact that there's no local cuisine to serve as its foundation.

In Vancouver, local cuisine is at least grounded in local salmon and seafood, heavily influenced by Japanese techniques. In Montreal, it can build its foundation on Quebecois cuisine.

Without this grounding to at least one local cuisine, there's no critical mass of chefs to take Toronto fusion to the next level. Instead, the fusion scene in Toronto just seems to latch on to every global cuisine fad, and it ebbs and flows before it moves onto the next fad.

[Acajack]

People have been saying for ages that something new will materialize in Toronto, but it never does.

Maybe this is just what Toronto is like?

Which is fine. If people stop pretending it is something else.

Toronto is not a year-round beach city with palm trees either.

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

That's been the promise for a very long time (as long as I can remember), but this interesting high-end dining fusion cuisine still hasn't materialised in Toronto. I think the issue ultimately comes down to the fact that there's no local cuisine to serve as its foundation.

In Vancouver, local cuisine is at least grounded in local salmon and seafood, heavily influenced by Japanese techniques. In Montreal, it can build its foundation on Quebecois cuisine.

Without this grounding to at least one local cuisine, there's no critical mass of chefs to take Toronto fusion to the next level. Instead, the fusion scene in Toronto just seems to latch on to every global cuisine fad, and it ebbs and flows before it moves onto the next fad.

[MolsonExport]

While I think Montreal still offers the most unique palate to discerning diners, the ethnic food options in Toronto are peerless in Canada. Montreal and Vancouver have a lot of this, but both lack the critical mass of people in just about every single ethnic group imaginable. Toronto has this.

for example, Montreal has one Chinatown (and a pseudo/emerging-Chinatown in Brossard). Toronto has at least four, and many others in the 905. Toronto has three Koreatowns.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

The ethnic food options in Toronto are peerless in Canada. Montreal and Vancouver have a lot of this, but both lack the critical mass of people in just about every single ethnic group imaginable. Toronto has this.

Definitely agree.

[MolsonExport]

In this way, Toronto is rather like London (England). Incredible ethnic food options/diversity, yet perhaps still lacking in the way of well-known home-grown cuisine (of the sort that Montreal, Paris, New Orleans, Marseilles, etc. are known for...they just so happen to be places founded by the French....except Paris which was first laid down by the Romans...but then again, so was London...and come to think about it, the Greeks founded Marseilles). We can add Naples, Lima, New York, Chicago, and Tokyo to this list.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

for example, Montreal has one Chinatown (and a pseudo/emerging-Chinatown in Brossard). Toronto has at least four, and many others in the 905. Toronto has three Koreatowns.

Brossard is pseudo/emerging?? That's news to locals in that area. I'm sorry but they see themselves as the Markham/Richmond of Montreal. There's a reason why one of the largest T&T in Canada has opened at DiX30.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Brossard is pseudo/emerging?? That's news to locals in that area. I'm sorry but they see themselves as the Markham/Richmond of Montreal. There's a reason why one of the largest T&T in Canada has opened at DiX30.

Brossard is miles away from Richmond or Markham though no? Those have a clear majority of the population from Asia. Brossard is a bigger mix of immigrants and probably still more non-immigrant than immigrant.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Brossard is miles away from Richmond or Markham though no? Those have a clear majority of the population from Asia. Brossard is a bigger mix of immigrants and probably still more non-immigrant than immigrant.

Of course it's not a carbon copy of Richmond/Markham, it's Brossard's relative position in the region. The Asian community's been established there for quite a long time (pre-dates 95 referendum), and many moved out there for the big new McMansions built out on big lots at the time. It's definitely not emerging nor up and coming in 2025.

[MolsonExport]

As a native of Montreal who now lives closer to the GTA, I am a frequent visitor to both urban areas. Markham is Chinese to an extent that nowhere in Montreal is. Likewise for how Indian Brampton is (likewise for much of Mississauga).

It is hard to think of analogous areas in Montreal that are so dominated by one single group over such a broad swathe of territory. Montreal-Nord and Haitians? Definitely Cote-St. Luc and Jews. Once upon a time, Park-Ex and Greeks. Once upon a time, Little Burgundy and African-Canadians. There are massive numbers of Northern Africans/Middle Eastern folk in Montreal...but is there a locale where they are dominant over many blocks?

I used to live next to Cote-des-Neiges, and it was among the most multicultural places on earth that I have ever been to, but it was just that: Multicultural, as opposed to dominated by a single group.

[P'tit Renard]

Everyone who's been to Brossard would know that it's new era car dependent upper middle-class suburb with a sizable Asian influence. That's why they see themselves as the "Markham" of Montreal. There's no other outer Montreal suburb with this kind of ethnic makeup. T&T's business development team clearly knows this established community well, otherwise they wouldn't have dropped a massive T&T in Montérégie.

It doesn't matter if Brossard doesn't have the sheer amount of Asians as the actual Markham. That's not the point.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by lio45

Can’t argue with the fact that becoming homeless greatly reduces one’s carbon footprint.

Unless one is burning random found items to keep warm… like park benches, traffic cones, wooden/plastic signs, etc. Then nuclear generated electricity is starting to look pretty good.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Everyone who's been to Brossard would know that it's new era car dependent upper middle-class suburb with a sizable Asian influence. That's why they see themselves as the "Markham" of Montreal. There's no other outer Montreal suburb with this kind of ethnic makeup. T&T's business development team clearly knows this established community well, otherwise they wouldn't have dropped a massive T&T in Montérégie.

It doesn't matter if Brossard doesn't have the sheer amount of Asians as the actual Markham. That's not the point.

They just opened a massive T&T in my neighborhood. Yes, there are a lot of Asians, but that doesn't make my neighborhood the Markham of London.

https://lfpress.com/business/local-busin...newly-opened-asian-grocer-tt-supermarket

Have I been to Brossard? Perhaps 200 times. On my wife's side, there is family there. For several years, I lived on the South Shore.

anyways, I have nothing further to say on the subject, as anyone's opinions are entirely subjective, as amply demonstrated.

[big T]

I think the point was that within the Montreal area, Brossard now far outranks the historic downtown Chinatown as the centre of Asian culture, and food especially.
That said, I'm curious to see what becomes of Chinatown over the coming decade. It's been slowly transforming and renovating, and the restaurant offerings have upcycled a bit. It needs to x10 the urban renewal, but could turn out quite nice if the stars align I think.

Also, to your point on Côte-des-Neiges -- never really gave it much thought, but now that you mention it I don't think I've been to a more multicultural place anywhere, sq.in for sq.in. Did live there too for a few years, and the mix was sometimes mind blowing, all within a couple blocks.

[Acajack]

Is there not a T&T in Ville St-Laurent as well?

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by big T

I think the point was that within the Montreal area, Brossard now far outranks the historic downtown Chinatown as the centre of Asian culture, and food especially.

Yes, it's surprising that this fact is considered controversial. Unlike the locations in London Ontario or Waterloo Ontario, the T&T in Brossard isn't opened near a U15 university that's popular with Asian students.

That said, I'm curious to see what becomes of Chinatown over the coming decade. It's been slowly transforming and renovating, and the restaurant offerings have upcycled a bit. It needs to x10 the urban renewal, but could turn out quite nice if the stars align I think.

I think a big part of the revival will be dependent on what Montreal does with the Ville-Marie wasteland. Connecting Chinatown to Vieux Montreal with some kind of urban destination/fabric would greatly help with revitalisation of the area.

Originally Posted by Acajack

Is there not a T&T in Ville St-Laurent as well?

It's right at Autoroute 40/15, smack dab in the middle of west island to maximize its catchment area of the dispersed Asian communities living around west island.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

That's been the promise for a very long time (as long as I can remember), but this interesting high-end dining fusion cuisine still hasn't materialised in Toronto. I think the issue ultimately comes down to the fact that there's no local cuisine to serve as its foundation.

In Vancouver, local cuisine is at least grounded in local salmon and seafood, heavily influenced by Japanese techniques. In Montreal, it can build its foundation on Quebecois cuisine.

Without this grounding to at least one local cuisine, there's no critical mass of chefs to take Toronto fusion to the next level. Instead, the fusion scene in Toronto just seems to latch on to every global cuisine fad, and it ebbs and flows before it moves onto the next fad.

I've never understood the North American taste for "fusion". Personally if I want to eat Chinese food I want to eat Chinese food, not fusion. If I want Italian food I want real Italian food, not fusion. Fusion is nothing. It's just fake. It would be like mixing a Goya with a 16th century Chinese painting. It makes no sense.

My personal explanation has always been that North Americans don't know who they are really, so they are a bit confused culturally.

Anyway, 'to each their own' as the parable says. Let those who like "fusion" have their fusion...

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

People have been saying for ages that something new will materialize in Toronto, but it never does.

Maybe this is just what Toronto is like?

Which is fine. If people stop pretending it is something else.

Toronto is not a year-round beach city with palm trees either.

Toronto to me seems to be about never-ending growth. For as long as I can remember on these online forums, that's the only thing the Toronto forumers ever talk about: growth, demographic growth especially, as if it was an end in itself. Never culture, learning, sex, whatever. No, just growth.

I wonder what happens when Toronto stops growing (which it eventually will, as no Western city can possibly grow beyond 20 million people). What then? Just the depression of having no other goal in life?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

for example, Montreal has one Chinatown (and a pseudo/emerging-Chinatown in Brossard). Toronto has at least four, and many others in the 905. Toronto has three Koreatowns.

Only four? I would have imagined more. Paris has three Chinatowns, plus perhaps 1 or 2 more in the suburbs. As well as one Japantown/Koreantown in Rue Ste Anne. But these are not called as such, as having "ethnic neighborhoods" is not a custom here. For example the Japantown/Koreantown is just called "Rue Ste Anne". If you say "on va manger rue Ste Anne ?" people know you're suggesting to go to one of those Japanese/Korean/Taiwanese restaurants on Rue Ste Anne. (in parenthesis, the Taiwanese have congregated with the Japanese, which is very typical if you've already been to Taiwan)