Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I find that hard to reconcile with the cuts of the past six months, as well as comments from responsible ministers. Unless that's not who you mean by "people with power".

They are doing it largely under duress. This is another "we will see how it turns out".

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by someone123

Syria also pops up in the news a lot but that doesn't mean it's more important than Germany.

Ah ah, no. Back when I lived in the US if was Afghanistan, but I can assure your it's nowhere near the presence of Mexico. Mexico is PHYSICALLY there when you live in the US, in your surroundings (flags, cars, guys). Canada simply isn't, except perhaps in the northern confines of Vermont or Maine. Come to think of it, I have never seen a Canadian flag in the US. You see Mexican flags pretty much every week.

Anyway, since we're already in 2025 here, I thought you'd be glad to learn that they treated us to this during the firework at the Arc de Triomphe at midnight. (always moving to hear)

• Video Link

PS: Never come to Paris for the New Year firework. It's just meh... You'd feel gypped. The REAL firework in Paris is on July 14! (although they had a new French singer I had never heard just after the firework who was pretty good tonight, albeit dressed awfully and with a moustache )

[Acajack]

Le Bye Bye on TV tonight. The Québécois Super Bowl for ad ertisers. 70% of people will watch it. Ads sold out in minutes. 100k for a 30 second ad.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

(although they had a new French singer I had never heard just after the firework who was pretty good tonight, albeit dressed awfully and with a moustache )

I was able to find it. If you're curious, here it is (he dresses awfully, and his clothing and facial hair style is ridiculous, but turn off the image and the music is actually pretty good; first time I hear this guy, he was singing in front of tens of thousands of people on the Champs-Elysées just after midnight, and I thought that was the best musical performance by far tonight)

• Video Link

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

The 40% of Francophones who voted against it in 95 are interesting. Many of them would have known they are losing their jobs or voted for other practical reasons so the diehard Francophone federalists are really a small minority.

I think for a lot of them it was the fear of the unknown, which is a natural human thing. For the same reason, if there was a referendum about the republic, probably many people would vote against the republic not because they are monarchist, but simply because it's more comfortable to keep what you know instead of trying out the unknown.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Canada could probably build nukes. We have uranium and we have nuclear know-how and we have enough financial resources.

Impossible as per the Non-Proliferation Treaty. And I doubt Canada wants to become a world pariah like Iran... Most European countries (and in particular nuclear-armed France) would vehemently oppose Canada breaking the NPT. As for the US alt-right, you can imagine what they'd do if their northern 'woke' neighbor tried to acquire a nuclear weapon... Even the Democrats would probably not tolerate it.

PS: In a more realistic scenario, if the US really went wacko, Canada could (and would probably) negotiate some sort of 'nuclear umbrella' with Britain and France if it remained a united country, with both countries offering a nuclear guarantee to Canada, and if Québec seceded then I would imagine that France would offer that guarantee to Québec (and Britain perhaps to the rump Canada, although that would conflict with their 'special relationship' with the US... France would have no such qualms).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by someone123

Yes. They often take economic development and security for granted.

They don't take it for granted (they talk about it all the time actually), but here it's another example of the big cultural divide between Anglo-Saxons and Latin people. For the people in Québec the economy is a mean to an end, not an end in itself. For the Anglo-Saxons the economy often seem an end in and of itself. As we said the other day, what's the point of living to become the richest man in the cemetery?

Another major cultural divide between our two cultures is food. In French we have a saying: Il faut manger pour vivre et non pas vivre pour manger. This is an old saying denouncing the sin of gluttony, but really it is the Anglo-Saxons who are very much "Il faut manger pour vivre et non pas vivre pour manger", whereas the French (and Latin people in general) would be more "Vivons pour manger."

[MolsonExport]

Just another page of NB overselling Quebec and underselling Canada (whichever criteria you care to examine). Magnify any difference, no matter how minuscule. Deny any similarity, no matter how obvious. Obfuscate any within-group variability, while maximizing between-group variability.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Just another page of NB overselling Quebec and underselling Canada (whichever criteria you care to examine). Magnify any difference, no matter how minuscule. Deny any similarity, no matter how obvious. Obfuscate any within-group variability, while maximizing between-group variability.

As do a number of the Canadians on this thread. Who knew the Kool-Aid was so appealing?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Just another page of NB overselling Quebec and underselling Canada (whichever criteria you care to examine). Magnify any difference, no matter how minuscule. Deny any similarity, no matter how obvious. Obfuscate any within-group variability, while maximizing between-group variability.

un agent provocateur par excellence et sans egale!

And Acajack laps it up.

What a shame. How can he not see New Brisavoine for what he is.

I hope Putin is paying him well.........

I shall return to more important things like the Canada vs USA World Juniors game currently on TV. No love lost between these two teams. If you want to see what international relations would be like if Trump sends his troops northward, then you should tune in.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

It has? From Sept 2023 to Sept 2024 the population of Canada grew by a crazy 951,000 people. That's +2.35% in one year. That's more or less the growth rate of Nigeria. Growth rate of France is around +0.40% per year (although in 2021 it jumped to 0.60% as per the results of the 2022 census published 2 weeks ago, due to higher immigration). Growth rate of Germany is around +0.20% per year. Booming Switzerland is between 0.80% and 1.00% per year. 2.35% per year is only seen in sub-Saharan Africa.

I’m well aware, thanks. I’ve quoted those numbers myself. The majority sentiment is that we need to cut immigration, which would have been unthinkable prior to 2015. The surge in immigration was the pet project of a bad government and done discretely without any public consultation. It was intentionally obfuscated- for the first two years, the LPC gaslit anyone that questioned bringing in over a million people a year by pointing out that technically only 400,000 were “immigrants”. Regardless, the numbers this year are front loaded and set to be 30-40% lower than last years growth figures and will likely continue to drop in future years.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

un agent provocateur par excellence et sans egale!

And Acajack laps it up.

What a shame. How can he not see New Brisavoine for what he is.

I hope Putin is paying him well.........

I shall return to more important things like the Canada vs USA World Juniors game currently on TV. No love lost between these two teams. If you want to see what international relations would be like if Trump sends his troops northward, then you should tune in.

Canada lost 4-1, and the two countries are way closer in hockey than economically and militarily. Hopefully we can beat them next time.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Just another page of NB overselling Quebec and underselling Canada (whichever criteria you care to examine). Magnify any difference, no matter how minuscule. Deny any similarity, no matter how obvious. Obfuscate any within-group variability, while maximizing between-group variability.

There are lots of things that bug ROCers about Quebec but no one ever wants to put 2 and 2 together and acknowledge that it’s because they truly are different. Not necessarily different enough to be a different country but more different than even Nova Scotia vs Alberta for example.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

They don't take it for granted (they talk about it all the time actually), but here it's another example of the big cultural divide between Anglo-Saxons and Latin people. For the people in Québec the economy is a mean to an end, not an end in itself. For the Anglo-Saxons the economy often seem an end in and of itself. As we said the other day, what's the point of living to become the richest man in the cemetery?

Another major cultural divide between our two cultures is food. In French we have a saying: Il faut manger pour vivre et non pas vivre pour manger. This is an old saying denouncing the sin of gluttony, but really it is the Anglo-Saxons who are very much "Il faut manger pour vivre et non pas vivre pour manger", whereas the French (and Latin people in general) would be more "Vivons pour manger."

I’d rather eat pasta and drink wine than be a size zero - Sophia Loren

[Acajack]

And of course the classic Canadian urban stereotype:

In Toronto people people live to work, in Montréal they work to live.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I hope Putin is paying him well..........

Not enough unfortunately. Lately they are running out of cash. Bloody Western sanctions!

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I’d rather eat pasta and drink wine than be a size zero - Sophia Loren

Personally I oscillate between both. Sometimes I'm like "il faut manger pour vivre" (as in 15 minutes lunch break eating a quick sandwich while walking), but oftentimes I'm also "vivons pour manger", as during this festive season.

I think that reflects how a lot of urban young French people are these days. They haven't lost their traditional eating habits as much as in the Anglo-Saxon world, but they have less of them than the former generations, with shorter lunch breaks, more sandwiches, less big meals. But food is still valued and seen as important. You should have seen all the food stores in my neighborhood these past days full of good (and expensive) stuff for the "fêtes", and full of people (yesterday I waited in line 15 minutes at the fishmonger for some fresh scallops!).

[New Brisavoine]

Anyway, perhaps you've seen the tragedy in New Orleans. I've found something interesting. Here in France they say it happened in "le Quartier français", no need to explain what it is, everybody knows, and we use just the French name.

I notice that in Québécois newspapers they not only give the English name first, but they also need to explain what sort of neighborhood it is, as if readers didn't know.

Le Figaro:



Le Monde:



Compare with Le Devoir:

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Canada lost 4-1, and the two countries are way closer in hockey than economically and militarily. Hopefully we can beat them next time.

Interesting how much Quebec's role on Canada's national teams and in the NHL have fallen. Any insight on why this is happening?

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Acajack

And of course the classic Canadian urban stereotype:

In Toronto people people live to work, in Montréal they work to live.

Judging by the unemployment rates in the two cities, this is probably not true anymore.

As far as food goes, that seems an odd take unless you're a domiciled middle aged person who eats most of his meal at the office desk or the dinner table. The food scene in Vancouver and Toronto are probably more vibrant than Montreal at this point. It makes sense since there's really nothing social to do in Toronto for a lot of young people other than go out and eat food together.