Highway 107 Upgrades (Burnside Expressway) | U/C

[OldDartmouthMark]

Google Maps hasn't quite caught up to the fact that the road is open as yet.

[Keith P.]

Funny you post this; I was looking at a satellite shot of the area yesterday and it shows something similar from above. A paved dual carriageway running from Sackville towards Burnside that vanishes into the woods suddenly. I assume the paved part was some of the work initially done that was then paused for a long time, while the Burnside end is more recent.

Off-topic note: The DoubleTree by Hilton charging $939/night for a room must be posh!

[Dartguard]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Funny you post this; I was looking at a satellite shot of the area yesterday and it shows something similar from above. A paved dual carriageway running from Sackville towards Burnside that vanishes into the woods suddenly. I assume the paved part was some of the work initially done that was then paused for a long time, while the Burnside end is more recent.

Off-topic note: The DoubleTree by Hilton charging $939/night for a room must be posh!

That price might be what the Province is paying to rent the building. Per Room, per night

[Mr. Hunt]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Google Maps hasn't quite caught up to the fact that the road is open as yet.

They still haven't updated their Dartmouth Crossing imagery since IKEA was in the early stages of construction.

[q12]

For those confused:



Also it shows up on Google Earth:

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by q12

Also it shows up on Google Earth:

Google Earth only shows half the highway as well. The same as Google Maps satellite view.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by q12

For those confused:

From the Reddit link posted by Keith:

Warning about the new sackville-dartmouth expressway and exit 4C from the 102

There are three signs: left-Glendale ave, centre-Duke St, right-Dartmouth. There are four lanes.

I was aiming for Duke St, and hedged my bets by choosing the second from the right. I chose wrong. The center-right lane is exit only to the new 107 extension, and there are no exits till you're all the way in dartmouth.

I've been here five years now, and thought i had figured out all the "you should have been in the right lane before we told you so now youre stuck" intersections, but i guess HRM can keep making new ones.

In your pic, I count 5 lanes, 3 signs with 5 arrows. The signs in your pic do not say what the poster says. 5 arrows, 5 lanes. Where is the confusion?

I have to say that I had mistaken which area they were talking about in my earlier post. I thought they were talking about this pic that you posted:


Source

3 lanes, 3 signs. No lane confusion, just my mistake over which exit the Reddit poster was complaining about.

So...

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

Funny you post this; I was looking at a satellite shot of the area yesterday and it shows something similar from above. A paved dual carriageway running from Sackville towards Burnside that vanishes into the woods suddenly. I assume the paved part was some of the work initially done that was then paused for a long time, while the Burnside end is more recent.

Off-topic note: The DoubleTree by Hilton charging $939/night for a room must be posh!

If you look at the trees at the cut-off point, there is a slight colour variation from one side to the other. I assume that they pieced together satellite shots from different periods (years?), with the newer one having partially completed highway and the old one being undeveloped.

[DBaz]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

From the Reddit link posted by Keith:


In your pic, I count 5 lanes, 3 signs with 5 arrows. The signs in your pic do not say what the poster says. 5 arrows, 5 lanes. Where is the confusion?

So...

The one they are talking about is farther up, after you’re off the 102. The center lane has become the left lane and widened to two, before the 107 goes off to the right. So left is marked Glendale, the inner left Duke, and the two right Dartmouth (107). But I’m pretty sure the two right have two arrows, and possibly are marked yellow Exit Only.

After the right two exit it widens again to three approaching the roundabout, marked left to right Glendale, center Dartmouth (because now you can through the roundabout and take the second to the 107) and Truro/Airport (back into the 102) and the right is Duke. As it is two lane roundabout the white on black lane marking signs are more detailed.

The earlier comment about Glendale Duke being marked Sackville makes no sense… you are already in Bedford / Sackville, and Duke is in Bedford, not Sackville.

I think the new Signage is fine. The old signage coming from Cole Harbour needs to updated to add Bedford / Sackville and remove the new Highway Ends signs.

I did see a car who looked like they complexly ignored the signs saying the Windsor exit from the 102 southbound was moved back to ease the weaving, and kept moving into the merge lanes trying to exit. He came to a dead stop where the last merge lane ended under the Bedford Bypass bridge.

Having lived in Europe and driven on lots of roundabouts (including weird Belgium rules) it perplexes me that no one signals their intent to exit here. It not only gives others a warm and fuzzy you know where you’re going and allows people to join if you’re leaving, but also reinforces in my mind what I’m doing when I use mine.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by DBaz

The one they are talking about is farther up, after you’re off the 102. The center lane has become the left lane and widened to two, before the 107 goes off to the right. So left is marked Glendale, the inner left Duke, and the two right Dartmouth (107). But I’m pretty sure the two right have two arrows, and possibly are marked yellow Exit Only.

After the right two exit it widens again to three approaching the roundabout, marked left to right Glendale, center Dartmouth (because now you can through the roundabout and take the second to the 107) and Truro/Airport (back into the 102) and the right is Duke. As it is two lane roundabout the white on black lane marking signs are more detailed.

The earlier comment about Glendale Duke being marked Sackville makes no sense… you are already in Bedford / Sackville, and Duke is in Bedford, not Sackville.

I think the new Signage is fine. The old signage coming from Cole Harbour needs to updated to add Bedford / Sackville and remove the new Highway Ends signs.

I did see a car who looked like they complexly ignored the signs saying the Windsor exit from the 102 southbound was moved back to ease the weaving, and kept moving into the merge lanes trying to exit. He came to a dead stop where the last merge lane ended under the Bedford Bypass bridge.

Having lived in Europe and driven on lots of roundabouts (including weird Belgium rules) it perplexes me that no one signals their intent to exit here. It not only gives others a warm and fuzzy you know where you’re going and allows people to join if you’re leaving, but also reinforces in my mind what I’m doing when I use mine.

Thanks for the clarification. I have only been through it once and not in both directions yet. I think part of the upset with people is that it is new, and some folks aren’t intuitive drivers. I believe it’s just the way they are wired, but all will be well once they become comfortable with it. This kind of plays back to Keith’s point that not everyone finds signage easy to read and I’ll admit that I have a hard time understanding when people can’t comprehend signage, but I guess we all have our Kryptonite.

I always signal as I’m leaving a roundabout as I want to let others know what I’m doing, plus I don’t completely trust that someone isn’t going to cut inside on double lane circles, so I want there to be no doubts. I also don’t understand why people don’t do this, or put on their left signal when they are exiting the highway on the left (like Magazine to Dartmouth Road, for example). But then people often fail to signal anyhow, in every situation…

[OldDartmouthMark]

The road has now been added to Google maps, but the satellite photo has not been updated yet.

[Empire]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

From the Reddit link posted by Keith:


In your pic, I count 5 lanes, 3 signs with 5 arrows. The signs in your pic do not say what the poster says. 5 arrows, 5 lanes. Where is the confusion?

I have to say that I had mistaken which area they were talking about in my earlier post. I thought they were talking about this pic that you posted:


Source

3 lanes, 3 signs. No lane confusion, just my mistake over which exit the Reddit poster was complaining about.

So...

With the new 2' high giant font how could anyone get lost?

[Saul Goode]

I drove the length of the expressway at dusk last Monday, the 23rd, from Dartmouth to Bedford and return.

I had absolutely no problem with lane markings or exit signs, but did encounter a maddening back-up at the western end. I waited just under three minutes - an eternity in the context of highway driving - to enter the roundabout to make the return trip, because of a seemingly endless stream of traffic entering from Duke Street. I presume it was heavy last-minute Christmas shopper traffic from Bedford Commons, so probably not typical, but it was an unsettling surprise on a brand-new highway.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Yes, if I have anything negative to say about the new highway, it would be the roundabouts. In general I find they don’t blend well with a highway environment, and as you’ve experienced, they don’t work well for the person waiting to get into the circle downstream of a major traffic flow. For all their unpopularity among the urban planning crowd, there are many cases where a signalled intersection actually works better than a roundabout, but at this point in time we appear to be addicted to them and throw them in everywhere, regardless of circumstances.

[Keith P.]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Yes, if I have anything negative to say about the new highway, it would be the roundabouts. In general I find they don’t blend well with a highway environment, and as you’ve experienced, they don’t work well for the person waiting to get into the circle downstream of a major traffic flow. For all their unpopularity among the urban planning crowd, there are many cases where a signalled intersection actually works better than a roundabout, but at this point in time we appear to be addicted to them and throw them in everywhere, regardless of circumstances.

The main reason for the popularity of roundabouts among DTPW and HRM planners is because they are cheap to build and to operate, despite many if not most NS drivers (and indeed those in other parts of Canada) being allergic to them. As you note, in situations where there is a lot of traffic coming into it from one leg of the thing, the others immediately become clogged and are at a standstill. It is yet another example of govts being motivated by not wanting to spend on what a more appropriate solution would cost and cheaping out. I would point to the Fall River exit off the 118 as a prime example where it creates dangerous conditions on many evening rush hours with traffic backing up onto the highway itself. This one could be very much the same.

[Haliguy]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

Yes, if I have anything negative to say about the new highway, it would be the roundabouts. In general I find they don’t blend well with a highway environment, and as you’ve experienced, they don’t work well for the person waiting to get into the circle downstream of a major traffic flow. For all their unpopularity among the urban planning crowd, there are many cases where a signalled intersection actually works better than a roundabout, but at this point in time we appear to be addicted to them and throw them in everywhere, regardless of circumstances.

I would take roundabout any day over a signalized intersection. Cant stand waiting at traffic lights. Roundabouts keep traffic moving quite effectively.

[Saul Goode]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

It is yet another example of govts being motivated by not wanting to spend on what a more appropriate solution would cost and cheaping out.

It seems ironic to be talking about "cheaping out" with respect to 9 lousy km of road which cost us a quarter of a billion dollars, but point taken.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Haliguy

I would take roundabout any day over a signalized intersection. Cant stand waiting at traffic lights. Roundabouts keep traffic moving quite effectively.

That’s fine. I’m saying that IMHO they do not work the best in all situations.

I like them when traffic is light and you can blow through them without stopping, but when traffic is heavy, they can be dicey when not everyone uses them as they are designed, or are overconfident/aggressive, misread the multiple lane format, etc. Then if you are downstream in a heavy traffic situation, it’s the equivalent of having a constant red light until unless you are lucky enough to get a break in traffic. God help you if you have to cross two lanes in that situation.

All said, they are mostly fine, and are an absolute delight late at night with no traffic, kinda like cutting the cones on a gymkhana circuit… but I digress…

[Reesor]

I travel from downtown to Sackville on work days. I'm looking forward to seeing how the new highway affects traffic when everyone returns to work/school on the 6th. More than likely, I won't be taking the new highway to work. I'll stick with the Bedford Bypass/Magazine hill.

I did take the new highway coming home from work last week just to see how it felt. There was little rush-hour traffic on the 23rd. I don't believe it saved me time. I believe it was longer to get into Sackville. The traffic light coming off of the 111 to Burnside Drive/Highfield Park is extremely long. I waited about 4 minutes to turn left there. I also hit a red light at Commodore Drive which took 2 or 3 minutes. I caught a green light at Wright Ave. Three sets of lights going that way vs four going Windmill Road.

I liked the lighting. The roundabouts are fine. I noticed folks taking risks getting through the roundabout at Akerley Blvd. That's going to be a tough one to get through coming from Burnside Drive, as a lot of traffic will be coming from Akerley and they get in the roundabout first.

My practical uses for the highway will be going to Dartmouth Crossing, but I think it's a marginal time save without traffic. I could take the 107 all the way around to the 118 and come at Dartmouth Crossing that way to avoid traffic lights. Mic Mac Mall would also be an option, but again, marginal at best. The real time save will be Cole Harbour. A friend told me they saved 10 minutes going from Cole Harbour/Forest Hills to Sackville. If I was headed to the beach in the Summer, I'd take this way for sure. Or to the Vines on Main St near Sobeys.

I'm happy for those that live in Bedford West/South that have a more direct route to Burnside/Dartmouth. They would benefit greatly. Also folks in Cole Harbour that go to Sackville or even Bayers Lake may decide to take a path of least resistance. No traffic lights from Main St/Forest Hills Parkway to Bayers Lake sounds like a tempting route.

We'll see in early January how much this highway affects traffic. My travel time in the mornings is about 45 minutes, and 50 minutes in the afternoon. Not to create false hope, but anything less than a 10-minute time save each way would be a huge disappointment considering the price of that highway.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

That’s fine. I’m saying that IMHO they do not work the best in all situations.

I like them when traffic is light and you can blow through them without stopping, but when traffic is heavy, they can be dicey when not everyone uses them as they are designed, or are overconfident/aggressive, misread the multiple lane format, etc. Then if you are downstream in a heavy traffic situation, it’s the equivalent of having a constant red light until unless you are lucky enough to get a break in traffic. God help you if you have to cross two lanes in that situation.

Agree 100%

I like roundabouts (I really do!!), but, they are not the best solution in every situation. Your comments about downstream access in a heavy traffic situation being tantamount to a perpetual red light is spot on. The dog bone roundabout on Dieppe/Harrisville Blvd over highway 15 near the Moncton Airport is just like this. Another heavy traffic situation is the causeway traffic circle at the end of Highway 15 in Moncton which is also heavily congested at rush hour.

There are similar roundabouts in Halifax I'm sure, but I will leave that up to Halifax forum members to enumerate.