YVR & Sea Island Developments Discussion II

[Calfan12]

CONDOR NS25 LONG-HAUL NETWORK CHANGES – 23DEC24

Condor up to Monday 23DEC24 gradually filed additional changes to its long-haul operation for Northern summer 2025 season, operated by A330-900neo aircraft. Planned operation changes include the following.

Frankfurt – Vancouver 10JUN25 – 01SEP25 Increase from 5 to 7 weekly

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/241224-dens25

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by Calfan12

CONDOR NS25 LONG-HAUL NETWORK CHANGES – 23DEC24

Condor up to Monday 23DEC24 gradually filed additional changes to its long-haul operation for Northern summer 2025 season, operated by A330-900neo aircraft. Planned operation changes include the following.

Frankfurt – Vancouver 10JUN25 – 01SEP25 Increase from 5 to 7 weekly

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/241224-dens25

Looks like they're focusing on larger North American markets. Too bad YEG and YHZ will lose their service entirely. Condor does offer a great hard and soft product with their new A330neos, glad to see the increase in frequency for YVR.

[casper]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Looks like they're focusing on larger North American markets. Too bad YEG and YHZ will lose their service entirely. Condor does offer a great hard and soft product with their new A330neos, glad to see the increase in frequency for YVR.

They codeshare/interline with WestJet and Alaska. So out of Vancouver they have a host onward connections they can offer. Less flexibility in some of the other cities they are dropping.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by Calfan12

CONDOR NS25 LONG-HAUL NETWORK CHANGES – 23DEC24

Condor up to Monday 23DEC24 gradually filed additional changes to its long-haul operation for Northern summer 2025 season, operated by A330-900neo aircraft. Planned operation changes include the following.

Frankfurt – Vancouver 10JUN25 – 01SEP25 Increase from 5 to 7 weekly

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/241224-dens25

This was known ages ago. It was even in the previously reported section in that link

[nname]

In the latest update
YVR-PEK reduce to 5x weekly until end of May
YVR-PVG reduce to 5x weekly until for the month of April

So for April, the 4x weekly will be used to for early KIX season... for May, probably just leave it on the ground?

[VancityAvgeek33]

Originally Posted by nname

In the latest update
YVR-PEK reduce to 5x weekly until end of May
YVR-PVG reduce to 5x weekly until for the month of April

So for April, the 4x weekly will be used to for early KIX season... for May, probably just leave it on the ground?

I wonder why they are doing that? I guess not enough demand?

[VancityAvgeek33]

I feel like this will prolly change back. They keep reducing and then re adjusting. Or they are using the 2 weekly reductions from both for Manila?

[VancityAvgeek33]

Waite I’m dumb. U said it will be used for Osaka. Kind of don’t understand why they announce one thing so ppl book then they adjust capacity. Idk I feel like they should have just announced Beijing as five weekly?

[nname]

Originally Posted by VancityAvgeek33

Waite I’m dumb. U said it will be used for Osaka. Kind of don’t understand why they announce one thing so ppl book then they adjust capacity. Idk I feel like they should have just announced Beijing as five weekly?

For April
PVG on days x15
PEK on days x37
KIX on days 1357

So they don't need an additional plane for the early season. KIX was announce before expanding PVG and PEK to daily. So AC doesn't have enough planes to run all the frequency, and they probably wait on advanced booking to cut a few weeklies off the most under-performing routes. In this case, PVG and PEK.

For May
PVG daily
PEK on days x37
KIX on days 1357
DUB on days 246

I doubt AC is going to use the 2x weekly on anything...

[VancityAvgeek33]

Originally Posted by nname

For April
PVG on days x15
PEK on days x37
KIX on days 1357

So they don't need an additional plane for the early season. KIX was announce before expanding PVG and PEK to daily. So AC doesn't have enough planes to run all the frequency, and they probably wait on advanced booking to cut a few weeklies off the most under-performing routes. In this case, PVG and PEK.

For May
PVG daily
PEK on days x37
KIX on days 1357
DUB on days 246

I doubt AC is going to use the 2x weekly on anything...

Do you think air Canada’s china flights are under performing? I hope that china eastern comes back in the new year and maybe china southern? Hopefully demand can pick up again.

[owenf]

Originally Posted by VancityAvgeek33

Do you think air Canada’s china flights are under performing? I hope that china eastern comes back in the new year and maybe china southern? Hopefully demand can pick up again.

I wouldn’t say that those routes are necessarily underperforming, for Air Canada it’s about how they best utilize their resources that ultimately best fit the overall network and make the most money. KIX stage length is also shorter than PVG and PEK and having 2x weekly spare is a good cushion especially compared to last summer where there was less slack.

As for china southern/china eastern that is dependent on the bilaterals so when that opens up even more I’d expect to see those carriers return. Apparently I heard somewhere that there was work happening around the Taiwan bilateral, if that opens up you will definitely see an increase in TPE-Canada capacity because those flights are always full.

[casper]

Originally Posted by owenf

I wouldn’t say that those routes are necessarily underperforming, for Air Canada it’s about how they best utilize their resources that ultimately best fit the overall network and make the most money. KIX stage length is also shorter than PVG and PEK and having 2x weekly spare is a good cushion especially compared to last summer where there was less slack.

As for china southern/china eastern that is dependent on the bilaterals so when that opens up even more I’d expect to see those carriers return. Apparently I heard somewhere that there was work happening around the Taiwan bilateral, if that opens up you will definitely see an increase in TPE-Canada capacity because those flights are always full.

There is nothing stopping Air Canada or WestJet from operating to TPE, other having enough aircraft. I don't see why Canada would be interested in expanding capacity if the domestic operators are not interested in using the dormant rights they already have.

[Calfan12]

KOREAN AIR NS25 VANCOUVER SERVICE ADJUSTMENTS

Korean Air in the last few days filed service changes for Seoul Incheon – Vancouver route during Northern summer 2025 season, which selected changes were not highlighted in previous AeroRoutes report.

From 30MAR25, the airline schedules 11 weekly flights, instead of 13 weekly, as 2 of 6 weekly KE075/076 service are no longer available for reservations. With this adjustment, the Skyteam member serves this route exclusively with 787-10 Dreamliner.

KE071 ICN1850 – 1240YVR 781 D
KE075 ICN2240 – 1630YVR 781 x247

KE076 YVR0100 – 0420+1ICN 781 x135
KE072 YVR1430 – 1750+1ICN 781 D

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/241227-kens25yvr

[zahav]

Posted a couple of small YVR updates on the Canada thread:

-UA is starting their seasonal EWR-YVR earlier than usual I think, listed to start March 30th. I don't remember it ever starting that early before, but again I am not certain. And then starting June 26 until Sep. 24th, they add a 2nd daily flight. I certainly don't think there's ever been 4x daily YVR-EWR before (2x AC and 2x UA this summer). Nice to see some heft on a historically underserved pairing

-it appears Alaska Airlines has increased YVR-PDX to 2x daily from May 15 to Oct. 3rd. Yes it is comparatively minor news and a small difference overall. But it is worth mentioning for me because of how Alaska has been in the last decade +-, basically just focusing on SEA. As most seasoned readers of this thread know, they used to have tons of YVR service from a zillion different airports in the US West, and then it just evaporated and widdled down to just SEA and PDX for well over a decade. So then when PDX got chopped, it was a tough blow symbolically. So when it was reloaded for S25, it was a relief (shows how low the bar is when just a once daily E-jet is considered a relief lol, but it sure beats the next step down, which is full out cancellation). So now not only is the route returning, but they're even adding a 2nd daily frequency. So yes it's a small tidbit, but significant because of the carrier's history. Going from potentially losing the route altogether, to once daily, and then doubling to twice is a small victory. Incidentally, it appears the extra PDX flight is directly at the expense of one of SEA's frequencies, and so is not even a net gain for AS service to YVR. Yes I know it's petty, but I DO NOT cheer for SEA to get even more dominant in the PNW, they are already such a direct competitor to YVR in almost every way. So I will enjoy my pettiness and relish a tiny loss for SEA in favour of PDX

Nothing major, but nice to see.

[nname]

I don't think there is a frequency loss of AS for SEA? It is still scheduled 6x daily for the summer.

On top of that, looks like PDX will be back to year-round with 1x daily during the winter.

I wonder when will AS/HA start YVR-HNL. Looks like it's the last remaining big hole in their west coast network. Now after the AS/HA merger, seems like there's a higher chance for them to starting the route?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by casper

There is nothing stopping Air Canada or WestJet from operating to TPE, other having enough aircraft. I don't see why Canada would be interested in expanding capacity if the domestic operators are not interested in using the dormant rights they already have.

That is interesting. I am curious what dormant rights AC and WS already have. // Are these transborder or overseas routes, and more precisely, where are they? // I'd love to see YVR with more global reach.

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

That is interesting. I am curious what dormant rights AC and WS already have. // Are these transborder or overseas routes, and more precisely, where are they? // I'd love to see YVR with more global reach.

I would think it would be like any trans border route by a US carrier.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

I don't think there is a frequency loss of AS for SEA? It is still scheduled 6x daily for the summer.

On top of that, looks like PDX will be back to year-round with 1x daily during the winter.

I wonder when will AS/HA start YVR-HNL. Looks like it's the last remaining big hole in their west coast network. Now after the AS/HA merger, seems like there's a higher chance for them to starting the route?

I think you’re right. AS last summer was 7 daily (6 SEA and 1 PDX) next summer 8 daily (6 SEA 2 PDX)

[zahav]

Originally Posted by Johnny Aussie

I think you’re right. AS last summer was 7 daily (6 SEA and 1 PDX) next summer 8 daily (6 SEA 2 PDX)

Thanks for confirming, I couldn't remember clearly but thought AS was 7x daily to SEA (1x mainline and 6x Horizon) in 2024. But I think I was confusing it with DL, who do operate 7x daily (all on Delta Connection). So that is great that the extra PDX flight is additional and not stolen from SEA

I have what is likely a stupid question, but I can't find the definitive answer online. When airlines have different seating configurations under the same aircraft code, is there any way to tell which plane is being used? Airline websites only seem to show a generic aircraft type, and not link to the actual seat map being used. Ie. Cathay operates four types of A330 with the same classes available, but all different capacities. The example that made me post the question is Air New Zealand. This summer they are using the 777-300 on 3x weekly flights, and then 787 on the rest (has been 787 only for some time). When I checked their page, there are 3 different layouts with big capacity differences. They apparently operate a variant that has a "Luxe" version of business class, it isn't categorized as First Class, rather seems to offer a small amount of First-esque seats but classified as Business still. This version also has more Business seats than the other 777 layouts, so definitely premium heavy. Just curious if there is a way for someone to tell which variant is being used? My hunch is that we won't see the premium layout, so we will be getting either the 342 pax or 368 pax versions (again, I have no idea how to know which version is scheduled on which route). But either way, a good little capacity boost from NZ. Especially considering NZ dropped routes like LAX-LHR (ie. it's sole way to service LHR, dropping the route meant no more European service at all). They also dropped ORD. So I never take any of our increases for granted, small or big, since they have choices for deploying extra capacity, so it's a positive sign regardless. Even New York is only 3x weekly, that's surprising, definitely thought they were more frequent than that.

I just hope they don't push out Fiji or Qantas, we need those to stay more than we need a 777 vs. 787 (I hope it isn't an either/or situation and it's just added growth, but if I had to choose between more NZ capacity and losing Qantas/Fiji, it's a no-brainer).

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by zahav

Thanks for confirming, I couldn't remember ........

I just hope they don't push out Fiji or Qantas, we need those to stay more than we need a 777 vs. 787 (I hope it isn't an either/or situation and it's just added growth, but if I had to choose between more AZ capacity and losing Qantas/Fiji, it's a no-brainer).

If we lost Qantas or Fiji, it would, IMHO, like having an arm or leg amputed with a concommitant loss of blood! // Still, I would love to see AZ year-round YVR >< FCO. // I don't know which would be better/worse.