Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Every city in Quebec has something named for Louis Riel as well. Manitoba pride?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That said that does not mean they could not be fairly easily smoothed out if Anglo-Canada ever came to be part of the US. The US already has a ton of outlier regionalisms within it in terms of mindset, demeanour and attitudes. Ironically, in the context of this discussion, the US is more diverse than Anglo-Canada is.

I was thinking more in terms of death penalty, gun laws, abortion, trigger-happy police forces, number of weeks of vacation, social benefits, etc. It's hard to fit a square inside a circle.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

My Acadienne grandmother had a picture of JFK in her living room.

Catholic solidarity???

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

My Acadienne grandmother had a picture of JFK in her living room.

I don’t assume she’s lived long enough to now have a picture of Donald Trump in that exact same spot of her living room…?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I was thinking more in terms of death penalty, gun laws, abortion, trigger-happy police forces, number of weeks of vacation, social benefits, etc. It's hard to fit a square inside a circle.

Lots of Americans have Canadianesque views on these things. Almost half of Americans, in many cases.

It’s just that Americans who think that don’t “win” politically as often as Canadians who think like that.

At least part of the reason for that in Canada is the presence of Quebec that pushes these views into consensus territory overall for Canada.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Every city in Quebec has something named for Louis Riel as well. Manitoba pride?

Right, and we’re just waiting for Heather Stefanson to pass so we can name something after her in every city

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

What you just did is equivalent to observing the fact that every Quebec city has a JFK avenue or street, and concluding that you’re expecting these cities to also have Barack Obama and Donald Trump avenues in a generation, when in fact Avenue du Président-Kennedy is MUCH more closely related to boulevard Pie-IX or rue Saint(e)-Whatever. (I’m sure New Brisavoine naturally gets this, unlike you; he’s less of a foreigner than you!)

I've never understood why JFK was so lionized. My landlord back in California told me that when he arrived at work the day he was assassinated, his (Republican) boss said: "The bastard is dead!"

My father still remembers what he was doing when he heard on the French radio that JFK was dead. This is crazy!

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Lots of Americans have Canadianesque views on these things.

Yeah, but they don't run the show, and I'm sure Anglo-Canadian women don't want to be told by the US Supreme Court that they can't abort, and the large majority of Anglo-Canadians also probably don't want their gun laws to be relaxed. This will forever prevent merger with the US, unless the US change radically, which is always possible, but less likely than Québec seceding from Canada.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

My father still remembers what he was doing when he heard on the French radio that JFK was dead. This is crazy!

Perfectly normal. The Leader of the Free World gets shot in the head during peak Cold War, everyone will remember what they were doing when they heard the news.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

By "western pact" are you referring to just the Prairie provinces? Otherwise, I think you may be seriously mistaken about BC's relationship with Alberta.

Prairie provinces plus a big chunk of BC excluding Vancouver, the Coast and Victoria.

Most of interior BC and to a notable extent the Fraser Valley east of Langley (or is Langley the line?) is Stockwell Day country and aligns politically with Alberta, and it's this reality that I don't see BC forming a bloc with Ontario to gang up on the Prairies in the rump state.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Prairie provinces plus a big chunk of BC excluding Vancouver, the Coast and Victoria.

Most of interior BC and to a notable extent the Fraser Valley east of Langley (or is Langley the line?) is Stockwell Day country and aligns politically with Alberta, and it's this reality that I don't see BC forming a bloc with Ontario to gang up on the Prairies in the rump state.

Not really. I think if you went to Kelowna and did a straw poll asking whether they'd:

(a) keep things the way they are,
(b) join Alberta
(c) join Alberta in joining the United States

The vast majority of people would pick "A".

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Lots of Americans have Canadianesque views on these things. Almost half of Americans, in many cases.

It’s just that Americans who think that don’t “win” politically as often as Canadians who think like that. .

Yep. Most of the neighbouring blue states in New England to DC, coastal California and the PNW (Cascadia) have Canadinesque governance that shares a worldview that isn't very divergent from most Anglo-Canadian provinces. Especially when our provincial public healthcare systems continues to barrel towards collapse without any political will to reform, the remaining gap will shrink even more.

I think what NB is wondering, is why Anglo-Canada doesn't function as a unified entity like Deutschschweiz. But the reality is that Anglo-Canada's too vast a size, spread out with scattered population centres and strong provinces to be that unified entity. To put things into perspective, Paris is closer to Moscow, than Toronto to Calgary.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Prairie provinces plus a big chunk of BC excluding Vancouver, the Coast and Victoria.

Most of interior BC and to a notable extent the Fraser Valley east of Langley (or is Langley the line?) is Stockwell Day country and aligns politically with Alberta, and it's this reality that I don't see BC forming a bloc with Ontario to gang up on the Prairies in the rump state.

In a rump Canada I could easily see a “Toronto-Vancouver Elite” forming to replace the Laurentian one, with Flyover Country (Barrie to Chilliwack, approximately? Or Vaughan to Langley, if a stricter definition) remaining exactly that to them.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by lio45

In a rump Canada I could easily see a “Toronto-Vancouver Elite” forming to replace the Laurentian one, with Flyover Country (Barrie to Langley, approximately?) remaining exactly that to them.

No, Calgary is too influential a city for it to be sidelined.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Not really. I think if you went to Kelowna and did a straw poll asking whether they'd:

(a) keep things the way they are,
(b) join Alberta
(c) join Alberta in joining the United States

The vast majority of people would pick "A".

If Canada remains intact I'd believe it. But with Quebec sovereignty and a never-ending Constitutional crisis, I seriously doubt they'd be OK with the status quo.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Not really. I think if you went to Kelowna and did a straw poll asking whether they'd:

(a) keep things the way they are,
(b) join Alberta
(c) join Alberta in joining the United States

The vast majority of people would pick "A".

So you think voting patterns in Kelowna are closer to voting patterns in Toronto than to voting patterns in Alberta? Honest question — I thought Kelowna was pretty deep “Fuck Trudeau” territory, close to Alberta in fact.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by lio45

In a rump Canada I could easily see a “Toronto-Vancouver Elite” forming to replace the Laurentian one, with Flyover Country (Barrie to Chilliwack, approximately? Or Vaughan to Langley, if a stricter definition) remaining exactly that to them.

Originally Posted by hipster duck

No, Calgary is too influential a city for it to be sidelined.

Have to agree with hipster duck that a Toronto-Vancouver axis will unlikely form. Calgary is just too powerful economically and politically to be shunted to the side, and if Alberta ever finds itself in that situation it will join the USA without hesitation.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by lio45

So you think voting patterns in Kelowna are closer to voting patterns in Toronto than to voting patterns in Alberta? Honest question — I thought Kelowna was pretty deep “Fuck Trudeau” territory, close to Alberta in fact.

It's a curious mix.. lots of ex-Vancouverites, ex-GTAers retiring there. So it's somewhat more boho than the rest of interior BC.. but I would say it's more volatile and unpredictable politically.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

It's a bit of spicy take, but you could argue Anglo-Canada essentially lost its raison d'être after the British Empire stopped being a thing. Anglo-Canada, as a polity, was literally founded by Americans who rejected the Revolution in favour of loyalty to the King and the Empire. Now that the Empire no longer exists and the Windsor monarchy is barely in the Canadian consciousness... there isn't really anything at all anymore, other than economic convenience and the hassle of changing things. I don't think it's a coincidence at all that diversity-maxing & the "post-national state" started to become a thing around the same time the Empire dissolved.

But if Quebec leaves, and the whole Constitution thus has to be reopened - I think this reality will suddenly make itself very much felt.

The only real argument most people have against Anglo-Canada rejoining its American motherland is disdain for American politics. That's not a particularly strong foundation for a country, especially not in a federation...

100% agree, pretty much sums up what I see on the ground as well. In a way, not reopening the Constitution is a key reason the country can still hold together, especially amongst this post-national identity nonsense that's pushed into hyper-drive in the last decade.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

No, Calgary is too influential a city for it to be sidelined.

Aren’t you yourself an educated professional who alternated between Toronto and Vancouver? Was Calgary seriously in the running too, out of curiosity?