Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[whatnext]

What's needed is a federal government that wins a majority with little help from Quebec. Then give them the tough love necessary to make them realize electing BQ candidates won't help them as a pressure tactic.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

«Le QC sera beaucoup plus fort quand je serai premier ministre. Pourquoi? Parce que le fédéral sera beaucoup plus petit. On va réduire le pouvoir et la taille de l’État fédéral et laisser aux Québécois et au QC plus d’autonomie.»

Un discours très démagogique, as we would say here. Caresser les électeurs dans le sens du poil... Telling Québécois what they want to hear, and telling ROCers another thing they want to hear. These sorts of politicians profoundly disgust me. Macron is a typical one, telling each audience what they want to hear ("French colonialism was a crime against humanity" to voters of Algerian descent; "we accomplished some great things in Algeria" to voters of Pied-Noir descent).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by whatnext

What's needed is a federal government that wins a majority with little help from Quebec. Then give them the tough love necessary to make them realize electing BQ candidates won't help them as a pressure tactic.

Shall we call it the Lord Durham method?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by whatnext

What's needed is a federal government that wins a majority with little help from Quebec. Then give them the tough love necessary to make them realize electing BQ candidates won't help them as a pressure tactic.

Looks like what's coming - except for the "tough love" part.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Un discours très démagogique, as we would say here. Caresser les électeurs dans le sens du poil... Telling Québécois what they want to hear, and telling ROCers another thing they want to hear. These sorts of politicians profoundly disgust me. Macron is a typical one, telling each audience what they want to hear ("French colonialism was a crime against humanity" to voters of Algerian descent; "we accomplished some great things in Algeria" to voters of Pied-Noir descent).

Not sure what you're yammering about. Poilievre's message of smaller federal government and greater provincial autonomy is pretty consistent across Quebec and English Canada.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Not sure what you're yammering about. Poilievre's message of smaller federal government and greater provincial autonomy is pretty consistent across Quebec and English Canada.

"Le QC sera beaucoup plus fort quand je serai premier ministre." I don't suppose he says that when he is in the rest of Canada, does he?

It would be quite different if he said "Le Canada sera beaucoup plus fort..." or "Toutes les provinces seront beaucoup plus fortes..."

What I see here is just some demagoguery addressed to a specific section of voters (Québécois voters in this case). I hate this segmentation of the electorate, which is typical of many politicians these days.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

"Le QC sera beaucoup plus fort quand je serai premier ministre." I don't suppose he says that when he is in the rest of Canada, does he?

It would be quite different if he said "Le Canada sera beaucoup plus fort..." or "Toutes les provinces seront beaucoup plus fortes..."

What I see here is just some demagoguery addressed to a specific section of voters (Québécois voters in this case). I hate this segmentation of the electorate, which is typical of many politicians these days.

It's a TV show addressed to Quebecois. Of course it's going to be focused on talking about Quebec. Why would other provinces be mentioned?

Media discourse in Quebec just doesn't focus much on the ROC, and all federal politicans know that.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

"Le QC sera beaucoup plus fort quand je serai premier ministre." I don't suppose he says that when he is in the rest of Canada, does he?

It would be quite different if he said "Le Canada sera beaucoup plus fort..." or "Toutes les provinces seront beaucoup plus fortes..."

What I see here is just some demagoguery addressed to a specific section of voters (Québécois voters in this case). I hate this segmentation of the electorate, which is typical of many politicians these days.

You seem very out of touch with Canadian and Quebec political discourse.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Wouldn't be the first time the Conservatives have tried this.

Stephen Harper did, and Chantal Hébert even wrote a book about it.

https://www.amazon.ca/French-Kiss-Stephen-Harpers-Quebec/dp/0676979084

For some reason, Québécois never bite.

On the ground, I find the biggest hesitation to vote Conservative is Quebecois' general allergy to voting for a pro-O&G resource extraction party, which doesn't fit with Quebec's vision for a green economy. It's probably why even Legault banned fracking and continues to fight pipelines, despite his generally pro-business premiership.

[harls]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

You seem very out of touch with Canadian and Quebec political discourse.

You mean you don't you like being told how things are where you live, too?

[Architype]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

On the ground, I find the biggest hesitation to vote Conservative is Quebecois' general allergy to voting for a pro-O&G resource extraction party, which doesn't fit with Quebec's vision for a green economy. It's probably why even Legault banned fracking and continues to fight pipelines, despite his generally pro-business premiership.

Isn't the simple explanation for that the fact that Quebec does not have any such resources for themselves, and if they did, they would see it otherwise? Hydro projects are not the best thing for the environment either. We all know the lesser evil is still kind of evil.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Architype

Isn't the simple explanation for that the fact that Quebec does not have any such resources for themselves, and if they did, they would see it otherwise? Hydro projects are not the best thing for the environment either. We all know the lesser evil is still kind of evil.

Nope. Quebec has sizable shale gas reserves, but every Quebec government of all stripes has banned shale fracking and offshore O&G exploration. This is a red line for Quebecois voters.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

"Le QC sera beaucoup plus fort quand je serai premier ministre." I don't suppose he says that when he is in the rest of Canada, does he?

It would be quite different if he said "Le Canada sera beaucoup plus fort..." or "Toutes les provinces seront beaucoup plus fortes..."

It’s kind of implied that “[Enter Your Own Province Here] will be stronger when I’ll be PM” since he’ll stop trying to abuse Federal powers and step into provincial jurisdiction all the time, while also thinning the Fed apparatus. Every single province will be stronger and Ottawa will be weaker.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Nope. Quebec has sizable shale gas reserves, but every Quebec government of all stripes has banned shale fracking and offshore O&G exploration. This is a red line for Quebecois voters.

Other provinces, much of Europe, and a few enlightened states have banned it too; this kind of development is more contentious than many other forms of petroleum extraction. Hydro projects are much more important to Quebec, but they are also injurious to the environment. These are unlikely to face any political challenges because Quebec is really dependent on them.

[Acajack]

In 2011 Stephen Harper won a majority with 166 seats and almost none (5) in Québec.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Cancelling the GST is bordering fantasy. It's just not going to happen given the state of finances. At most Poilievre can afford to cut income tax rates.

The daycare agreement mainly impacts provinces outside of Quebec, so not sure why Quebec would have a bigger tax room to fill than other provinces.

I doubt slashing CCB is in the cards either, but I could see a Conservative government severely restricting NPRs and recent questionable PRs from applying for CCB, which would help protect the program from abuse.

Not sure what small buisness support Quebec is disproportionately benefiting from...

Well if PP is simply going to tinker yes there won't be room for huge tax cuts and his claim to make government smaller for Quebec will be symbolic.

Quebec gets a huge amount of money from the daycare deal. It is neutral for Quebecers but it frees up room in the budget for Quebec. I am not saying they get a disproportiane share. The point is if Polievre is going to cut $50 Billion+ from the budget (that barely covers GST revenue) and Quebec has now more freedom to tailor its own programs that isn't really going to work nor give Quebec some kind of power. Quebec is poorer than the rest of Canada so equalization aside it benefits more than it pays in most taxes so would be worse off with massive cuts and tax cuts not better off. But under Ford Ontario is likely to not try and replace any of these programs so the divergence from Quebec is they tried to would be substantial.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Well if PP is simply going to tinker yes there won't be room for huge tax cuts and his claim to make government smaller for Quebec will be symbolic.

Quebec gets a huge amount of money from the daycare deal. It is neutral for Quebecers but it frees up room in the budget for Quebec. I am not saying they get a disproportiane share. The point is if Polievre is going to cut $50 Billion+ from the budget (that barely covers GST revenue) and Quebec has now more freedom to tailor its own programs that isn't really going to work nor give Quebec some kind of power. Quebec is poorer than the rest of Canada so equalization aside it benefits more than it pays in most taxes so would be worse off with massive cuts and tax cuts not better off. But under Ford Ontario is likely to not try and replace any of these programs so the divergence from Quebec is they tried to would be substantial.

I don't know if this would in fact be "it" but a big topic of discussion in Ottawa-Quebec relations has been the transfer of tax points (point d'impôts) from Ottawa to Quebec. The idea being that Ottawa frees up X% and then Quebec takes up the same % and can use it for its own priorities, and the effect on the Quebec taxpayer is nil.

Another hot topic has always been "dédoublement", so basically areas where both Ottawa and Quebec are involved, which increases costs in addition to jurisdictional overlap.

I know that the Ottawa and ROC reaction is generally to say "why doesn't Quebec just let Ottawa do it, and mind its own business", but generally speaking the consensus in Quebec (political and public opinion) is that people want Quebec to take care of most of these items.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by harls

You mean you don't you like being told how things are where you live, too?

I don't like it either.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Well if PP is simply going to tinker yes there won't be room for huge tax cuts and his claim to make government smaller for Quebec will be symbolic.

Quebec gets a huge amount of money from the daycare deal. It is neutral for Quebecers but it frees up room in the budget for Quebec. I am not saying they get a disproportiane share. The point is if Polievre is going to cut $50 Billion+ from the budget (that barely covers GST revenue) and Quebec has now more freedom to tailor its own programs that isn't really going to work nor give Quebec some kind of power. Quebec is poorer than the rest of Canada so equalization aside it benefits more than it pays in most taxes so would be worse off with massive cuts and tax cuts not better off. But under Ford Ontario is likely to not try and replace any of these programs so the divergence from Quebec is they tried to would be substantial.

Your hypothetical literally has no chance of happening, especially if Trumps forces Canada's hand in meeting the NATO defence spending target of 2%. Not sure why we're dwelling in the realm of fantasy.

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't know if this would in fact be "it" but a big topic of discussion in Ottawa-Quebec relations has been the transfer of tax points (point d'impôts) from Ottawa to Quebec. The idea being that Ottawa frees up X% and then Quebec takes up the same % and can use it for its own priorities, and the effect on the Quebec taxpayer is nil.

Agreed. At the end of the day there's only one taxpayer, and the federal government has the obligation to give those tax points it doesn't need to the provinces, and not suck up all the energy (and money) in the room. The federal government should be forced to stay in its own lane, focus on perfecting its own competencies (i.e. border security, foreign affairs, defence, interstate commerce) and not butt into provincial jurisdiction.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Agreed. At the end of the day there's only one taxpayer, and the federal government has the obligation to give those tax points it doesn't need to the provinces, and not suck up all the energy (and money) in the room. The federal government should be forced to stay in its own lane, focus on perfecting its own competencies (i.e. border security, foreign affairs, defence, interstate commerce) and not butt into provincial jurisdiction.

In fairness the Quebec government doesn't always stay in its lane either.

But Ottawa does have a tendency to be a control freak, especially under Liberal governments and especially as regards Quebec.